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So is everyone watching Tora,Tora ,Tora tonight. It's Dec. 7th

post #1 of 33
12/7/04 at 10:19am
Thread Starter 
Just wondering. I almost put Pearl Harbor but I figured people would blast me for that. Just want to honor the memory of the day and the people who served. Im goofy like that.
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post #2 of 33
12/7/04 at 10:26am
You could also give THE FINAL COUNTDOWN a spin.
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post #3 of 33
12/7/04 at 11:07am
Thread Starter 
Got that too!
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post #4 of 33
12/7/04 at 11:10am
Quote:
I almost put Pearl Harbor


But you said you wanted to *honor* the memory of the people who served. . .
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post #5 of 33
12/7/04 at 11:22am
I'm watching a Tivo'd copy of Howard Hawks' "Air Force" from TCM the other night! Warner Brothers sure knew how to make their WW2 propaganda films entertaining back in the day. I had never seen this before, and watched the first 45 minutes last night. Arthur Kennedy looks like his breath must smell like baby formula in this one, although I guess he was in his late 20s at the time.

Regards,
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post #6 of 33
12/7/04 at 11:51am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
quote:
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I almost put Pearl Harbor
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But you said you wanted to *honor* the memory of the people who served. . .
I saw the wink but I think the actual attack scene was probably pretty realistic.
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post #7 of 33
12/7/04 at 11:55am
Well, okay guys.

I have come close to putting Tora, Tora, Tora in my collection....but it just hasn't happened yet. However, I do have the big Pearl Harbor release on my shelf....but haven't gotten around to viewing it yet.

Should I sit down with 14-year old son and give it a spin in honor of the holiday and all? I know reviews were pretty mixed. What I seem to remember is action movie fans thought there was too much romance. And romance fans thought there was too much action. Or, something like that.

*EDIT* I do have Final Countdown on the shelf and haven't viewed that one yet, either! :b
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post #8 of 33
12/7/04 at 12:01pm
Quote:
I saw the wink but I think the actual attack scene was probably pretty realistic.
Yeah, but that's almost like pointing out the presence of great actors Malcolm McDowell, Peter O'Toole, and Helen Mirren in the Bob Guccione cut of Caligula. Context is important.

That being said, there is certainly no intent to do harm or be irreverent by Michale Bay et al.

Regards,
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post #9 of 33
12/7/04 at 12:04pm
No, but I'll listen to the punk bad "Tora, Tora, Torrance" if that makes you feel better.
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post #10 of 33
12/7/04 at 12:14pm
Thread Starter 
I think Pearl Harbor is kind of a throw back movie to the 40's and 50's with modern CGI and special effects. A little sappy and not totally historically accurate. Tora,Tora,Tora is almost like a documentary. I did say almost. The Final Countdown is just a fun "what if" movie.
Mike, in answer to your question yes I would sit down and watch Pearl Harbor with your son if he's up to seeing people get killed. Some 14 year olds may consider it tame others may not. You know your son. I would also suggest that you pick up Tora,Tora,Tora and watch that with him to give him more historical background from both the US as well as the Japanese side.
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post #11 of 33
12/7/04 at 12:43pm
Thanks, Jeff.

Maybe we'll have to have a "December 7th" weekend marathon!
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post #12 of 33
12/7/04 at 2:43pm
Tora Tora Tora would be the perfect film.

Pearl Harbor on the other hand is extremely dishonorable because of it's horrible execution of the material. It is extremely unrealistic and turns the entire tragedy into a lame action picture intent on only drawing in the green.

However, I did suggest to a teacher that he show his class PH so that he can point out all of the inaccuracies, which would of course take up the entire length of the film itself.
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post #13 of 33
12/7/04 at 2:46pm
Mike,

Definitely watch Tora Tora Tora (your library probably has it). It's not for everyone, but it is very accurate and includes actual war footage. It's an educational experience.

The Final Countdown is worth watching too, if for no other reason than that it's a good movie.
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post #14 of 33
12/7/04 at 8:19pm
The attack sequence in Pearl Harbor is good, with all its CGI and whatnot. But don't sell Tora, Tora, Tora short on that count either. The attack sequence in Tora is very well done and they didn't have all the fancy new digital tools to work with back then. They blew up a whole lot of real props. To me that perhaps makes it a more impressive achievement. That, and no sappy love triangle.
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post #15 of 33
12/7/04 at 9:49pm
Quote:
The attack sequence in Pearl Harbor is good, with all its CGI and whatnot. But don't sell Tora, Tora, Tora short on that count either. The attack sequence in Tora is very well done and they didn't have all the fancy new digital tools to work with back then. They blew up a whole lot of real props. To me that perhaps makes it a more impressive achievement. That, and no sappy love triangle.


I had a few minutes tonight and peeked at the attack sequence in Pearl Harbor. Very impressive. The DTS in the Director's Cut rocked! I watched up until the intermission card. It gave me the opportunity to talk to my son about the comparisons between the bombing of Pearl Harbor and the World Trade Center and why we always need to remember those dates and events. I believe I will pick up Tora Tora Tora this week--maybe as my 10% off disc when I buy the Bourne Supremacy at Best Buy!

Thanks everybody for your comments!
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post #16 of 33
12/8/04 at 12:11pm
I just remembered. . .From Here To Eternity is another good flick on the same theme. (It was on sale at Costco last week.)
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post #17 of 33
12/8/04 at 1:57pm
You could have watched Star Trek - The Motion Picture as well. It turned 25 yesterday.
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post #18 of 33
12/8/04 at 2:17pm
I watched "Tora, Tora, Tora" Saturday. I watch it every year on or about 12/7.
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post #19 of 33
12/8/04 at 6:19pm
I also try to watch TTT this time of year. I may pop in Midway to cheer up after its over.
BTW, Jeff_HR after browsing your collection I see we have extrodinarily similar tastes in film (except for the ones I have for my son).
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post #20 of 33
12/8/04 at 7:48pm
Quote:
The attack sequence in Pearl Harbor is good, with all its CGI and whatnot.

Guess I totally disagree. Prop planes performing jet-like speeds and manuevers what looked like mere feet off the ground are tips of the iceberg for this way overdone POS. No amount of CGI (and in this film's case, rather bad) can save something so completely unrealistic and numskulled.
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post #21 of 33
12/8/04 at 8:00pm
No Pearl Harbor movies for me, but I'll give you three guesses what we watch every February 2nd...
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post #22 of 33
12/8/04 at 9:31pm
I watched "Tora! Tora! Tora!" tonight. It still holds up very well IMO as the best Pearl Harbor movie ever made, and likely ever to be made. My only quibble is that they should have ended the movie with FDR's "Day Of Infamy" speech and the wild applause from the Congress, which probably would have allowed an American audience to leave the theater feeling a bit better than they probably did at the time the movie came out.

On a lark, I found a VHS copy of the obscure 1979 miniseries "Pearl" that I have not seen in more than 20 years in a bargain bin at Fye for $4.99 so I'll give that a look soon just to see how it compares with bad Pearl Harbor movies like "In Harm's Way" and "Pearl Harbor."
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post #23 of 33
12/9/04 at 9:05am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Pearl Harbor on the other hand is extremely dishonorable because of it's horrible execution of the material. It is extremely unrealistic and turns the entire tragedy into a lame action picture intent on only drawing in the green.

However, I did suggest to a teacher that he show his class PH so that he can point out all of the inaccuracies, which would of course take up the entire length of the film itself
Quote:
quote:

The attack sequence in Pearl Harbor is good, with all its CGI and whatnot.




Guess I totally disagree. Prop planes performing jet-like speeds and manuevers what looked like mere feet off the ground are tips of the iceberg for this way overdone POS. No amount of CGI (and in this film's case, rather bad) can save something so completely unrealistic and numskulled


This really wasn't supposed to be a Pearl Harbor bashing thread. There have been plenty of those before. In fact I almost said, and guess I should have stated that in my orignal post as I guess saying that I would get blasted wasn't clear enough. Its to bad that people can't talk about remembering Pearl Harbor(the attack) on this forum without people having to dump on Pearl Harbor (the movie)
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post #24 of 33
12/9/04 at 1:06pm
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Its to bad that people can't talk about remembering Pearl Harbor(the attack) on this forum without people having to dump on Pearl Harbor (the movie)

Well, us being the movie generation, all association with history nowadays is through film so the subject was bound to stray.

Myself, I cannot stand Michael Bay and I think his films are complete travesties. He sold out the tragedy of Pearl Harbor just to make a few bucks.
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post #25 of 33
12/9/04 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Its to bad that people can't talk about remembering Pearl Harbor(the attack) on this forum without people having to dump on Pearl Harbor (the movie)


Agreed

Quote:
Well, us being the movie generation, all association with history nowadays is through film so the subject was bound to stray.


And I've never understood why today's movie generation holds Historical movies to some high standard and assume that they have to be to the letter of the law on the history or they are automatically bad movies. Movies should entertain 1st we are not talking about documentaries or instructional films.
History movies of the past were not very accurate 80% of the time but yet people watched them and enjoyed them for what they were: Entertainment, not a history lesson. Pearl Harbor the movie is very much like historical movies of the past right down to the love triangle.
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post #26 of 33
12/9/04 at 4:55pm
Thread Starter 
Well said Randy. Thats why when I described it I said it was like a movie from the 40's or 50's. Ala 30 seconds over Tokyo.
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post #27 of 33
12/9/04 at 5:55pm
one of the cable channels, maybe the Action channel, or even one of the Love channels, was running Pearl over the summer and i happened to watch it a few times, mostly cause i came in at the final chapter, and so tried to catch up with it from the beginning.

not real bad, but typical, predictable tv miniseries melodrama. watching it, you can see who will die in the attack and who the survivors will be. a nice performance by gregg henry. plus, lesley anne warren looks pretty hot, and henry's native hawaiian love interest was gorgeous.

also saw the tv mini of From Here to Eternity, must confess i've never seen the original. highlighted only by a decent performance from steve railsback, and a great performance from a very young joe pantoliano, in the sinatra role.
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post #28 of 33
12/9/04 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Pearl Harbor the movie is very much like historical movies of the past right down to the love triangle.

Quote:
Well said Randy. Thats why when I described it I said it was like a movie from the 40's or 50's. Ala 30 seconds over Tokyo.


Except that many of those films from the 40s and 50s were good films, whereas Pearl Harbor is an appalling disaster. Pearl Harbor may have borrowed the basic formula (although its real model is Titanic), but it couldn't borrow the good writing, good acting, and good direction of those early pictures.
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post #29 of 33
12/9/04 at 7:33pm
I was going to make the same basic point as Peter, though my opinion is not as harsh. I don't think it's quite that horrible, but it definitely lacks the good acting and other good qualities of better movies from the past.
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post #30 of 33
12/9/04 at 11:06pm
Quote:
And I've never understood why today's movie generation holds Historical movies to some high standard and assume that they have to be to the letter of the law on the history or they are automatically bad movies. Movies should entertain 1st we are not talking about documentaries or instructional films.
History movies of the past were not very accurate 80% of the time but yet people watched them and enjoyed them for what they were: Entertainment, not a history lesson. Pearl Harbor the movie is very much like historical movies of the past right down to the love triangle.

I did not imply nor say film should be the 'be all end all' representation of history, I only meant that our generation watches historical films and THAT is what inspires us/them to take an active interest in the subject through other forms of media, such as docs and books. Once I saw Saving Private Ryan, I became engrossed in the history of WW2 and invested alot of time in it's study.

I do however think that when filmmakers undertake projects centered around historical events, they have an obligation to make it as accurate and representative of the history as best as possible. Films are NOT ONLY to entertain, but to tell a story, which is vastly different from run of the mill action, drama, etc. films that cater to entertainment value above all. Not to say that creative license cannot be taken at all, but if too much, it ceases to be part of the historical genre and becomes whatever it caters to be.
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