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SOPRANOS Season 6: Season Finally!!!.. Episode 12: "KAISHA" - Page 20

post #571 of 1093
4/10/06 at 8:47pm
Quote:
I do agree with the fight in the dog bit; Tony wanted the fight, the other guy didn't. But also I think the bodyguard knew that firing back a few shots would be like signing his death certificate.
Exactly. And everyone in that room knew that as well. The looks on their faces weren't, "Hey, the old Tony's back!"...It was more, "Holy crap...Tony's completely lost it."
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post #572 of 1093
4/10/06 at 9:29pm
" I dont know shit about doctorin' and I think I can surmise throwing up blood is a bad sign."

Bad yes, but I didnt know it meant a return to the hospital and a possible serious threat of death.
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post #573 of 1093
4/10/06 at 10:11pm
merecy f was an awesome line! =). his libido hasn't gone away.

what do you think of that throwing up biz was all about? do you think it was physical body of saying that the mafia life just isn't "him". that that guy in his dream/purgatory is the goal? it's interesting new development in his psyche.
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post #574 of 1093
4/11/06 at 4:32am
Are we sure it was blood he was throwing up? Looked more yellowish/orange liquid than red blood.

Btw, I don't think Vito killed himself since if he did, he would have been discovered within a day at the motel
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
and next weeks preview states he hasn't been heard from in days.
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post #575 of 1093
4/11/06 at 5:30am
Quote:
Are we sure it was blood he was throwing up?
It looked red to me. Either way, I doubt it's important to the show. It was supposed to show that it was a strain on him but he was able to kick some ass and show he wasn't weak.

In reality, if someone puked up blood after getting shot in the gut, I'm sure they'd be going back to the hospital but this is TV so Tony will not have any problems from this.
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post #576 of 1093
4/11/06 at 5:41am
On Vito:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Joe Gannascoli was on NFL Radio yesterday (don't ask me why, but NFL Radio has him on every Monday and they DON'T talk about the NFL), and he said he has a major role this week, so I assume that means he's not dead (yet).
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post #577 of 1093
4/11/06 at 5:51am
Quote:
Are we sure it was blood he was throwing up? Looked more yellowish/orange liquid than red blood.

Maybe it was red sauce from Artie's restaurant.
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post #578 of 1093
4/11/06 at 5:57am
nah, I don't think we will see Tony go back to the hospital this season.
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post #579 of 1093
4/11/06 at 6:22am
This is not like 24, he can always go to the hospital off-screen. I loved the last two episodes!

Bart
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post #580 of 1093
4/11/06 at 7:08am
Since someone brought up the wedding scenes being way too long...

Did anyone else get the feeling SOMEONE (I thought Johnny Sac) was going to get whacked there at the end when the married couple was leaving...?

It just seemed like they were setting that up...

Meh...lol...me thinking out "loud" again...
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post #581 of 1093
4/11/06 at 7:54am
Quote:
I do agree with the fight in the dog bit; Tony wanted the fight, the other guy didn't. But also I think the bodyguard knew that firing back a few shots would be like signing his death certificate.


I disagree that the bodyguard was holding back. The scene with the landscapers was to show that this guy cannot control himself if provoked. Tony provoked him and the driver had a look on his face just before Tony hit him the second time that showed he had lost it and was coming after Tony. Now, I'm not sure that it changed anything for the other guys in the room. They didn't know "Penne Arrabiata" was crazy enough to really go after Tony. It was just the audience that knew.

I'm also not reading as deeply into whether Tony lost control. I think seeing Phil criticizing John, having Chris challenge his decisions, and talking to Melfi about it was just the set up for him attacking Penne. Not to mention all the talk about whacking capo level guys. He felt it needed to be done to establish that he was back and took care of business. BTW, the shots around the room of the biceps reminded me of the scene from a season or two past where Tony realizes that everyone of his guys laughs at his jokes, not because they think he's funny, but because he is the boss. So he doesn't trust them. He had to establish that he was back to earn their respect, since he still can't trust them to be loyal.
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post #582 of 1093
4/11/06 at 8:38am
Charlie a very good analysis and right on the money, especially remembering the Joke shot. I'm gonna have to go back after this season is over and rewatch S1-4
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post #583 of 1093
4/11/06 at 9:56am
I don't think anyone got whacked during this episode, which is unfortunate. I was so hoping that the dude who kept singing that annoying song during the cake cutting scene would get his head blown off. Chris should have walked up, shot him in the head, and said "Heigh ho that one, f&^%#r!"
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post #584 of 1093
4/11/06 at 9:57am
Quote:
I disagree that the bodyguard was holding back. The scene with the landscapers was to show that this guy cannot control himself if provoked. Tony provoked him and the driver had a look on his face just before Tony hit him the second time that showed he had lost it and was coming after Tony. Now, I'm not sure that it changed anything for the other guys in the room. They didn't know "Penne Arrabiata" was crazy enough to really go after Tony. It was just the audience that knew.
I think he counted to 10 though.
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post #585 of 1093
4/11/06 at 10:00am
Thread Starter 
Anyone see the Vito Yahoo story? Very interesting considering the actor is the one that came up with the whole gay vito thing. Very self promoting, kudos
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post #586 of 1093
4/11/06 at 10:11am
Bodybuilder or not, getting suckerpunched in the nose will stun anyone.
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post #587 of 1093
4/11/06 at 11:00am
Quote:
Bodybuilder or not, getting suckerpunched in the nose will stun anyone.


Hard to call that a suckerpunch. Anybody with half a brain should have known that it was coming no matter how hard he pleaded his case.

I also don't think for a second that the bodyguard held back at all. He showed earlier that he can't hold back and after being socked in the nose I'm sure his 'roid rage was in full effect.

I think that the crew were thinking "Holy S**t! What the f**k just happened?" at first, but I'm pretty sure they weren't thinking that Tony has weakened or is losing it.
They may know why Tony did it, but I don't think that detracts from the end result of Tony reestablishing himself as the Alpha male.



On a whole other line of thinking. Why was Silvio automatically considered the Skip when Tony was in the hospital? Isn't he Tony's consiglieri, not the underboss?
Also, who is the underboss? There doesn't seem to be one. Just a lot of Capo's.
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post #588 of 1093
4/11/06 at 11:08am
Quote:
Hard to call that a suckerpunch. Anybody with half a brain should have known that it was coming no matter how hard he pleaded his case.


Well, for one, he does have half a brain, but everyone involved was shocked and surprised that Tony punched him for seemingly no reason. Tony had established himself as calm and rational lately, so even with the buildup, his punch would still be in the realm of surprise.
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post #589 of 1093
4/11/06 at 11:22am
Technically Isn't Tony in Title still the Underboss? They made Junior Figurhead Boss of the Family, to take the fall, and I don't think that was ever disputed. Now eveyone knows tony is the BOSS but for the sake of the Govt isn't Junior still the Head of the Soprano Family
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post #590 of 1093
4/11/06 at 2:36pm
I always thought Hesh to be the consigliari. I think Junior is the Boss as far as the FBI knows...
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post #591 of 1093
4/11/06 at 2:55pm
Quote:
I disagree that the bodyguard was holding back. The scene with the landscapers was to show that this guy cannot control himself if provoked.

I understand this line of thinking, but I also think that even a muscle-bound hothead like Tony's driver also understands the difference between roughing up some random garbage truck drivers when they cut you off and fighting back against your boss, who also -- by the way -- is the local Mafia boss.

My interpretation of that scene is that the crew saw through Tony's feeble attempt to re-assert himself by roughing up the driver for no reason.

On a side note, I thought that this scene was particularly sad in that it was clear that Tony had taken a shine to his new driver. Notice that at the end of the scene with the garbage truck drivers, when he mentioned how "Mama tells me to count to 10...," Tony looks over at him slightly amused and proud.
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post #592 of 1093
4/11/06 at 3:33pm
On a side note, I thought that this scene was particularly sad in that it was clear that Tony had taken a shine to his new driver. Notice that at the end of the scene with the garbage truck drivers, when he mentioned how "Mama tells me to count to 10...," Tony looks over at him slightly amused and proud.


Yep, that was the "new" Tony, interacting with his new driver/bodyguard. The "old" Tony had to beat the crap out of him b/c he happened to have the biggest biceps in the room.

It's also interesting that Tony was following Dr. Melfi's advice to reassert his alpha male by picking the fight. But almost all of us saw the reaction of the rest of the family in that room as "wow, Tony's REALLY lost it", NOT as, "thank god, Tony the boss is BACK".

In other words, Tony's execution of Melfi's advice looks like it could well backfire.
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post #593 of 1093
4/11/06 at 5:05pm
It's open to interpretation but I think some of you guys overestimate the intelligence of Tony's crew. They saw their boss beat the piss out of a huge muscle bound guy on his second or so day back at work after being recently shot, comatose and suffering cardiac arrest. He might have looked nutty for picking a fight but he didn't look weak (and that's exactly what he was trying to show).
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post #594 of 1093
4/11/06 at 6:42pm
Quote:
It's open to interpretation but I think some of you guys overestimate the intelligence of Tony's crew. They saw their boss beat the piss out of a huge muscle bound guy on his second or so day back at work after being recently shot, comatose and suffering cardiac arrest. He might have looked nutty for picking a fight but he didn't look weak (and that's exactly what he was trying to show).


Exactly what I was thinking.
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post #595 of 1093
4/11/06 at 8:02pm
Quote:
I always thought Hesh to be the consigliari. I think Junior is the Boss as far as the FBI knows...

Silvio has referred himself as the consigliere in the past. I'm not up on my mafia lingo, but isn't there a special term for a Jewish advisor, which would apply to Hesh?

Speaking of Silvio, was anyone else surprised he sleeps with his rug on? There probably isn't enough money to pay Van Zandt to appear sans hair

Quote:
It's open to interpretation

That's what I love about this show, you can watch with a group of people and they all can come away with a different take on what happened and why it happened.

Quote:
nah, I don't think we will see Tony go back to the hospital this season

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Wasn't there a news story awhile back that the Sopranos crew was seen filming exteriors at a hospital to be used for the final batch of episodes? It might even be in the early pages of this thread. Maybe it won't be Tony, but his health will continue to be a major factor.
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post #596 of 1093
4/11/06 at 11:39pm
Speaking of Van Zandt, that was his daughter that played Allegra Sacrimoni.
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post #597 of 1093
4/12/06 at 4:35am
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Speaking of Van Zandt, that was his daughter that played Allegra Sacrimoni.


Really? I wasn't even aware he had a daughter. I couldn't find a credits list on the HBO site. What's her name?
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post #598 of 1093
4/12/06 at 6:54am
Quote:
It's open to interpretation but I think some of you guys overestimate the intelligence of Tony's crew. They saw their boss beat the piss out of a huge muscle bound guy on his second or so day back at work after being recently shot, comatose and suffering cardiac arrest. He might have looked nutty for picking a fight but he didn't look weak (and that's exactly what he was trying to show).

That's true.

I guess another way to think about it is that Tony WANTED his crew to be confused by his actions.

They needed to know that he NOT ONLY had his strength back, but he could ALSO erupt at any time for NO REASON. That way, they would think twice about questioning anything he says...

Either way... good stuff...

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post #599 of 1093
4/12/06 at 7:19am
Don't make too much out of Tony erupting being out of character. It's pretty consistent for that crew. Wasn't it Gino who beat the crap out of the guy at the construction site in front of Finn when they were just sitting around ripping on each other? There has been tons of what would be characterized as unprovoked violence on other series but is entirely consistent with this series. Remember, Chris and Paulie didn't even blink when they killed the waiter in Atlantic City when they were fighting over the check. Tony ran Phil Leotardo's car into a truck because he felt Phil was ducking him on his share of the racetrack sale. It may be a little out of character for Tony as this was much less of a provocation, but it's not a real stretch. It's also not out of character for the crew, so they probably aren't as shocked as others would be. They needed to be shown that Tony was still strong, and that's what they got.
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post #600 of 1093
4/12/06 at 10:05am
Quote:
Really? I wasn't even aware he had a daughter. I couldn't find a credits list on the HBO site. What's her name?


Her name is Caitlin Van Zandt.

Here is her IMDB page
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