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Hsu Research STF-2 Subwoofer Test & Review

post #1 of 113
Thread Starter 
Hsu Research STF-2 Test & Review

By Ed Mullen

1) Introduction:

The STF series of subwoofers from Hsu Research are fixed tune units with the tuning frequency carefully chosen to provide an optimal balance of extension and output. These subs were designed for enthusiast who doesn’t need the more expensive variable tuning option offered on the VTF series. Hsu Research offers three STF models: The STF-3 (12” woofer), the STF-2 (10” woofer), and the STF-1 (8” woofer).

The STF-2 represents Hsu’s entry into the $400 subwoofer class, and is essentially a fixed tune version of the venerable VTF-2 operating in Maximum Extension mode. The rated extension of the STF-2 is 25 Hz +/-2 dB. Venting is accomplished with one flared (both ends) port, with an inner diameter of 3 inches and an outer flare diameter of 4-3/8 inches.

The STF-2 came with unpacking instructions, a well-written Owner’s Manual, a Quick Set-Up Guide (with plenty of diagrams) for HT applications. Warranty is 7 years on the subwoofer, and 2 years on electronics. For review purposes only, Dr. Hsu also provided me with a demo music CD, and a demo HT DVD.

The Hsu R&D and general headquarters is located in Anaheim, California. The STF-2 was designed and engineered in the United States, and built in China. The website is located at www.hsuresearch.com.

2) Size, Appearance, Fit & Finish:

The STF-2’s external dimensions are roughly 14" wide, 19" tall, and 18" deep, including the amplifier controls and the spiked plastic feet. The sub weighs about 40 pounds uncrated.

The plastic spiked feet on the STF-2 can vibrate on hard smooth surfaces (like my laminate flooring), so I used a rubberized welcome mat to prevent this from occurring. Owners could also use rubber furniture cups under the spiked feet. Either method is approved by Hsu Research.

The STF-2 cabinet has an external ridge on the top and bottom caps, and comes finished in a finely textured satin black vacuum-sealed vinyl coating. The coating application was uniform with no detectable surface defects. The vertical seam in the vinyl discretely runs along the backside of the subwoofer. The amp, woofer, and vent were well fitted.



3) Amplifier Feature Set:

The rear flush-mounted digital BASH amp is rated at 200 watts continuous. Standard amp features include:

- Off/Auto-On/On
- Single Low Level Input
- Phase Control (0/180 switch)
- CV LPF (30-90 Hz 4th order with defeat switch)
- Replaceable Fuse
- Detachable Power Cord

4) Ground Plane Frequency Response Measurements:

In order to determine the quasi-anechoic frequency response, the STF-2 was placed outside, away from any reflective structures, and measured using ground plane techniques. Per the recommendation of Dr. Hsu, the STF-2 was laid on its side, with the woofer and vent equidistant from the mic. Measurements were conducted at 2 meters from the centerline of the subwoofer enclosure, with the low pass filter disabled, and the phase control set to 0 degrees.

FR sweeps were conducted at progressively increasing sound pressure levels until dynamic compression was noted. Dynamic compression is caused by a combination of thermal and mechanical driver limitations and port flow restriction.

Using 104 dB as a midpoint, the 2M GP FR curve measured an outstanding +/- 2 dB from 25-100 Hz. The response was –9 dB (95 dB) at 20 Hz. With respect to dynamic compression, the curve stayed linear up to 102-103 dB in the 25-40 Hz bandwidth.



5) Ground Plane Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) Testing:

Harmonic distortion occurs when harmonics (multiples) the fundamental signal are produced due to non-linear behavior of the electrical, magnetic, or mechanical mechanism of the driver. A subwoofer with low THD will sound clean and distinct. At the lowest frequencies, high THD means the listener will feel less of the true fundamental note, and hear more of the false harmonics.

Measurements were conducted at 2 meters from the centerline of the subwoofer enclosure. To calculate the 1 meter test values, add 6 dB to the 2 meter reading. THD was limited to 10% unless otherwise noted. With the exception of 22 Hz, test frequency spacing was at 1/3 octave intervals.

Equipment reviewer Tom Nousaine directly averages his dB values, providing equal weighting to all sound pressures. This method correlates well with our subjective impressions of subwoofer performance, and was therefore used in this review.

Output Linearity for a given bandwidth is calculated by dividing the average SPL by the maximum SPL and expressing the results as a percentage. A score of 100% means the subwoofer exhibits perfect output linearity across the given bandwidth.

STF-2 10% THD Ground Plane 2 Meters (add 6 dB to obtain 1 meter values):

20 Hz: 74.7 dB
22 Hz: 80.9 dB
25 Hz: 91.7 dB
32 Hz: 99.5 dB
40 Hz: 98.8 dB
50 Hz: 104.8 dB
63 Hz: 106.9 dB
80 Hz: 104.7 dB

20-80 Hz: Average 95.3 dB; Output Linearity 89%
22-80 Hz: Average 98.2 dB; Output Linearity 92%
25-80 Hz: Average 101.1 dB; Output Linearity 95%



6) In-Room Frequency Response Measurements:

The in-room frequency response of a subwoofer is affected by things like room acoustics, the location of the listener, interaction with other speakers, and even the bass management circuit of the AVR. Experimentation with subwoofer placement and different listening positions is encouraged in order to obtain the best results in your own room.

To simulate a typical user set-up, the STF-2 was placed in the front corner of my 2,000 ft3 home theater room. For bass management, all speakers were set to small with a crossover of 80 Hz, and the STF-2 low pass filter was disabled. The phase was set to 0 degrees (this provided better results than 180 degrees). The in-room FR sweeps were processed through the AVR with only the main speakers and the STF-2 operating.

The in-room FR was measured at three popular listening positions, all about 12 feet from the STF-2. The three curves were then combined to create an average response curve. The three curve average is +/- 5 dB from 100-30 Hz, with good extension to about 23 Hz. There is some room gain in the bottom octave, which can help compensate for the human ear’s lack of sensitivity to very deep bass.



7) In-Room Maximum Output Levels:

The maximum in-room output from a subwoofer is strongly influenced by variables like room size and acoustics, boundary integrity, sub placement, the distance to the listening positions, and room gain.

To assess the maximum dynamic output from the STF-2, I conducted frequency response sweeps at the primary listening position at progressively increasing sound pressure levels until dynamic compression was noted. The STF-2 stayed linear up to about 108 dB. I also measured the distortion limited (10%) output at the listening position, and obtained 91 dB @ 20 Hz, 100 dB @ 25 Hz, and 103 dB @ 30 Hz.

Obviously, these test results are only valid in my particular room, but they should provide some indication of what to expect from the STF-2 in terms of dynamic output and clean deep bass levels in a mid-size room.

Equipment reviewer Don Keele has developed some guidelines for estimating maximum clean output from a subwoofer in a typical in-room environment. He takes the ground plane 10% THD output figures, and adds the following:

25 Hz + 8 dB
32 Hz + 6 dB
40 Hz + 5 dB
50 Hz + 4 dB

Whether the enthusiast should use the 2 meter or 1 meter ground plane data in Keele’s formula really depends on the room size and how far the subwoofer will be placed from the listening position. In my room, using the 2 meter ground plane data in the formula correlated well with my actual in-room measurements. In a smaller room with the subwoofer closer to the listener, using the 1 meter ground plane data in the formula might be more appropriate.

8) Subjective Impressions and SPL Levels For Home Theater DVD Movies:

To provide a real world indication of how loud the STF-2 can play in my mid-size HT room, I measured some sound pressure peaks from a few action-oriented DVDs.

I used an SPL meter (set to C-weighted Fast) at the listening position. The sound pressures listed are straight meter reads, with no correction factor applied. This is something the average HT enthusiast can try at home with a Radio Shack SPL meter.

For a given DVD, the playback volume was increased until minor distortion and compression artifacts were occasionally noted on the deepest and most challenging scenes. The average enthusiast (without any test gear) can rely on these audible warning signs that the subwoofer should not be pushed any harder.

If higher playback levels are desired, the STF-2 can be moved closer to the listening position (be sure to recalibrate). If moving the subwoofer closer is not a viable option, the enthusiast should consider the larger STF-3 or VTF-3.

My HT system is calibrated to Dolby Reference Level at master volume 0.0 with the Avia Guide To Home Theater DVD. Master volume settings are listed for reference purposes only.

a) Underworld (DD 5.1), Master Volume -15

Most of the bass in Underworld is in the 28-35 Hz region. The STF-2 can play loud and clean in this bandwidth, and felt very dynamic on this DVD. I was particularly impressed with its dynamics at 1:26:24, marking the end of a Sonja flashback scene.

Watery Grave (0:30:40-0:30:50): 105 dB
Sonja Condemned To Death (1:25:05): 101 dB
Sonja Condemned To Death (1:26:13-1:26:24): 105-108 dB
Sonja Condemned To Death (1:26:40): 104 dB
Endangered New Species (1:46:33): 102-103 dB

b) Matrix Revolutions (DD 5.1), Master Volume -7

Revolutions contains significantly deeper bass than Underworld, and the STF-2 occasionally missed infrasonics and lacked deep impact in certain scenes, but otherwise did a convincing job with this demanding DVD. At anything higher than Master Volume –7, the STF-2 started to sound uncomfortable on the APU stomp scene.

APU Stomp (0:59:02): 101 dB
Rumbling Before Dock Breach (1:02:42): 99-101 dB
Driller Hits Ground (1:03:20): 100 dB
APU's Firing (1:03:49): 97-98 dB (sustained)
Driller OutRigger Stomp (1:05:03): 101 dB
Kid Fires APU (1:19:17): 100 dB

c) LOTR-ROTK (DD-EX 5.1), Master Volume -9

The STF-2 delivered decent impact on the battering ram and spike ball scenes. It sounded a bit strained on the deep oliphant collision. The STF-2 partially captured the body and weight of Frodo's ultra deep heartbeat, but omitted the infrasonics and started to compress toward the end of this challenging scene.

Battering Ram Hits Door (1:46:45): 103 dB
Oliphant Stomping (2:04:20-2:04:23): 101 dB
Oliphants Collide (2:06:05): 102 dB
Witch King Spike Ball Hits Ground (2:10:10): 102 dB
Frodo's Beating Heart - Mount Doom (2:40:33-2:40:57): 97-99 dB

9) Subjective Music Evaluation:

a) Los Lonely Boys – Or Music, LLC / Sony Music Entertainment, 2003

There is plenty of aggressive electric bass guitar work on this Latino rock CD. The STF-2 sounded rich and resonant, with good distinction of notes and solid extension on low E (about 40 Hz).

b) Gladiator soundtrack - Hans Zimmer, Decca Records, 2000

This soundtrack remains one of my favorites for evaluating the musical capabilities of a subwoofer. Virtually the entire soundtrack is filled with deep, rich, and highly textured bass. The STF-2 handled Gladiator very well, playing all the varied bass notes with clarity, texture, and definition.

c) Led Zeppelin II - Atlantic Records, 1969 (1994 Digitally Remastered)

Moby Dick contains one of the best drum solos ever recorded. The STF-2 displayed excellent attack and impact on the drum strikes, sounding tympanic with just the right amount of decay and no detectable overhang.

d) Poem of Chinese Drum – Poems Of Thunder, Yim Hok-Man

This was a song from the music CD provided by Hsu Research. This mesmerizing cut contains dozens of deep and powerful drum strikes which the STF-2 handled easily, always sounding realistic and natural, without any boom or slop. The transition from the mains speakers was smooth and the STF-2 filled in the bottom octave nicely.

10) Summary And Conclusion:

The STF-2 is a really nice sounding subwoofer. One glance at the commendably flat quasi-anechoic frequency response will tell you that accuracy was Dr. Hsu’s first priority when he designed the STF-2.

The STF-2 can certainly play loud enough for any reasonable music application. On demanding and deep action-oriented DVDs, I reached its dynamic limits in a mid-size room at moderately loud playback levels (refer to sections 7 & 8 for details). If louder playback levels are desired, the STF-2 can be moved closer to the listening position, or a larger model like the STF-3 can be considered.

When operated within its clean limits, the STF-2 will reward the listener with smooth, well-defined bass and good in-room extension to 23 Hz, and represents an excellent value in the $400 subwoofer price class.
post #2 of 113
Ed... This is getting to be habit... Nice review !
post #3 of 113
Awesome review Being an STF-2 owner myself, I really enjoyed reading it!
post #4 of 113
Ed...

Yet again you have excelled.

Congratulations, a fantastic review.
post #5 of 113
Nicely done Ed.

Did you get a chance to try any kind of a scene that would require a very rapid response in succession with the STF-2?
post #6 of 113
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the kind words, guys. I worked closely with Dr. Hsu on this review, and his input and suggestions were valuable and informative.

Quote:
Did you get a chance to try any kind of a scene that would require a very rapid response in succession with the STF-2?


Any specific suggestions, Steve? I thought the drum solo in Moby Dick and the Poem Of A Chinese Drum were good tests of transient response and the STF-2 did very well - good attack with no sloppy overhang or boom and realistic tympanics.
post #7 of 113
good attack with no sloppy overhang or boom and realistic tympanics.
__________________________________________________ ____

From your review I would think so and most likely would handle a scene like (24-A call to arms) contained in the dvd PEARL HARBOR rather nicely? It's the heavy duty machine-gun scene.
post #8 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
From your review I would think so and most likely would handle a scene like (24-A call to arms) contained in the dvd PEARL HARBOR rather nicely? It's the heavy duty machine-gun scene.


Steve:

I just played that scene on the STF-2 and it did just fine. Good staccato and definition between each firing round.

Ed
post #9 of 113
Good staccato and definition between each firing round.
__________________________________________________ _____

Thank you Ed. That was kind of you. Considering your impressions,history and measurements. I would think most to all would put their full confidence in your final assessment and rightly so.

(When operated within its clean limits, the STF-2 will reward the listener with smooth, well-defined bass and good in-room extension to 23 Hz, and represents an excellent value in the $400 subwoofer price class.)
post #10 of 113
Not that you need my approval, but very well done. If there were any doubts this sub is worth looking at in the $400 range, they can be erased.

-Robb
post #11 of 113
Other places could take a lesson from your work. So, was it ummmm....musical?
post #12 of 113
You have done it again Ed! Great review!
post #13 of 113
As a comparison (2m groundplane, 10% THD limit)

1 STF-2
20 Hz: 74.7 dB

1 PB2 Ultra (20hz tune)
20 Hz: 102.8 dB (9.4% THD amp limited)


Is the following progression correct?

1 STF-2
~75db @20hz 10% THD

2
81db

4
87db

8
93db

16
99db

32 STF-2's?
105db


At 50hz though, you only need about 2 of them for equivalent SPL's.
post #14 of 113
It's hard to feel any better about my STF-2, but you bumped it a little

Before the STF-2 I thought bass was neat, but it always gave me a headache. I can't stand more than 5 minutes of *boom**boom**boom* which is what 99% of the world apparently thinks composes bass, and all I had heard throughout my youth. Thanks to HSU I can finally enjoy bass like I always imagined: no headache, no fatigue, no BOOM.
post #15 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Other places could take a lesson from your work. So, was it ummmm....musical?

Ha, a loaded question. But you already knew that, Chu.

Was it musical? Sure, an accurate sub is a musical sub by default. All popular music I played on the STF-2 sounded natural and realistic.

Quote:
Before the STF-2 I thought bass was neat, but it always gave me a headache. I can't stand more than 5 minutes of *boom**boom**boom* which is what 99% of the world apparently thinks composes bass, and all I had heard throughout my youth. Thanks to HSU I can finally enjoy bass like I always imagined: no headache, no fatigue, no BOOM.

Boom is usually associated with a large peak in the 45-55 Hz region; the STF-2 displays none of that. I agree, the STF-2 always blends well with the mains and never draws undue attention to itself. It is easy to listen to for long periods of time without fatigue.
post #16 of 113
As always, great review Ed. I have been quite happy with my VTF-2 (in max extension) since I got it. The nice thing about the VTF-2 is that if you do have a larger room, you can at least try out max output mode - the sub tightens up a little while raising output levels, at the expense of some extension. I have noticed this sub struggle on the most demanding movie scenes (at higher SPLs) and some of my test music with some very low infrasonics - it doesn't omit them, but they are not so convincing in my relatively large room. That's why I'm still very interested in the PB-10 ISD...
post #17 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I have noticed this sub struggle on the most demanding movie scenes (at higher SPLs) and some of my test music with some very low infrasonics - it doesn't omit them, but they are not so convincing in my relatively large room.

Hi John:

There are so many variables that go into how loud a sub can play in a given room. But the two biggies are definitely room size and the distance to the listening position. SPL varies inversely with the square of the distance, so placing the subwoofer closer can really help improve its output levels.

I think Hsu Research got the basic formula right with the STF-2; shoot for a flat FR and good extension first. Then get as much output as possible (at this price point) without sacrificing the first two criteria.

It's a tough balancing act, and if a given sub doesn't have enough clean output at the listening position in a particular room, you can either 1) move the sub closer, 2) buy another one, or 3) buy a bigger version.

I do know that individual tastes for music/movie playback levels vary greatly; what might be way too loud for one person is pretty tame to another.

That's why I try to breakdown maximum output levels at the listening position a few different ways and let each reader decide for himself whether it's sufficient:

1) Dynamic Compression Limit: 108 dB
2) 10% THD (Hz/dB): 20/91, 25/100, 30/103
3) DVD Peaks With C-weighted SPL Meter: 100-105 dB (most scenes)

You can see all of these numbers really fall neatly into the same ballpark, and when assessed in total do accurately characterize what the STF-2 is capable of in my own HT room.

If I moved the subwoofer to maybe 6 feet away, it would be a whole different ball game, and these numbers would probably all jump 5-6 dB. That would be equal to adding another STF-2 at 12 feet; so sometimes placement is a cheap fix.
post #18 of 113
My sub is about 9' away. My problem is my room is almost perfectly square, except for the sloped vaulted ceiling, so I have a nice null on the left side of the couch, but good bass on the right (my side ). I have tried 3 subs and more than a few orientations and positions, but I still get a serious dip at the seating position. Moving the couch isn't really an option either... Best spot for the sub in this room doesn't matter because I am pretty much limited in where I can actually place it. It's in a corner giving it some decent reinforcement, but the problem persists. A BFD might be the next step. I just calibrate it a little hot and it is still satisfying under 95% of circumstances
post #19 of 113
Ed,
thanks for a very well written and fair review, I feel so much better now. I got my STF-2 back when CompUSA had 'em for $350 and feel like it's the second best bang for the buck item (next to my RS spl meter) in my entire system.

It's about the 4th or 5th sub I've owned, and among the cheapest, but is also the least boomy and most accurate sounding, definitely not tiring to listen to and capable of some real surprises.
post #20 of 113
Thread Starter 
You're most welcome, Steve.

Quote:
It's about the 4th or 5th sub I've owned, and among the cheapest, but is also the least boomy and most accurate sounding, definitely not tiring to listen to and capable of some real surprises.


The accurate sound and non-fatiguing character definitely comes from the flat frequency response (assuming you don't have major problems with room acoustics).

Yes, the STF-2 raised my eyebrows occasionally when it was pulling extended use HT duty. I was thinking "Damn! For a single 10" driver with one 3" vent, that little guy cranks out some pretty surprising levels of bass."

For music duty, I found it difficult to localize (a good thing), and it seemed to fill the entire sound stage easily. I often found myself glancing over at it (again with a bit of surprise), at its ability on music.
post #21 of 113
Another quickie tossed-off review from Ed...yawn.





Incredible, as usual!
post #22 of 113
Thanks for a very thorough and informative review. As always, Ed's reviews are great!
post #23 of 113
Quote:
Yes, the STF-2 raised my eyebrows occasionally when it was pulling extended use HT duty. I was thinking "Damn! For a single 10" driver with one 3" vent, that little guy cranks out some pretty surprising levels of bass."


Hmmmm. I can think of another little ported 10" sub, soon to be released, that I'd like to see in a head-to-head comaparo...

As usual Ed, superb analysis and review!
post #24 of 113
Thread Starter 
Jack, Kevin, Mike - thank you for the compliments; it makes doing future reviews worth it.

Quote:
Hmmmm. I can think of another little ported 10" sub, soon to be released, that I'd like to see in a head-to-head comaparo...


Sure, the PB10-ISD is a natural review choice at this price point. Mr. Gilvey, any interest in bringing your expertise up north and teaming up for a review? You could even bring one of your famous DIY creations and we'll wring it out and see how it performs. Beer's on me, and you can crash at my pad.

I was also thinking of testing the Adire Audio Rava, too. It's a different twist on the $400 subwoofer theme, being a 12" sealed unit. And the Rava seems to get a fair amount of press and interest, too. I emailed Dan Wiggins about reviewing one, and he seemed open to the idea, and asked some questions about test methodology, etc. I'll have to check and see if he got back to me again......
post #25 of 113
quote:

"Moby Dick contains one of the best drum solos ever recorded. The STF-2 displayed excellent attack and impact on the drum strikes, sounding tympanic with just the right amount of decay and no detectable overhang."

Ed, please, please...listen to something like Chick Correa and the Electric Band's or the Acoustic Band's recordings; Dave Weckl's drumming is phenomenal...absolutely mind blowing! Oh, yes...the drum set's and other instruments recorded sound was extremely well done and very dynamic.
For more drum and electric/acoustic bass guitar recordings of high recorded merit also try Stanley Clark's Journey To Love (track 6 in particular; Epic label, #EK 36974); Steve Gadd's [little Stevie from the original 50s The Mickey Mouse Club fame] drum solo in that track is truly awe inspiring! Jaco Pastorious Big Band Word Of Mouth Revisited (Heads Up label, #HUCD 3078) is another great recording to try out.

Also, I would love to see you avail the use of symphonic music recordings as acoustical music references when testing subs. They can reveal a wealth of vital and important sonic information in my estimation.

Anyway, another fantastic review, Ed! You're da man!!
Too bad Audio magazine and The Audio Critic aren't around anymore to snatch you as the in-house transducers reviewer.
Am truly impressed with your testing methodology...

Oh, one more thing...as good as this 'lil sub seems to be (something you have already proved with your very comprehensive tests), its output compression weaknesses point out to the need for the use of either multiple drivers per sub or a number of subbass units to help mitigate or eliminate such sonic flaws.

I think that it would be terrific if you were to test SVS' new 10"-bass driver based sub, which is priced the same as the HSU's little sub. I hope to see it soon!...

-THTS

"...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."
post #26 of 113
I think that it would be terrific if you were to test SVS' new 10"-bass driver based sub, which is priced the same as the HSU's little sub. I hope to see it soon!...
__________________________________________________ __

I'm all for that, but no surprise there.:b Your other choices sound interesting also Ed.
post #27 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Ed, please, please...listen to something like Chick Correa and the Electric Band's or the Acoustic Band's recordings; Dave Weckl's drumming is phenomenal...absolutely mind blowing! Oh, yes...the drum set's and other instruments recorded sound was extremely well done and very dynamic.

Thanks, Frank. There is a difference between "one of the best drum solo's ever recorded", and "one of the best recordings of a drum solo".

Don't have either of those releases....how about MFSL's Original Master Recording of "Together Again - For the First Time" Mel Torme and Buddy Rich?

I "try" to mix up music on the reviews, so it's not all the same boring stuff. There is only one duplicate here vs. the PB2-Ultra review for example.

Quote:
Also, I would love to see you avail the use of symphonic music recordings as acoustical music references when testing subs. They can reveal a wealth of vital and important sonic information in my estimation.

Much of my classical collection left with the house one day without my permission. It is slowly getting rebuilt. One of the better ones I have for good bass (powerful kettles) is Tchaikovsky Symphony No. 6 Opus 74 in B Minor, 'Pathetique in 20/16 bit format.

I've also got Pomp & Pipes, which also has awesome kettle strikes and deep organ, but the 32' pipe organ (16-17 Hz) is simply too deep for the STF-2 to reproduce properly. Not a knock against the product per se, it's simply not rated to go that deep.

Quote:
Oh, one more thing...as good as this 'lil sub seems to be (something you have already proved with your very comprehensive tests), its output compression weaknesses point out to the need for the use of either multiple drivers per sub or a number of subbass units to help mitigate or eliminate such sonic flaws.

I hear you, but you need to keep in mind the price point. We're used to subwoofer systems that can produce 115 dB @ 20 Hz at the seat with less than 10% distortion. That's not going to happen at the $400 price point.

This sub needs to be judged within that frame of reference and against its peers, and not on an absolute basis. That's why I was careful in the review to state the output limits objectively, and let the reader decide whether it's powerful enough for his/her needs. For some people, the STF-2 will be all they will ever need in terms of clean output. For others, it won't be enough; that's why Hsu offers stuff like dual TN1220 with 400 x 2 amp at the $1,800 price point.

Quote:
I think that it would be terrific if you were to test SVS' new 10"-bass driver based sub, which is priced the same as the HSU's little sub. I hope to see it soon!...

SVS is apparently getting out several "review" PB10-ISD's, and I have asked to be on the list. Things look positive, and stay tuned.

Quote:
Your other choices sound interesting also Ed.
Haven't heard back from Dan Wiggins yet; I'll drop a dime tomorrow and see where he stands.

Ed
post #28 of 113
quote:

"I'm all for that, but no surprise there."

I hope I am not misinterpreting your words Steve, but just to clarify my position...it is not that another sub was conceived and made by SVS (I trust you believe when I say that I can be quite impartial when the need arises); rather, it is what promises to be one hell of a performing 'lil sub just by judging the stuff that was posted by its creators (am sure you already did, but have you seen the 'lil sub's chart included in SVS' Web page? Mama mia! )...

-THTS

"...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."
post #29 of 113
quote:

"There is a difference between 'one of the best drum solo's ever recorded', and 'one of the best recordings of a drum solo'. "

Umm...OK...Yet I'll better check that recording soon and hear for meself what you're talking about.
I guess I let my deep love for my drumming idols (being that I played drums for a long time and tried to learn and emulate them; now my son Steve plays 'em; he's a monster on our 9-piece, double bass drum Tama set, let me tell 'ya!) and the medium get the better of me. :b I'll try to do better next time!

"Don't have either of those releases....how about MFSL's Original Master Recording of 'Together Again - For the First Time' Mel Torme and Buddy Rich?"

Great recording! But then Buddy was another drumming idol of mine (I had the immense pleasure of seeing him play with his big band live--along with Loui Bellson, another idol of mine--at the Redlands university concert hall back in the late 70s. Not too long after that evening Buddy underwent quadruple bypass surgery; he was actually having cardiac arrest episodes during the course of that concert! What a showman), so am a bit biased.
By the way...I also love Mel Torme's ("The Velvet Fog") voice too...
You might also consider Mel Lewis' big band recording on the Telarc label. That one truly is one of the most realistically captured imaging of a drum set along with a big band I've ever heard in recorded form, I kid you not!
Of course, you could also try the Tower Of Power recording on the Sheffield label (was released on vinyl in a direct-to-disc form originally, but the CD sonics does transport listeners right into the recording venue just as well! Superb recording).

"I 'try' to mix up music on the reviews, so it's not all the same boring stuff. There is only one duplicate here vs. the PB2-Ultra review for example."

Got 'ya, Ed...

"Much of my classical collection left with the house one day without my permission. It is slowly getting rebuilt. One of the better ones I have for good bass (powerful kettles) is Tchaikovsky Symphony No. 6 Opus 74 in B Minor, 'Pathetique in 20/16 bit format."

Sorry to hear that, Ed.
By the way, have you heard his 1812 Overture on Telarc's label? Phew! Simply phenomenal.
I could suggest a number of classical music recordings which I think might be of help if you wish...

"I've also got Pomp & Pipes, which also has awesome kettle strikes and deep organ, but the 32' pipe organ (16-17 Hz) is simply too deep for the STF-2 to reproduce properly. Not a knock against the product per se, it's simply not rated to go that deep."

You're absolutely correct...about the Hsu sub; I fully concur...

"I hear you, but you need to keep in mind the price point. We're used to subwoofer systems that can produce 115 dB @ 20 Hz at the seat with less than 10% distortion. That's not going to happen at the $400 price point.

This sub needs to be judged within that frame of reference and against its peers, and not on an absolute basis. That's why I was careful in the review to state the output limits objectively, and let the reader decide whether it's powerful enough for his/her needs. For some people, the STF-2 will be all they will ever need in terms of clean output. For others, it won't be enough; that's why Hsu offers stuff like dual TN1220 with 400 x 2 amp at the $1,800 price point."

I see you point and fully agree with 'ya...

"SVS is apparently getting out several 'review' PB10-ISD's, and I have asked to be on the list. Things look positive, and stay tuned."

Indeed I will, Ed 'cus reading your stuff, among other few authors, helps me from becoming totally insane!
Keep up the great work you're doing...

-THTS

"hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."
post #30 of 113
Thread Starter 
Don't get me wrong Frank, the drummers and recordings you listed are among the best ever. I just think Moby Dick is a stand out drum solo in rock history, despite have "just OK" recording quality (lotso tape hiss, but dynamics and tonality are decent enough).

Your enthusiasm for (and knowledge of) music is infectious. Anytime you want to make recommendations, my ears are open.

Quote:
By the way, have you heard his 1812 Overture on Telarc's label? Phew! Simply phenomenal.

Oh, I've heard it, just not since it left the house. :b Another to replace, and a sub wrecker if there ever was one. WARNING - DIGITAL CANNONS
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