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Hsu Research STF-2 Subwoofer Test & Review - Page 4

post #91 of 113
9/13/04 at 9:14pm
Curtis,

SVS picked Ed, and several other folks to beta test a PB10-ISD. He's not alone (others have been notified by singing telegram), but we only have a very few full production spec units to spread around at the moment. When we contacted Ed, he already warned us about his archery deadline, and that he had his hands full doing a review (gasp) of another brand.

He'll only get it for a week or so and it'll be off to someone else. I'll have one with me at the HTF Hollywood week 18-24 SEP (screwing it together tomorrow as a matter of fact since the parts just arrived. One photo shoot still to knock off though).

As the next few weeks unfold we'll spread a few more around and then production will be upon us in late OCT.

If we'd been lucky we'd have gotten our entry level sub to Ed before a certain other brand did, but them's the breaks.

We're not shy about climbing in the ring with anyone else though. The the more the merrier we say.

Ron
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post #92 of 113
9/13/04 at 9:32pm
Ron.....ofcourse you picked Ed...no issues there...a smart way to get the ball rolling. I was just hoping Ed would indulge in other sub companies rather than SVS and a certain other company.

You may not be shy about jumping in the ring with other companies, but it hasn't happenned, and the UFW-10, I think, would be great to have Edward's perspective...measurements and all. It gets as much play in other forums as SVS or Hsu.

Anyways, I am looking forward to finally meeting you on the evening of the 24th, the only time I can attend. Looks like there will be a lot of interesting equipment. Need help loading the van?
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post #93 of 113
9/13/04 at 9:47pm
Ed,

Yeah, I only posed the question here because I had your ear so to speak. Looking forward to the PB10-ISD review, if I was in the market for a sub, I would be looking HARD at this one. Price is very tempting and I just may order one to find out what it is all about, but having 3 cats around, that front firing driver has me worried.
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post #94 of 113
9/14/04 at 4:43am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
You are getting a PB10-ISD before everyone else?


Not quite. Ron Stimpson posted weeks ago it was SVS' intention to send out several "review" PB10-ISDs to various forum users and professional reviewers. AFAIK, I'm one of at least four HTF members slated for one.

Quote:
Another reason I was hoping for a UFW-10 review is because it gives another perspective rather than the Hsu/SVS comparisons. With the announcment of the PB10-ISD, and your STF-2 review that followed soon after, and now your pending review of the PB10-ISD before it is released, you will undoubtedly compare. Would be nice for you to get a Rava or UFW-10 as well. Just hate to have the stage always set for Hsu vs SVS when there are other worthy subs out there.

Agreed, that's why I've been talking with Dan Wiggins about a Rava review, and MLS about a UFW-12 review. Variety is the spice of life. After the PB10-ISD review, the Rava review gets precedence as another alternative in the $400 class.

Actually (while many probably won't remember), it was Dr. Hsu's idea about 6 months ago to send me an STF-2 for review. He thought that perhaps the original STF-2 I had purchased from CompUSA might have not have been fully up to specifications. So the wheels were set in motion for this STF-2 review long before there was any announcement of the PB10-ISD launch. Truth be told, I would have posted this review sooner had the sub been delivered earlier, but Dr. Hsu was quite busy and things slipped a bit. So the timing of this review coinciding with the PB10-ISD launch is purely coincidental; I got the STF-2 review done as quickly as I could, once I actually received the sub.

Quote:
I could do the listening tests on the Maestro... and Ed could handle measurements... and see if I really AM tone-deaf...

Now there's a thought....bring up a UFW-10 and the Maestro - David and Goliath Redux - battle of the sealed subs.
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post #95 of 113
9/14/04 at 7:48am
Quote:
Not quite. Ron Stimpson posted weeks ago it was SVS' intention to send out several "review" PB10-ISDs to various forum users and professional reviewers. AFAIK, I'm one of at least four HTF members slated for one.

OK OK...you four are getting before everyone else. Who are you guys?

Quote:
Agreed, that's why I've been talking with Dan Wiggins about a Rava review, and MLS about a UFW-12 review. Variety is the spice of life. After the PB10-ISD review, the Rava review gets precedence as another alternative in the $400 class.

That is a great idea, but the UFW-10 is available now and popular.

Quote:
Actually (while many probably won't remember), it was Dr. Hsu's idea about 6 months ago to send me an STF-2 for review. He thought that perhaps the original STF-2 I had purchased from CompUSA might have not have been fully up to specifications. So the wheels were set in motion for this STF-2 review long before there was any announcement of the PB10-ISD launch. Truth be told, I would have posted this review sooner had the sub been delivered earlier, but Dr. Hsu was quite busy and things slipped a bit. So the timing of this review coinciding with the PB10-ISD launch is purely coincidental; I got the STF-2 review done as quickly as I could, once I actually received the sub.


Thanks for the clarification Edward. How long have you had the sub?

Quote:
Now there's a thought....bring up a UFW-10 and the Maestro - David and Goliath Redux - battle of the sealed subs.


That would be great too.
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post #96 of 113
9/14/04 at 8:02am
I know Craig reviewed the Aperion 12" sub a while back but I have to say that I think the 10" is even better than the 12" "for its weight". Ed/Craig, if your doing a round of 10" tests you might want to include the Aperion. It is 500 bucks but that includes shipping and a nice wood finish.
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post #97 of 113
9/14/04 at 9:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
OK OK...you four are getting before everyone else. Who are you guys?


I would send Ron a PM and ask him - honestly I'm not up on all the details of who's getting what/when. I just knew Ron had tapped a few HT-SPOT and HTF members on the shoulder and asked if they would be interested in a beta unit to preview.

Quote:
Thanks for the clarification Edward. How long have you had the sub?

I can pull the exact ship date if you want, but I received it about 3-4 weeks before this review was posted. That's about how long it takes me to do a review (considering I have a full time job), including outdoor/indoor test measurements, music/DVD evals, and back/forth comments and feedback from Dr. Hsu. He was great to work with, and I learned some valuable things from him.


Quote:
That is a great idea, but the UFW-10 is available now and popular.


Ditto for the Rava. Really, it was more a matter that I had already approached Dan and set the wheels in motion on a Rava review before anyone had even mentioned a UFW-10.

The same applies to the UFW-12; Craig and I talked privately with MLS months ago about a UFW-12 review (actually it was about the same time Craig was doing his UFW-10 review). It's just that the gestation period on the UFW-12 has been pretty long.

I really do feel Craig did the UFW-10 review justice and also raved about its SQ, and that was one more reason not to reinvent the wheel and instead focus on the UFW-12 as the next logical step in the review process.
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post #98 of 113
9/14/04 at 9:57am
Thanks Edward.

Are you saying you and Craig will not seperately review the same subs?

It is always so much nicer to get more than one perspective when it comes to speakers/subs.

BTW, there is also a new Rocket ELT Sub that is $400.
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post #99 of 113
9/14/04 at 10:04am
Quote:
Actually (while many probably won't remember), it was Dr. Hsu's idea about 6 months ago to send me an STF-2 for review. He thought that perhaps the original STF-2 I had purchased from CompUSA might have not have been fully up to specifications.


I bought one of the CompUSA STF-2's back if February. I am extremely pleased with its performance especially with music. Now I am curious if the unit is fully up to specifications. Ed, did you notice any difference between the two subs? Is there a way to find out?

Thanks............ Tom
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post #100 of 113
9/14/04 at 10:06am
Curtis - We both DID do the PB2+, and Edward handled the STF-3 while I took on the VTF-3.2 ...

Ed and I have the identical measuring gear available, which means we can do more separately... yet still post consistent results.

For example, AV123 asked me to look at their new SW-10 SE subwoofer. Ed is going to test the PB10-ISD ... and already did the STF-2 ...

I will e-mail to Ed the measured results of the SW-10 SE for him to place with his results of the PB10-ISD ...

These reviews are REALLY time consuming. Ed has the PB-10 then the UFW-12 coming up....

I have the Maestro and the SW-10 SE to do... and a small write up on the $399 Tyke system ...some thoughts on the 250's/100 Mark II then I am DONE...

I will be in Canada too much to do more reviews after these are done...
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post #101 of 113
9/14/04 at 10:31am
Craig...there is a difference with "mailing" results to Ed and having Ed do his own tests.

You are two seperate people, different rooms, etc.

The UFW-10 has been easily available, and a different perspective would be great for everyone.

Just wishing you guys would branch out a bit is all. You seem to be doing mostly AV123/MLS related stuff, and Ed SVS/Hsu stuff.
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post #102 of 113
9/14/04 at 11:07am
Curtis - We are doing groundplane measurements outdoors with the same microphone, software and methodology. Other than ambient tempature and humidity, which will account for perhaps a 1 dB difference, our results will be the same.

As far as the company whose gear I am testing... I always had the welcome mat out for any and all. My criteria for tests....

1. Blind listening.
2. Measure in room response to ensure that the equipment was place in the most advantageous location. If not (as in the STF-1) , move the unit.
3. Post blind test results.
4. take feedback and try to work through others' opinions
5. Have fun.

AV123 seems to like the blind testing route. Even when their product took a second place, they were gracious and sent more stuff for review. Since I needed more speakers for the next theater room, I agreed to buy this gear and post the listening results.

Some people did not like the blind testing... and do not wish for me to do more. That is cool... If Ed wants to review the UFW-10, I would love it.

I am not going to suggest he spend another 100 hours doing a review... that is HIS call...
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post #103 of 113
9/14/04 at 11:21am
You guys have the same exact equipment and methodology?

I understand your blind listening tests, but nobody is there to verify the setup, right.

If you agree to buy the gear, is it unbiased?
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post #104 of 113
9/14/04 at 11:45am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Are you saying you and Craig will not seperately review the same subs?

No. I'm saying the fact Craig had already reviewed a UFW-10 factored significantly into my decision to pursue reviewing the UFW-12 instead. Is there a UFW-10 in the future for me? Never say never. Craig will be in my neck of the woods soon, and maybe he'll surprise me with a little package.

Quote:
It is always so much nicer to get more than one perspective when it comes to speakers/subs.

Indeed. Objective measurements under controlled conditions can be used to benchmark and compare products, certainly. And subjective impressions are useful IF the reviewer's impressions correlate well with accepted performance standards and benchmarks in the industry. But as we so often discuss, ultimately the buyer's ears are the final judge.

Quote:
Now I am curious if the unit is fully up to specifications. Ed, did you notice any difference between the two subs? Is there a way to find out?

Both of the STF-2 subs I tested performed/measured very similarly. If your unit is performing very well, I wouldn't be concerned about it. You can always email Dr. Hsu for details/reassurance if your curiosity is still getting the better of you.

Regards,

Ed
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post #105 of 113
9/30/04 at 9:54am
Quote:
Hey, Craig...the way to "get me" is by offering a real super deal deal on one of 'em Dodge Hemi Magnum RTs (clad in red regalia, please ) 'cus am in the market for a new car. So what do 'ya say, pal?...


I'm actually in the market for a new car myself -- and man, i gotta say that the magnum is looking more and more appealing each time I see it.

Have you bought one yet?
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post #106 of 113
9/30/04 at 10:16am
I was talking to my CEO just yesterday who knows a dealer in Vegas. Average days those spend on his lot? One. He's charging 4 grand over sticker and people are happy to pay it.
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post #107 of 113
9/30/04 at 3:09pm
quote:
__________________________________________________ ________

I'm actually in the market for a new car myself -- and man, i gotta say that the magnum is looking more and more appealing each time I see it.

Have you bought one yet?
__________________________________________________ ________

Nope...but am still looking for good deals...

-THTS

"...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."
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post #108 of 113
10/1/04 at 8:18am
So when will we see a Group Buy for Magnum's, sponsored by Craig? Sign me up!

Craig, now that you are a partner with MLS and you own a couople of car dealerships, have you thought about the possibilities in the car audio arena?

Hey! I've got Rockets in my rocket!!!
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post #109 of 113
10/1/04 at 3:49pm
The PT Cruiser and VW New Beetle both commanded over-sticker prices when first introduced and now can be had for well under. I suspect the same will prove true for the Magnum. If you can wait a year, you can save several thousand dollars and also avoid most new-model glitches that may occur on early production cars. The Cruiser, btw seems to have avoided most of the early production problems so the outlook for the Magnum is probably pretty good.
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post #110 of 113
10/6/04 at 10:56am
From what I've heard, there have been no production issues w/ the Magnum just yet. As you said, looks like someone learned their lesson. I've read nothing but fabulous things from Car/Driver, etc. about the magnum's performance.
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post #111 of 113
11/2/04 at 5:52am
I really want another svs. I think three is a good number..... Although now the HSU STF-2 is on sale locally for $199. If it is in stock when I check today it might be too good to pass up. This one is going to go in a bedroom on my computer for games and the kids to watch movies on.
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post #112 of 113
1/29/12 at 7:40pm
i know everyone is talking 10" subs. i purchased a downfiring pb12-nsd a couple of years ago and have yet to be disappointed by it.
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post #113 of 113
1/30/12 at 3:59am
Welcome Tommy. I want to congratulate you on reviving an almost 8 year old thread.
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