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NBA Basketball 2004-2005 thread - Page 16

post #451 of 555
6/17/05 at 9:34am
This has definitely been a bizarre series so far. Detroit still must win Game 5 to have any chance of winning this series, IMO. Meanwhile, the Spurs really need Game 5 to get back on track. So, I think Sunday's game will be the first close one in this series, and the winner will eventually take the title.
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post #452 of 555
6/17/05 at 10:19am
A reasonable prediction, Scott, but not much in this series has gone according to plan, so we'll have to wait and see! It is pretty great to see the Pistons playing so well again in these last two games, even accounting for how bad the Spurs have been. I just hope they keep it on a high level from here on out. No shame in getting beat when you're playing well, but it's frustrating to lose like chumps.

One person who's obviously done quite the job in the last two games is Larry. When the Cleveland thing broke, Marc Stein of ESPN went so far as to call on Dumars to get rid of him immediately and bring in Chuck Daly to coach the rest of the playoffs, but fortunately the guys have handled it like pros.
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post #453 of 555
6/17/05 at 10:28am
How badly is Ginobili hurt after game 3? He seems to not be able to get to the basket in game 4 at all.
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post #454 of 555
6/17/05 at 10:33am
It might be hurting him more than they're letting on. Popovich explicitly denied that he's hurt when someone brought it up in the post-game press conference last night, but that might be a psychological move on Pop's part to pre-empt any excuse making. Then again, Duncan's been noticeably less effective against the Pistons' stepped-up physical intensity in Detroit, and he doesn't have any injuries to contend with.
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post #455 of 555
6/17/05 at 10:47am
Quote:
One person who's obviously done quite the job in the last two games is Larry. When the Cleveland thing broke, Marc Stein of ESPN went so far as to call on Dumars to get rid of him immediately and bring in Chuck Daly to coach the rest of the playoffs, but fortunately the guys have handled it like pros.

I read that column by Stein and thought it was a ridiculous suggestion, but I'm sure he was just trying to be outrageous to attract readers (as some sports columnists do). While the timing of the whole Brown to Cleveland rumors was terrible, there is no way another coach could be brought into the Finals with absolutely no previous contact with the team and expect anything but a disaster. Joe Dumars is too smart and level headed to do anything that outlandish.

I'm not sure how much of Ginobli's performance is the knee injury and how much is the Pistons pressure defense. In fact, when it comes to this series, I'm not too sure of anything anymore... except that Detroit cannot expect to win this series if they lose Game 5. Winning two straight elimination games in San Antonio is too much to expect.

Regardless of the final outcome of this series, it's great to see the Pistons respond to their horrible performances in Games 1 & 2 with two great games so far. Last night's game was Piston basketball at its best -- a blanketing pressure defense feeding their offense. Big Ben looks like a man possessed out there.
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post #456 of 555
6/17/05 at 10:57am
Yeah, I guess it was a pretty absurd thing to throw out there. And it wasn't even for the Finals--Stein said it should happen in the middle of the Miami series! He went all Bill Walton on us there for a minute.
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post #457 of 555
6/17/05 at 11:20am
So what happened to the Spurs fans in here?
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post #458 of 555
6/17/05 at 2:52pm
Quote:
How badly is Ginobili hurt after game 3? He seems to not be able to get to the basket in game 4 at all.


If he's hurt, he needs to sit on the bench. His play is not helping SA at all. I don't see a limp at all, so it can't be that bad. Can you believe all those turnovers? It is intense Detroit defense, but also very sloppy Spurs passing.

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So what happened to the Spurs fans in here?


Alive and kicking. This is now a best of 3 series with two scheduled in San Antonio, so I still like the Spurs chances.
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post #459 of 555
6/18/05 at 8:13pm
I'm still around, just busy and not spending as much time on-line. I'm definitely concerned with where things are. Game 5 is critical, although with the last two in SA I'd still give the Spurs a mediocre chance to pull things out in SA even if they lose. Mediocre at best.

This has definitely been a really funky series with average margins of >20 points. the big question for game 5 though is can Detroit keep up their momentum? They just put together two really good games in a row, but they haven't had three great ones in the entire post season. If they're in a decent position, they have a tendency to cruise, just look at their game 5 meltdown vs. the Heat (granted, in Miami). I could easily see them slacking off some in game 5 and thinking the series is over, but if they do and SA takes game 5, the series is likely over. They might win one in SA, but not both.

Oh, and 2-3-2 sucks. Having a pivotal game 5 in the stadium of the team WITHOUT home court is really screwy. Game 5 is pivotal, and it needs to go to the team with home court.
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post #460 of 555
6/19/05 at 7:03am
The 2-3-2 format has disadvantages for both teams. The team without home court pretty much must be up 3-2 after five games to have any chance, since being required to win both games 6 & 7 on the road is a nearly impossible task. Also, that team must defend its home court three straight games -- which had never been accomplished in the Finals until the Pistons did it against the Lakers last year.
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post #461 of 555
6/19/05 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Oh, and 2-3-2 sucks. Having a pivotal game 5 in the stadium of the team WITHOUT home court is really screwy. Game 5 is pivotal, and it needs to go to the team with home court.


That's funny, I think this favors the Spurs. I fear they would really tighten up at home with the pressure of having lost their 2-0 series lead. If they were to lose game 5 at home under the 2-2-1-1-1 format, their goose would be cooked in a game 6 on the road. I think they will be looser playing this game on the road. They will probably still get beat, but they won't be uptight.

Detroit showed no ability to even come close to winning in SA, so until proven otherwise, I think the Spurs will win games 6 and 7 at home if it comes to that.

Any trivia buffs in here know when was the last time the home team won all 7 games in the NBA finals? Has it ever happened?
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post #462 of 555
6/19/05 at 4:12pm
Robert, I'm not 100% on this, but reasonably sure that it's never happened in the finals. I believe the closest that ever came to happening in the finals was in 1969, the last year of Bill Russell's career. Boston and the Lakers met in the finals, with the home team winning each of the first 6 games, until Boston won Game 7 in LA.
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post #463 of 555
6/19/05 at 7:50pm
Robert, it never happened at least in the 2-3-2 format, because until last year the home team had never swept the middle 3 games of the series. And that series went only 5 games, as we all know.
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post #464 of 555
6/19/05 at 9:21pm
Rasheed Wallace just cost the Pistons a shot at the title. Leaving Horry on that last possession was a grade-school level mistake, and Rasheed had made similar ones on a couple of earlier possessions as well. Credit to Horry for knocking them down, of course, but only a moronic amateur would have left him that open in those situations, once he had gotten hot. Rasheed also pulled a Chris Webber at the end of regulation, calling a TO that Detroit didn't have, and he was lucky that the buzzer had just sounded. Obviously that would have been a MUCH worse mistake than Webber's legendary blunder, as a college sophomore certainly can't be held to the same standard as a 10-year NBA veteran.

Clearly, the series is over. No chance in hell that the Pistons win both games in San Antonio. Congrats to the Spurs.
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post #465 of 555
6/19/05 at 9:28pm
Thread Starter 
Yeah, sitting here with my brother in law, I told him, anyone else can shoot that shot by the Spurs except Horry, bum shoulder or not, the man will now have six rings, and most of which he has made key shots. Also, I don't get why Tayshaun doesn't take the last time out when he can't get the ball to Chauncy. Well, I don't think they can win two in SA, so it was a good series, and I also think the 2-3-2 format should go. Since I am not a huge baseball fan, Go Lions
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post #466 of 555
6/19/05 at 9:39pm
Pistons were lucky to get to OT in the first place, as Duncan had that wide open tip-in chance on the last play of regulation. It seemed like he rushed it because he thought the buzzer was about to sound, but he definitely had time to grab it with both hands and dunk, which he should have done. And then Rasheed almost gave the game away right there anyway, with that time-out call.
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post #467 of 555
6/19/05 at 10:12pm
HAHA!
To all who thought defensive teams couldnt play an exciting game, poo poo on you

Go Spurs Go!!
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post #468 of 555
6/19/05 at 10:13pm
I think I just lost five years off my life. Bring back the blowouts, my heart can't take this back and forth stuff. After Detroit's early 7 point lead and the Spurs 2nd quarter 9 point lead, I don't think either team got up by more than 4 or 5 for the entire rest of the game.

And Big Shot Rob saved Tim's ass. He's the only reason we're not talking about Tim's 4th quarter meltdown costing the Spurs a title. All those blown FTs (1-7 from the line in the 4th, WTF?) and then the missed put back near the buzzer, if Horry hadn't come back like he did that would have been an epic choke. Definitely lots of mental lapses by both teams at the end, Tim's missed FTs, missed put back, TO in OT, Rasheed's nearly game-costing attempted TO and blown coverage on Horry, etc. It got ugly towards the end.
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post #469 of 555
6/19/05 at 10:18pm
Wow, what a game. I was about to punch a hole in the wall of my new house when Duncan missed that putback. Thankfully, my girlfriend screamed at me in time so I only slammed the wall with two open hands. That hurt.

Great move by Pop to put Bowen on Billups at game's end. It really seemed to make a difference, and then Parker played solid D on the final play.

I don't know how Detroit can come back from this, but if anyone could in this situation, it is them.
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post #470 of 555
6/19/05 at 10:21pm
Quote:
And Big Shot Rob saved Tim's ass. He's the only reason we're not talking about Tim's 4th quarter meltdown costing the Spurs a title. All those blown FTs (1-7 from the line in the 4th, WTF?) and then the missed put back near the buzzer, if Horry hadn't come back like he did that would have been an epic choke.


I was thinking for a while how Tim in the 4th quarter of this game looked a whole lot like David Robinson in Game 6 of the Western conference finals against Houston in 1995, missing shots and turning the ball over. You are right, Horry saved all the Spurs asses, but Tim is still the MVP of the series if SA wins.
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post #471 of 555
6/19/05 at 10:30pm
The "Big Shot Rob" moniker needs some perspective attached to it. Let's remember that he blew wide open threes that would have won crucial games for his teams in each of the last two seasons. In Game 5 against the Spurs in '03, he missed that three in the final seconds that would have won the game for the Lakers, and he went like 2 for 38 in the series. It's not at all clear that the shot would have won the series for the Lakers if he'd made it, as the Spurs did beat their asses in LA in Game 6, but of course it was a huge miss. And then last year, for the Spurs, he had a wide-open three from the top of the circle in the last minute of Game 5 against the Lakers, but he missed it by at least three feet.

Now, understand, I'm not hatin'--the guy just kicked my team's ass all over the court when it counted the most, and of course he's been hitting clutch playoff shots going back to the earliest days of his career in Houston. Clearly, his overall record is that of a guy who has hit lots of big shots in the biggest situations. But he's also had some equally significant misses, and that should be kept in mind as well.
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post #472 of 555
6/19/05 at 10:43pm
True enough, Haggai, but in his defense you have to be willing to miss the big shots if you're gonna make them. H'e missed numerous shots, but even MJ did that. But when it counts, he's been totally unafraid to step up and shoot that big game-deciding shot, and more often then not, he'll make it too. He' clanked quite a few in him time, but he's made more than he's missed, and several of them have literally decided the course of the series. Game 4 (or was it 6?) against Sacto was one big example, tonight was another. His making that shot totally changed the character of the entire series and truly put Detroit's back against the wall.
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post #473 of 555
6/20/05 at 4:57am
That was an exciting game last night, although the outcome was disappointing to us Piston fans. I agree with Haggai that the Pistons really screwed up on Horry's winning shot. Rasheed should never have left him on the inbounds pass.

Well, at least there will be no more late nights for me, so I will not be so bleary eyed at work.

Quote:
Rasheed also pulled a Chris Webber at the end of regulation, calling a TO that Detroit didn't have, and he was lucky that the buzzer had just sounded. Obviously that would have been a MUCH worse mistake than Webber's legendary blunder, as a college sophomore certainly can't be held to the same standard as a 10-year NBA veteran.

The other difference is that Rasheed wouldn't have received any payout from his bookie benefactor for this blunder.
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post #474 of 555
6/20/05 at 6:40am
Chris, I do give Horry credit for hitting lots of big shots over his career, including against the Kings in Game 4 in '02, a series that LA would have lost if he hadn't made that shot. And he won the game for the Spurs last night with a lot more than just the last 3, he was making plays all over the place in the 4th quarter and OT (also, his career didn't start in '02, he made big playoff shots for Houston and LA prior to then as well). But, in addition to the potentially series-changing shots he made last night and in '02, he also missed series-changing shots in '03 and '04. I'm just saying that the "never leave him, he always makes big shots" stories that are already proliferating are studiously ignoring the fact that he's missed some of them as well. Overall, his record of hitting big shots is impressive, particularly for a guy who's not a star, but it sure isn't perfect.
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post #475 of 555
6/20/05 at 6:51am
Thread Starter 
Hey, keep in mind, Jordan missed 26, yes 26 game winning shots in his career, so for as much as people talk about him, he missed more than his fair share of game winners and series changers.
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post #476 of 555
6/20/05 at 7:26am
Series changers? I don't think Jordan had any misses like that in his career. He did bungle away Game 1 against Orlando in '95, but I can't think of any other times when he missed any big shots (or committed any big turnovers) that did (or almost) cost the Bulls a series.
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post #477 of 555
6/20/05 at 8:03am
That was a great shot by Horry he really stepped it up in the 4th quarter.
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post #478 of 555
6/20/05 at 9:23am
Bill Simmons' latest column is an example of what I'm talking about. Horry's praises deserve to be sung, but isn't this a bit excessive?

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Considering the situation (a budding Spurs collapse that seemed eerily reminiscent of the 2004 Lakers series), the circumstances (nobody else on his team was stepping up) and the opponent (one of the best defensive teams ever, playing at home), Horry's Game 5 ranks alongside MJ's Game 6 in 1998, Worthy's Game 7 in 1988, Frazier's Game 7 in 1970 and every other clutch Finals performance over the years.


What? In the same category as...Clyde Frazier with 36 points and 19 assists in Game 7? Worthy going for a triple double in Game 7? Jordan scoring 45 of his team's 87 points in Game 6 in Utah? This is crazy. Yes, this was a huge game for the Spurs, and Horry was the difference down the stretch, absolutely. But it wasn't a Game 7, and nor was it a Game 6 on the road with no more home games to fall back on. And Horry also did nothing for the first three quarters of this game (until the last seconds of the third, that is, when he hit his first three). None of this is a knock on Horry's game last night, it was obviously one of the best 4th quarter/OT performances in memory. But, you know, a little perspective? Please?

And Simmons mentions the Spurs' collapse against the Lakers from last year, without mentioning the airballed 3 that could have won Game 5, missed by...Robert Horry. Didn't he take part in that Spurs collapse? Didn't he go 2 for 38 against the Spurs in '03, contributing heavily to the Lakers' loss in that series? None of this means that his numerous clutch performances in other series don't count, but...Frazier? Worthy? Jordan? Hello?
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post #479 of 555
6/20/05 at 9:43am
Nobody compares to about 90% of the achievements that Michael Jordan accomplished. I actually think he's the one player that should be totally exempt from comparison.
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post #480 of 555
6/20/05 at 10:41am
Regardless of where Horry's Game 5 ranks in Finals lore, he certainly did in our Pistons last night.
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