Extreme F650 Ford Pick-up! - Page 2  

Wow so all people who own suv's don't need them, drive unsafely, and have small members????

nice,

I would love to live in a place where I can walk to the grocery store, never have to transport anything, never have to go places that a small car CAN'T get to, always have good weather and well tended roads...

I have driven SUV's for over a decade. I have never gotten close to tipping it over. I have never been in an accident with it. Never spun out or squealed the tires. I have never even gotten a speeding ticket with one. To 3 or 4 of you that makes me extremely lucky since because I own an SUV I am somehow irresponsible.

How about I decide what you "need" based on where I lived? You don't need that theater room, big screen tv, dvd player, and soundsystem. What a waste. You could use the theater room to house a homeless family, spend the money on equipment and software to feed the hungry.

Sure I would like better gas milage but other considerations take have to take precidance.

You make your decisions and that is fine but to call me some sort of irresponsible monster because of the vehicle I drive? What the hell is wrong with you?

My suv is no "safer" than any other vehicle on the road. It does handle winter weather conditions very well, with proper driving techniques. It gets me to where I need to go and lets me take the stuff I need when I get there.

You do not know me, what I do, and or what I need but your generalizations make me sick.

That comment is right on the money.



On the mark again! Thats why I drive like Im in a Thanksgiving day parade. :laughs:



3 in a row! Well said Mark. Thats what I was getting at myself. Some people have no idea some cars have to be driven differently. Blows my mind to see someone cutting in and out of traffic in a Expedition on 24'' low-profile tires. They have no idea how dangerous that is, or they just dont care. Totaly ruins it for everyone else.

I caught that episode as well. I think the caution was given based on the nature of the track rather than the suv. Not to mention they were probably running bone stock tires which are not meant for that kind of pavement or driving. Not to say they corner very well, just that under those conditions it was even worse.

They really should be much harder on reckless drivers. And first time applicants should go through hell to get thier license. Classes on defensive driving, obstacle courses the whole nine. And no one should get thier license before they reach 21. Any younger than that should only be to get you to work or school. No joyriding, just to get you where you have to go. Maybe even a curfue. I realize that sounds harsh, but Ive been there, Ive had a couple of accidents in my younger days that I couldve avoided. Kids are stupid these days. I wouldve hated such laws at that age but they would save some lives. Not to mention teach people that driving is a privlage. Be resposible or loose it.

Nice to see we pretty much got this discussion wrapped.Its been a pleasure. Now if only all discusions on the net went this smooth.


Later,

Luis S

Interesting arguments back and forth.

Will chime in here a little bit as I drive a Mini Cooper and am 6'7".
When I was looking for a car about 1 1/2 years ago I looked at a lot of cars and SUV's in my price range. Being tall comfort is a major issue that is hard to find at certain price points. Looked at the Nissan Xterra, Jeep Liberty and Pontiac Vibe ... small SUV's but SUV's nonetheless. Guess what? I could not fit properly in any of them. Heck I even tried to sit in a H2 at the NY Car Show last spring and found it tight with very little headroom.

Believe it or not the Mini Cooper has more room for drivers that all those cars above. Airbags everywhere that actually envelop you as if you were in a womb and a 4 star crash rating.

On the Mini Forums that I frequent there have been 2 big accidents recently involving Coopers and Suv's .. in both instances, the Cooper was thrashed but the passangers literally walked away unharmed, while the SUV's were in better shape but the drivers legs were crushed.

One of the main things like Mark said is Accident Avoidance ... and the false confidence an SUV gives you is one of the most dangerous things on the road.

I go to lunch with a co-worker a lot and when we are in her SUV, she drives crazy, but it doesn't seem as scary because you are above everyone. She'll do a crazy move and I'll cringe and she'll be like "what's wrong" - not realizing that she has no idea how horrible her driving is to the other "cars" on the road. Since I can associate with the cars she drives near, I can feel how dangerous her driving is, even though you don't feel it when you are in the truck. There's something about being above everyone and the roominess that pulls you away from the road (ie. it separates you from any sense of danger) - You feel this "danger" more in a car because you are closer to the actions of the other drivers. I can believe that. I worked with a guy who was over 6' (300+ pounds) - a giant of a man, and he drove a VW Vetta because that was the only car he could properly fit into. I tell you, those Germans sure know how to make cars for the Big & Tall

ps. have you seen the VW Bugs? They have SO much headroom that people look like little kids inside of them.

6"5" here and I drive an Echo HB, two door. More room in it than most every SUV I've sat in.

My thoughts are that it is socially irresponsible to have a SUV as your daily driver. The whole kids, groceries, safety, etc, just doesn't cut it, IMO. These are excuses that are symptoms of the problem. The problem being bad drivers. Deal with the problem and the symptoms will go away, eventually.



My Echo handles winter driving a-okay. I realize that in Denver, you probably have a fair amount of snow. I live in Edmonton so we can call that even. I've always thought the snow and winter argument was weak as any good driver can manage winters in almost any vehicle. I've done Edmonton winters in rear wheel sports cars, front wheel drives, and four wheel drives. The only thing the four wheel drives offers over the others is the ability to accelerate quickly. Not much of a concern to me. They all stop bad in snow.

How did my family ever make it without a SUV? I mean, my brother and I were huge kids, my parents are fairly tall, and we all managed in the two door chevrolet cavalier. You cannot tell me that lifestyles have changed so drastically that all we do these days is haul a shatload of stuff from one spot to another, and hence, the SUV is now mandatory.

SUV drivers are typically horrible. My experiences, my opinions, and shared by many. There are the exceptions, as Luis sounds to be an exception, but SUV drivers are horrible. I can generalize all I want as my personal experiences support my opinions, and it appears that I'm not the only one.

This is what I don't understand either.

I actually use my Cooper for my business also, and with the rear seats folded down I can sometimes take up to 40 packages to the Post Office no problem.

Also at other times, even with my height I had 3 other people in it comfortably.

Also last winter, which was a pretty bad one by NY standards, I did just fine with zero problems ... and I drive my car daily for about 30 miles all over the city.

Anyway, SUV's have their place, but in my opinion 80% of the people buy then for the false sense of security they believe it gives them.

The clarify, where I live, there is no need for an SUV. If you NEED a vehicle that can go places a car can't, then you shouldn't be driving that same vehicles in places an "off-road" vehilce shouldn't belong (like a curvy highway in rush hour traffic). Keep your "off-road" vehicle OFF THE ROAD!

My lifestyle is unlike anyone else on this board.

Aurel - I am glad that you can haul 40 packages in your Cooper. Try strapping on a set of 28 foot tipi poles to it and drive 600 miles. Or how about supplies for 12 days of primative camping twice a year add to that a 5 man drum, amp, speakers, chairs Northern Traditional dance outfits. How about loads of clothing/food donations to Red Shirt Table. I dare you to try it. Yea my "lifestyle" determines my choice of vehicle.


Jason - I would bet that Edmonton gets much more snow and cold than Denver. I also live outside of Denver The last major storm it took 4 days for the Colorado Deptment of Transportation to dig out my street. I would bet real money that Edmonton roads are worlds better in bad weather than they are here because your road crews are better prepaired. I was born in St Paul, grew up in South Dakota and the roads there are worlds better than here when it snows.

The reason I need an SUV is not for people but supplies and equipment. I sat in one of the new beatle's, nice car, great headroom, but essentialy useless for what I do.

So you have the right to call me a horrible driver and socialy irresponsible because I own an SUV? Every few months you people participate in an insulting witch hunt that I find extremely offensive, but since your "opinion" carries more weight than the facts of my life they must be valid right?

I do not look down on you people and call you names, make wild generalizations because of the vehicle you drive. I bet if I did for any reason I would be punted from this board before I knew what hit me.

You wana buy me that other vehicle there Mark?

What? No. Didn't think so.

I never did. If you re-read my posts, you will see that my "generalizations" are towards SUV owners in my area. I've even mentioned that I don't mean to generalize (according to my earlier post) and then continued on to talk about how CERTAIN peoples attitudes in this area are what anger me. Sorry if I grouped you into that, but I thought I made my rants apparently clear about the types of drivers I was referring to. Again, speaking for the people in MY area...Why should I suffer more dangerous conditions because they can't afford another car to make the roads safer? Please now. I never attacked you personally (I made generalized statements), so there's no need to talk down to us (in this thread).

You are welcome to argue your side (without treating each of us like you have). Luis made a case for "a-holes" who drive cars and I never took that as a direct slam against me. Just as I hope you would realize that, while you may be the minority of those who think SUV's are ok, the majority here believe (through facts and personal experiences) that SUV's aren't safe.

p.s. It's not meant to be some sort of personal vendetta. There's a REASON why so many people "witch hunt" SUV drivers. As Aurel mentioned, I'd agree that 80% of SUV drivers, shouldn't be driving them. Again, sorry if you have to suffer the backlash of those 80% by me generalizing, but I really think I have separated those people out by my other posts.


p.s.s. Just like someone who needs protective armour for their job or their hobby. That's fine if you need the protection, but don't go to the mall with that stuff on. Sure, it'll make you "safer", but it makes it more dangerous to those who are walking in the mall along side of you.

Like I said before, Sure, carrying a loaded gun with me, will make me safe, but imagine me bringing one to the mall??? Imagine, ANYONE being allowed to do so??

So if I say that people are stupid for carrying hand guns, that doesn't mean I am also referring to cops. What I mean is, not EVERYONE (going under the assumption that they'd be safer) should be allowed to carry a loaded hand gun.

But you continue to generalize, you even admit it.


Excuse me???? I am talking down to you? You and a couple others in this forum are blasting every SUV owner out there, becuase of personal opinion. This happens a couple times a year.

Ha Ha SUV owners are horrible drivers, SUV owners are making the road unsafe for me, HA HA SUV owners are rednecks. HA HA suv owners have small penises....

Since you feel right with making wildly extreme comparisons "SUV owners with guns", lets change SUV owners with Black people or Asian people. Your and others generalizations are attacks. And when looked at in that light are shown for the shallow, and needlessly hatefull and ignorant remarks that they are.

OH BTW around here people who think SUV's are neccesary are in the majority, puting your holier than thou attitudes in the distinct minority. What you fail to realize is that not everyone lives where you live, lives the life you live. There are different requirements that must be tended to.

I am sorry but this issue really gets under my skin. I have been silent for years on this, and just can't take it anymore.

I drive a '99 Durango (all 4750 glorious pounds of it) and I live in Mark's area. Not going to justify my reasons for owning it nor will I.

Now if he wants to complain about the racer-boy wanna bees going 100 mph on their crotch rockets on I-84, I'd jump all over that bandwagon.

Not all drivers are the same.

PS. What do you drive Mark?

Now that is something I can get behind, but I realise there is probably a good number of responsible motorcycle riders on this forum so I will not out of respect for them.

'Twas my point.

David, I do agree with you that everyone's needs are different and if I lived where you live in Colorado and needed an SUV or Truck for the things you do ... I would get one as well.

BUT I think you fail to realize that MOST people that buy these vehicles do not have the needs you do. You are in the small minority at this point. These vehicles WERE originally made for people like yourself that truely use them to their potential.

Anyway ... I don't think name calling is necessary. But I go from what I see in my own area as well. Heck even my very best friend bought a RAM 1500 pickup that he literally terrorizes the roads with and he managed to crash a few times already.

Agreed.

Then why all the name calling of people who drive SUV's?

Or is that right reserved only for some?

I was not the one calling SUV drivers "me", irresponsible and horrible drivers now was I Mark and Aurel?

Dave, I think you are taking this conversation a bit personally. We are generalizing here. I admit that most people have different needs than me and in Colorado people will need cars like this.

I am talking about people and drivers I see on a daily basis. Like for example why would someone need one in Manhattan, where even the newly opened Home Depot does not even carry lumber

Yes you are. Which is why people who drive SUV's and do not fit your generalizations are are taking your name calling personally. Get it???

I never said that of you. Even though I don't think any of them should be on the road, my anger (and name calling) has only been toward those who are "Irresponsible", "Wreckless", "Clueless", and "Ignorant" - If you don't fit this description, then my comments have not been directed at you.

Why is it that I can not express my anger about dangerous SUV's? If it seems like my comments are covering a large audience, then that's because there IS a large audience that falls under what I am discussing.

Again, if you are in that low percentage of safe SUV drivers, then PLEASE ignore my comments because they aren't directed at you, but unfortunately, there is the other LARGE % of those out there that DO fall under this category and is precisely why I express my anger. Dave, I understand your anger, but you are taking it out on the wrong people. Don't get mad at those who bash SUV drivers, because they are only expressing a common trend they experience, more often than they'd like to.

Instead, get angry at those who are making the SUV drivers look bad. They are the irresposible, ignorant, unsafe masses that are giving you all a bad name.

When you experiences 99 out of 100 bad SUV experiences on the road, you tend to lump that last person in the group. Sorry if I did that, but it's those other 99 people that BOIL my blood so much. So much, in fact, that I do lump the good ones in a "generalization". That's just how pissed off I am at these vehicles. I can not look at them anymore without thinking about the numerous times I've seen horrible things. Again, until you change the attitudes of a lot of these drivers, I am going to generalize and be against them no matter what.

Here's a general tip, and it's for everyone. When you find yourself "expressing anger" on HTF, you're probably wrong -- maybe not wrong in your views, but wrong in how you've chosen to conduct yourself. While the above quote is from one particular poster, there is more than one offender in this thread. Accordingly, the topic is now closed, and everyone can cool off while celebrating the New Year.

M.