NBA Basketball 2004-2005 thread - Page 13

It's not so much what they've said or not said this season, but the collective amnesia over what happened in the previous two years. While Kobe deserves plenty of flak for basically chasing such a dominant player out of town, Shaq was at least 30-35 pounds overweight in each of his last two seasons with LA, and he absolutely gets a pass on that (almost the only times I've ever heard it brought up are in the context of praising him for losing weight before this season!) Neither of them behaved like professionals, to be sure. And talking about getting a pass, how about Mourning? As Bill Simmons pointed out last week, if there's a difference between what Vince Carter did in forcing his way out of Toronto and what Zo did with NJ and the Raptors, someone's going to have to fill me in. Zo does deserve credit for what he's been able to do in spite of his terrible kidney problems, but that doesn't give him license to choose which team he will or won't play for during the season itself.



Heh, he does resemble Ron Jeremy, good call. I agree about the coaching match-up, it should be far more in Detroit's favor than it has been. As for the non-call on Chauncey, it was pretty terrible, but there were other questionable calls as well. Rasheed just bowled over one of the Heat in the first quarter, an obvious charge, and yet they called a block. The refs weren't what cost the Pistons the game.

Indeed, it is not in the stars, but in the Pistons themselves. Their mental breakdown in the last few minutes of the game, typified by Rasheed Wallace's technical was what cost them the game.

Larry Brown as much as said so in his post-game interview.

I agree, Brandon. Personally, I think the Pistons are done for this season. Larry Brown is mailing it in, waiting to hop on a plane to Cleveland. The team, therefore, is going to tune out what little coaching he has to offer, since he's a lame duck now.

Larry Brown helped win a title here, but he's way too high maintenance. Unfortunately, the best candidate to replace him (IMO, of course) was just hired to coach the 76ers. Mo Cheeks would have been a great fit here.

It might actually help to know for sure (or almost for sure) that he's leaving, to have a sort of "win one more for him" factor, or at least to remove the ambiguity. Chad Ford is now reporting on ESPN that league sources have confirmed it. It is annoying, but I don't know if it's the biggest deal. We got a title with him, and that's as much or more than we could have expected with anyone else. Phil Jackson sure wouldn't be a bad fit, if he's willing to take the job. And I think Flip Saunders would certainly be as good a choice as Mo Cheeks.

Impressive work from Phoenix to stay alive. I can barely imagine them actually winning the series, but if they win Game 5 at home, suddenly things get...interesting. Stoudemire's block on Duncan in the last minute was amazing! Really mysterious how Duncan just collapsed at the foul line. He went 30 of 33 in the first three games, but then 3 of 12 last night, including one airball, and a few others that were almost airballs.

Speaking of crappy free throw shooting, Sportscenter's Heat/Pistons coverage last night talked about Shaq's claim that he always "makes them when they count" in the playoffs. They showed the stats, with Linda Cohn exclaiming that he has indeed lifted his percentage in the 4th quarter, as compared to the first three, in his overall playoff stats since 2000. Lo and behold, his percentage went from about 47 in the first quarter, to...55 in the fourth quarter. Way to make 'em when they count, big man. Yeah, yeah, he made them in Game 3, but the numbers don't lie.

Big Pistons win last night, thanks largely to an extraordinary first half, with over 50% shooting from the floor, 17 assists, and zero turnovers. Shaq's foul trouble certainly helped matters, and when Zo also had three fouls, the Heat's scrub unit was outscored by like 10 points in just a few minutes. Shaq never did get on track, although Haslem and Dooling elevated their games. Wade just went nuts in the third quarter, but it wasn't quite enough, as Hamilton had a superb game, and Rasheed had a great first half. Weirdly, Rip only made 8 out of 12 free throws, he needs to knock more of them down, although it's a very good sign that he's getting to the hole and drawing fouls. The officiating seems pretty bad overall, with bad calls going against both teams. Doesn't make for a very pretty series. I guess I'm concerned a bit about the pace of the game, which isn't going to favor Detroit if any of the subsequent games unfold that way. A 60 point half is not something they can count on repeating.

Everybody is making complete asses of themselves with this Larry Brown business. Obviously Larry deserves no sympathy for playing the victim instead of just acknowledging the truth, which it appears he could do without any repercussions, as I think it's been reported that the Pistons gave Cleveland permission to talk to him. But the media, as always, are simply determined to make themselves the center of the story. All the "are you guys distracted by this story" questions are just pathetic. Yes, it's a story, and they have to report it, but please, get over yourselves. The players obviously have nothing to say about it. It almost reminds me of the narcissism surrounding Super Bowl week, where the media's self-referencing reaches new heights of parody every year. Back in January, Dan Patrick asked one of the Eagles (I think) if the media hype was distracting them before the Super Bowl, with no apparent awareness of the fact that he's the top anchor of the top sports show on TV. I've always liked Patrick, but that sort of thing is so dumb. It would be like Peter Jennings asking a presidential candidate about being distracted by all the media attention, as if "the media" were some abstract entity that didn't include himself at the top of the pyramid.

The Suns are gonna fight their way back into this series. It's definitely going atleast 6 because tonight is gonna be a win. Mark my words. The Suns team I saw in the first 3 games didn't remotely resemble the Suns I've watched all year. I don't attribute it to the Spurs "incredible defense" but to the Suns flat out playing bad. Joe Johnson's performance in game 4 was what I'm used to from him. He's a clutch shooter. They very well could have won game 2 had he been in the lineup. Of course this is all speculation. However, expect a big victory tonight.

Cmon Rich,
You and Phoenix fans are probably the only ones who belive that stuff.

Phoenix played phenomenal ball as proof in game 3 and over 50% shooting!!

But dont worry, the Spurs didnt treat the Suns anymore special than other teams in the league. SA's defense is number one in points allowed. So it doesnt really matter how well Phoenix plays.

Granted, even SA cant beat Phoenix at EVERY GAME. However they sure can win 1 out of 3 :p

Well, theres that one more game

Bye bye Suns

Stoudemire was ridiculous last night. Nash, ho hum. Suns lose.
Sad but true, Spurs will get another ring.

And don't forget the Spurs have already advanced this far without their starting center and their 6th man. Rather impressive.

Without their 6th man? Who are you referring to? On the starting center front, Mohammed has done a nice job filling in for Nesterovic.

I don't know about that.

Sure Stoudemire was ridiculous last night but I think he's pretty ho hum on defense. Sure he blocks a few shots but he isn't dominant on that end. He will get better though

I still favor the Heat or Pistons to win it all.

That's why it drives me crazy when people compare him to Olajuwon - Hakeem was already a beast on defense when he came into the league, but Amare, like the rest of the Suns, doesn't bother much with defense.

Devin Brown. He was the Spurs best bench player all season but has been unable to play significant minutes due to a back injury.

True, Amare doesnt play defense, but no one else on the Suns really played defense either. It was still amazing to watch Amare jump over people, including Duncan, to score. He's young and will continue to dominate in that way for awhile. Once he's older though, he better have something else to his game or he wont be worth much late in his career.

The Heat win tonight, this series will go seven. I give the edge to the Heat in game seven due to Shaq.

I didn't bother watching the second half last night, as the Pistons' shameful performance in the 2nd quarter made it entirely clear that they were going to lose the game. Credit to Miami's supporting cast for playing well--Butler, Haslem, and Damon Jones all played better than just about everyone on the Pistons did. Maybe Detroit can win Game 6, but at this point I'll be stunned if they manage to win the series.

Haggai,

I agree the Pistons should've played better. They started out incredible and then suddenly they couldn't hit their shots. The refs were absolutely awful last night on both sides of the ball, and I think the Pistons got the brunt of the bad calls early and it effectively killed any momentum. When a ref calls a defensive foul then he looks and sees it is Wade and then changes it to offensive foul on Rasheed, I,m smelling some major BS. That would've been Wade's 3rd foul. Then the Pistons had 3 straight offensive fouls called on them in 3 consecutive possessions and when you watch the replay, they were not fouls. The refs tried to close the huge disparity in fouls toward the end of the game when it didn't matter. I'm sort of in agreement with Rasheed's comments after the game.

That one in particular was disgraceful, but the one on Lindsey when he was leading a fastbreak (I think it was one of the three in a row you mentioned) was absolutely the right call, as he was completely out of control. But the refs weren't preventing the Pistons from hitting open shots, which they missed plenty of in the 2nd quarter. Championship teams need to be able to overcome some bad calls without falling apart.

Yep, the Suns lost. I was wrong. However, saying that Amare didn't play any defense couldn't be further from the truth considering he played better defense than Tim Duncan for the series. Timmy couldn't even stop Amare from a 36 point average throughout the series.

If we are thinking of the same foul, then I disagree. Lindsay cut slightly left to jump around the defender and the defender (was it Wade?) shifted underneath him and got the call.

McDyess missed so many open shots it was pitiful. Lindsay kept driving to the basket at the end when they actually had time to cut into the lead and he missed layups. Ben sucked except his dunks. Elden needs to keep his mouth shut about fouling Shaq. He picked up 3 quick fouls.



Sheed is way too emotional at times. Most all of his fouls were questionable and he has a right to be upset, but he needs to control himself and post-up and not hover around the three point line.

The Spurs were content to let Amare light up the scoreboard as long as the three point shooters were held in check. For the majority of the series, the Spurs accomplished this goal, which is a big reason they won.

Hunter's been missing layups since he was first drafted by the Pistons many years ago. It's always aggravated me.

Haggai, I turned the game off at halftime and went to bed, too. It was quite obvious that they were going to lose -- it's never a good sign when Rasheed is hanging out at the three point line instead of playing inside, and the team couldn't hit any shots.

Detroit may win Game 6, but they are not beating the Heat two straight to pull this thing out. They are playing too inconsistent for that to happen.

Amare played horrible defense. He puts all his effort into offense and getting offensive boards. When people were driving to the basket, Amare would not rotate on defense and try to stop the drive. Maybe his coach told him to stay on his man no matter what the situation but when the guy is running right by you to an open layup then dont you think you should at least try to slow the guy down?

He also was terrible on the defensive boards. He doesn't box out, he just wants to out jump everyone for the rebound which is no good if you don't have the positioning. What good is it for the Suns to play good enough defense to make the Spurs miss if they don't get the rebound? A team's defensive reposibilities doesn't end when the other team misses a shot.

That's the curse of my team too. They are great at playing enough defense to make people miss the initial shot but they give up the offensive rebound way too much.

LETS GO HEATS!

Well, that's more like it...I guess. Obviously the Heat were in trouble without Wade playing, but I was still surprised by how completely their offense collapsed. The main difference for the Pistons was getting 25 points off 19 Miami turnovers, while committing only 6 TOs themselves. They also hit the offensive boards, and that plus converting all those turnovers ended up with them taking 22 more shots from the floor than the Heat did. Rip drove the offense with a great game, although Rasheed and McDyess are still throwing up way too many bricks, even on good shots.

Even though he surely wanted to give everything he could to try to play, Wade would probably have been better served to stay in Miami instead of making the trip. Given how great he's been in the playoffs, I doubt anyone would have seriously questioned his heart or his commitment to winning if he'd done that. He'll obviously play in Game 7, but if he can't have a good game, they're in big trouble. The Miami role players will probably play better--Eddie Jones isn't likely to repeat his 1-for-9 Game 6 shooting--but since the Pistons are going to be motivated, the Heat are not going to be in good shape if they're playing short-handed in any way.

No excuses! We got beat, plain and simple. This was like an old fashion whooping.

I'll be at game 7 to cheer my Heats to victory.

Now let's see who wants it most.

"Heats"?

YEEEEEEEE-HAAAW!! Some coherent thoughts later, but now's the time on HTF when we dance!