SOPRANOS Season 6: Season Finally!!!.. Episode 12: "KAISHA" - Page 29

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Some interesting music in this week's episode (#10: Moe n' Joe). It contained "Salvation" by Little Steven (Van Zandt - Silvio) in the scene where Tony comes into the back room of the Bada Bing, and Chuck Berry's "Let It Rock" ended the show.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

All complaints aside, tell me you didnt LOL when Vito said "I love you..Johnny Cakes."

haha.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

And if the "punchline" to the Vito story isn't very good then people will have a right to say the storyline was disappointing. I was just pointing out how absurd it is to start bitching about the joke not being funny when we haven't even heard the punchline.

Allen:

Yeah - the prison/code scene was a scream.

And apropos of absolutely nothing, I'd like to mention that the book the fireman was reading, The Devil in the White City by Erik Larsen, is a very good read. It tells the story of America's first documented serial killer against the background of the 1893 World's Fair. It also includes a compact but very interesting account of the Great Chicago Fire, which in many ways inspired the city's determination to win that year's Fair from the competing city of New York in order to show that Chicago was still in business.

Regards,

Joe

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Well, I'm glad the show in its current form is still working for you, but as I said before I don't think it is anywhere near the level of quality that seasons 1 and 2 were. Those were perhaps the two finest seasons of any television show EVER when the show had great characters like Big Pussy, Richie Aprille, Mikey Palmice, etc. I just can't get into the whole Vito storyline and no matter what the payoff ends up being I think the show has spent far too much time focusing on him. I realize that the show was never "all about the mafia", but there was a lot more time spent on that aspect of the life in previous seasons than there is now and I think the show has suffered because of it. There is way too much of a "soap opera" feel to the show these days which is a stark contrast to the first couple of seasons which were more like a televison version of GoodFellas. That's the show I fell in love with and the show that I miss now when I watch The Sopranos. As I said before, I'll follow it all the way to the end, but it's no longer my favorite show on TV: that honor now belongs to The Shield.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

"It's overshadowing the other parts of the season which I enjoy."

I agree. This Vito thing has taken way too much time.


"Some of us are actually interested in the supporing players and don't mind that they maybe get the spotlight for an episode or two in six years"

Yea but wouldnt you rather see how Phil is sneaking around quietly taking NY away from Johnny S behind his back, or what sort of backlash theres been about Rusty getting whacked or how Carlo is handling his new responsiblity,being made a capt after whats nis name hung himself?

Vito just inst interesting enough to give him so such time. Even Artie is more interesting and I liked the show they did on him this season, though most here didnt.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

I would. Phil and Johnny Sack are two of the best characters on the show and they've hardly been given any time at all this season because of all the time spent on Vito. A big mistake IMHO.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

My wife and both said, "Hey!" and pointed at the same time. Great book.

I'm glad Vito's back in Jersey and really tired of all this Lifetime-movie-touchy-feely-get-in-touch-with-your-emotions stuff.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

We don't know how the Vito storyline will play out, but it's getting more interesting now that he's returned. I think he will head back North (there's those scenes they shot near the Mass Turnpike).

Did anyone catch when they had Vito and "Johnnycakes" in bed and they cut to the scene with Bobby's model train entering the tunnel. Had to chuckle at that.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

First use of the "train into the tunnel" sexual imagery was North by Northwest, that I know of (and I know Hitchcock was pleased that they slipped that one by the censors).

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Right on!

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

i believe silent films were utilizing that already.


re: Vito storyline, doesn't it remind you of six feet under w/David's story. that was kinda' weird .

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

for the same reason Vito went hightailing it back to Jersey in this episode. these guys just aren't cut out to make it in the 9-5 world. they don't want to put in the effort and sacrifice it takes to make it successfully in a legit business. the frustration of not having money to spend on frivolous and luxury items, and the lure of the easy money to be had from the old lifestyle is just too great for them. as well as not having to answer to anyone, to not have anyone bossing them around. sure, there's the mob hierarchy, and they do have to be money earners for the bosses, but it's a different sort of relationship.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Well, Six Feet Under may be where Vito winds up...

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

ya think those kids that attacked the conductor will get capped?

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

You mean the "unidentified black males"?
I wonder what Tony thought when Bobby told him that it was black guys that did that to him?

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

it seems that there are so many things that happen in the newer seasons of the sopranos that would have warranted retaliation in a regular mob movie =). in this case, for the sake of its own stupified "reality" nothing is done about it, thus leaving behind the classical form of storytelling.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

What can they do? Hope that Bobby can ID the kids that he saw for 10 seconds when they robbed him? Kill every young black male in Newark in retaliation for Bobby being where he shouldn't have been (to paraphrase Tony)? It has nothing to do with 'classical forms of storytelling' or 'reality', there's no way to retaliate.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

if you've been reading the thread, it has everything 2 do with classical forms of storytelling. chase wants a verite so truthful that the universe of the sopranos is MORE real than real life itself. even in reality, the guy probably would've utilized all of his mafia resources to track down the kid. it's not impossible with the resources+money if he was vengeful enough.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

How exactly would they track them down? I guess nothing is impossible but it would be as close to impossible as it gets to find the specific kids that robbed Bobby in a section of Newark where "the police don't even go to anymore". And Tony more or less said that he didn't really care and that it was Bobby's fault for being there so he wouldn't spend the time, money, or energy on it and Bobby doesn't have any of those resources.

But he wasn't.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Ok, I'll tell you, I wasn't laughing. I was groaning and remarking to my wife that this kind of line is "jump the shark" material. I'm not saying that the Sopranos have jumped, just that the fins become more visible everytime Vito comes on screen.

We still haven't heard the 3rd verse of "The Three Bells" of which the first two verses played prominent roles early in the season. I keep hoping I hear it during a Vito scene because when it does play, it will likely mean the end of Vito (given the text of the last verse).

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

I'm curious. Let's say Chase followed your advice and had Bobby, or Tony, go after the kids that attacked Bobby. What's the point? What does that show us? What further insight does it give us into these characters?

If all Chase did with The Sopranos was give us the same tired plot, over and over—which you point out, practically every other mob-related movie has already done—I would have preferred he ended the show long ago.

What you propose is not a classic form of story-telling. It's a classic story. One we've already seen, over and over again. Instead we're seeing something new—for this universe anyway—a crew of bloodthirsty thugs, on the decline, whose muscle and influence aren't what they used to be.

Much more interesting than just watching people being savagely beaten to show us how dangerous the Soprano crew are. We know that already & frankly I don't need to repeat it just because it follows some archetype, or simply for the sake gratuitous violence.

I guess Chase just isn't telling a story you're interested in watching.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Yet they keep on watching. I just don't get it.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

Not for long, or at least, not without the same excitement as in years past. I haven't been excited to see an episode of the Sopranos since the start of S4. Now I watch it because nothing better is on and am hoping that the show will be exceptional once again.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

I couldn't agree more. I've been on board with this show since the beginning and it's almost painful watching some of these episodes now. The show used to be the best thing on TV without question, but now it's just slightly above average at best. I watch because I still find the acting of Gandolfini and Imperioli to be top-notch, but beyond them I really can't say I care about anyone else on the show. Two of the very best characters(Johnny Sack and Phil Leotardo) are relegated to the background and hardly given any screen time while at least 3 entire episodes have focused on Gay Vito and his exploits. I'm beginning to wish Chase had just done a regular 13 episode season instead of breaking it up with 12 now and 8 next year. It's like he doesn't have enough material for all 20 episodes and what we're getting stuck with now is pure filler. I'm sure there will be another brilliant episode or two before the show ends its run, but now it's almost a case of too little too late.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

again, read what i've already written.

what's that old saying about how there's only x # of stories being told. it isn't the stories themselves, even these stories chase is doing are passe. it's HOW you tell the stories that make a diff and HOW he's doing it is failing big time compared to s1&2.

a classical story would be one of those good ole' revege tale of bobby taking on the world, etc. when you go classic, you gain more insights into characters than avante garde/experimental. sopranos started experimenting beginning with s3 onwards. even s1's bonus/extra interview gives us insight about how chase thinks. he wants to create an alternate reality of characters and how they interact with their dreams expressed or not. that's why the theme of dreams began to take over the show.

it ain't about what i think or he thinks. it's just everyone enjoys a classically told story. that's why people keep liking star wars, greek tragedies, shakespeares, etc.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

The coming attractions at the end of each episode always look
better than the shows themselves. Every week we see some greatly
produced trailers with lots of action and the "tease" that someone
is going to get whacked.

But then....

"I love you Johnny Cakes"

Blecchh!

I know most of you don't agree, but in my opinion, this has been a
seriously disappointing season of THE SOPRANOS.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

I have, but I'm afraid it doesn't become any clearer or more persuasive with repeated readings.

You've arbitrarily divided all "stories" into categories you call "classical" and "avant garde/experimental", haven't adequately explained what you mean by either (or rather, what you think you mean, since there is no way that all stories can, in fact, be reduced to only these two categories) and then complain when people don't understand your posts?

It seems to me that a large part of your problem with the show is that you are trying to shoe-horn what Chase is actually doing into your theorectical framework of what constitutes "story" and are therefore spectacularly missing the point - as most people who start with a theory and then try to fit the world into it, rather than the other way around, do.


Again, this is purely a matter of opinion. I cheerfully loathe both Phil and Johnny, especially Phil, and they can't get off the screen soon enough to suit me. I'd be more than happy to see them both whacked. I actually find Vito's situation interesting and unusual, as it opens up another window into the world of the Mob.

But, NOOOooh, we can't have that. Let's have another scene with some tough guys cussing each other out to prove how tough they are, then brutally killing somebody. Because we never see that on TV or in movies.

That the Vito thing was partly inspired by real events (there's an off-Broadway show now running about a real cross-dressing mobster from the 1960s who even got the mob invested in several gay bars) just makes it more interesting to me.

Regards,

Joe

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

I think the fact that he doesn't get some sort of revenge and basically just takes it is what Chase is trying to convey. What have we seen from this character this season, Tony rags on him and disrespects him. His wife and kids are overbearing and give him no respect. He tried to earn a few extra bucks by shooting the rapper and screwed that up. Now to add the most insult Bobby gets attacked by some kids and may lose his eye. I can maybe see some things happening for Bobby Bacala before the end.

Re: SOPRANOS Season 6: New this week.. Episode 9: "The Ride"

I agree completely. Wasn't the whole point of not getting revenge to demonstrate that Tony has repressed feelings and a grudge against Janice? On the one hand, you have Vito shoot a guy in the back because Vito hit his car while driving drunk. These guys shoot people for nothing. But then you have a guy who is supposed to be under Tony's protection, not to mention part of Tony's real family by marriage, get shot while on company business and Tony can't even be bothered to visit him in the hospital, let alone go after the guys who tried to kill him.

More to the point, Tony even knows from his session with Melfi that he is acting the way he is because of his feelings about Janice, but he still can't bring himself to look after Bobby. All the looks among the crew when they were talking about Bobby and Tony was saying "he shouldn't have been there" while taking the envelope of cash that Bobby still managed to hand up were interesting. This was quite the different reaction from when Christopher got shot, or when they were looking for Jackie Jr. for shooting Furio and robbing the card game. They turned over every stone. Granted, they knew who they were looking for, but here there was no mention of doing anything because of Tony's feelings about Janice. That was the point.