The Invaders - Page 9

Re: The Invaders

I take this to mean that the prints, in all likelihood, have never looked better and indeed the screen captures demonstrate this. I'm very relieved and pleased at just how sharp the images are and how well balanced the colors appear.

The review of "The Invaders" as a series leaves a lot to be desired, though and I wish this line appearing near the end had instead been slightly altered to "I'm going to complain at length about this series" and placed in the opening paragraph--that way I'd know to skip to the end and read about the audio/visual qualities of the set. I also wish reviewers were required to post their age. That's about the best barometer I can think of in deciding if reading a review is a potential time-waster.

Re: The Invaders

Harry

Surely 'The Prisoner' was a UK series made foremost for UK TV. Hence the original UK broadcast would be the one at the correct speed , whilst 'The Invaders' original US broadcast would be the correct speed.

Incidentally if I run a Region 1 import on my player it plays at the correct (i.e.longer) time, don't know how this works in reverse.

If however I play a Region 2 version of a Region 1 show there is a slight speed-up, however I have never noticed it & wouldn't even know except for the noting the end running time.

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Someone help me out here.

Aren't all films made at 24fps? Regardless of country of origin? Isn't that just the standard for film?

Now, isn't it also true that in the UK, in order to properly show a film, the television transmission company has to speed it up to 25fps in order to avoid a flickering mess?

So, am I correct in my stance that THE PRISONER (and indeed all filmed series) broadcast in the UK had to have a 4% speed-up in order to be broadcast?

If I'm wrong in my assumptions, someone with authority please correct me.

Here, by the way, is an online sample of the speedup I'm hearing in THE PRISONER from the album THE PRISONER FILE #2 (from Amazon.com's sound samples):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-p...639584-5978062

Though I hear Mr. McGoohan's voice at a higher pitch, it's actually more "chipmunky" (IMHO) with Eric Portman's voice (he's the one playing Number 2 in this episode).

For those of you in PAL countries, it may sound perfectly normal, but here in the US, our TV stations ran the episodes at their "normal" speed. I hear the difference, and it bothers me.

Harry

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Not quite. 24fps is the standard for cinema releases and US television. For many years, if a show was made primarily for European consumption, British filmed series were shot at 25fps, to avoid the speed-up issue, which includes many current shows that are made on film, like Hex and Doc Martin.

But, back to The Invaders, I'd say that, yes, I think you are right in that The Invaders would be time-speed, if (and only if) Paramount UK made their masters from the film elements.

If, however, their PAL dubbing masters are simply standards-conversions of NTSC tape masters (taken from the film), then the sound should be just fine. It all depends on what the masters come from.

[EDIT:] The DVD Times review says 17 x 48 minutes, so that sounds like sped-up episodes to me. An episode of The Invaders sound run between 50-52 minutes, and sadly, this seems to confirm my suspicions of A). no extras and B). not even the longer, unaired version of Beach Head. Bugger!


Unless it was shot at 25fps to start with, or if it's a standards-conversion from an NTSC tape source.


That I am not sure of. If I had to guess, I'd say it was probably shot at 25fps, but you'd have to ask a Prisoner expert on that one (perhaps on Roobarb's forum), so it is possible we might've been getting an NTSC image that plays 4% slow.

I think I remember reading elsewhere that Space: 1999 was shot at a non-standard fps (23? 25?) to avoid "flicker/rolling" problems with the closed-circuit TV monitors that feature throughout the moonbase, and that special notes were made to the directors to do the same with the sound, so that they could be sure it would match the live-action (might've been the BBC Resources article on the remastering project).

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Andy, did you listen to the sound sample I provide? Does this sound fast to you?

Harry

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Oh dear. I'm afraid there's evidence of sloppy authoring on this set; one owner has viwed nine out of the seventeen episodes in this set, and has found that subtitles unwantedly pop in in three episodes. Only very briefly, and of sound effects (such as "door opens").

However, that they crop up in three out of nine episodes does not bode well. I don;t think I;ve ever heard of subtitles popping up unexpectedly like that, when they are turned off.

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Well, Richard just as you've been frustrated by having to wait out the R2 releases for "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" to avoid DVD-14 "flipper" discs, looks like perhaps 'the shoe is on the other foot' with my wait for an R1 "Invaders". And I'm still having a very hard seeing past the cover design.

Re: The Invaders

Richard,

Thanks for the info on the subtitle bug. Could you let us know if anyone else that has bought the UK set is having this problem? I also have not ever seen a problem with popup subtitles on any of my std DVD's.

Have you heard anything about whether the episodes in the UK set are the complete versions and not the edited versions?

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I don't own the set myself, yet - budget is a bit tight this month...but if you look at the review linked to above, in dvdtimes, it too notes the subtitle issue as well. It's not awful, by any means, but it shouldn't happen, and it's bloody annoying to have waited so long, only to get a flawed product.

The sad thing is that I rather suspect the upcoming Australian release will be identical - in fact, it would not suprise me if the releases in both countries are coded for region 2 AND region 4 to save making new masters/duplication runs for individually coded regions...this is not uncommon with titles that are released in both countries.

As I said, I don't think I have ever heard of this problem before - obviously, DVD authoring allows for forced subtitles that can't be turned off (probably at the insistence of the French!), but an authoring screwup that causes them to pop up unexpectedly?

Sadly I see no chance at all of a re-issue to fix it (this is Paramount, after all - if only it were Warner...)

As far as I know the episodes are uncut. They are certainly marked as being uncut at the BBFC (the British censor) and the runtimes look about right. The only possible cuts would be pre-certificate ones...they are cuts that studios make, voluntarily, to material before submitting it to be certified. This is usually done to ensure that a show/film achieves a certain rating without any issues.

Given the nature of The Invaders, I think it highly unlikely that there was anything that needed to be cut to achieve the PG (Parental Guidance) rating awarded to nearly all the episodes. I don;t recall there being anything controversial in the show!

I do know that there is no extended "Beachhead" on there.

Incidentally I gave up on there being any Uk release of Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea ages ago, and luckily the DVD-14's I have so far have been fine....

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Richard, you're most likely correct about the duplicate releases for R2/4. The 2 Bionic 70's series' releases are identical except for a Dutch language option in the Australian sets. However, see later in the post for an interesting release date for the R4/Au set.


Richard, thanks for the info on the cut-ep issue. I was thinking about the "cuts" as it relates to the "syndicated" episode versions as we refer to them in the states. Those versions typically have approx 2-4 min's of scenes removed from those versions to allow for more "commercial" time when they are aired in syndication across the U.S. That's usually the only "deal-breaker" for me when deciding on a TV/DVD set.


That's the main reason that I went "Region-Free" , to buy studio versions of R2/4 sets that, maybe, will get an R1 release someday. In spite of my "region-free" status, I still believe that most TV/DVD sets will see releases across most of the major global regions.

I'm thinking that I may "live" with the subtitle issue if it's a momentary "glitch" on the discs. Since the eps themselves are the uncut originally-aired versions, I might bite the bullet on the R2 set since this is a series that's one of my "must-have's".

FYI, for stateside Invaders fanatics This set is up at EZDVD.COM (the Au) store) showing a release date of 11/08/07. I wonder if there's a chance that, by that time, the subtitle issue may be fixed with thie release. Or, perhaps, better yet, the Au sets may be shipped from the Mfgr wihout the subtitle bugs present.

I'll e-mail their Cust Svc Dept to let them know of the problems with the UK sets. I've purchased a few DVD's from EZDVD and their Cust Svc has excellent e-mail/reply communications. Plus, the shipping to the states, after your initial order, is faster than I'd have expected from an overseas store.

If I take the R2/4 plunge on this one, I'll get this at EZDVD since their currency exchange rates are lower than the UK's rates.

Here's the U.S. prices as of today for both sets: (does not include shipping costs)

UK set: £22.98 = $45.93 U.S.
Au set: $AU44.83 = $37.44 U.S.

Link to the EZDVD Au store page:

http://www.ezydvd.com.au/item.zml/796154

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The BBFC lists all the episodes at being just short of 50 minutes long.

Allowing for the 4% speedup in the transfer to PAL video, it sounds very much as though these episodes are not cut in any way.

When this show was made, a little over fifty minutes was about right for an "hour show".

It would not be now, because there are more and longer ad breaks.

Old "hour shows" (even ones made in the UK at the BBC, they had an eye on exporting them to networks that carried adverts even though the BBC itself did not) run to about fifty minutes (Star Trek:TOS, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea...etc etc).

New "hour shows" generally run to 45 minutes or so, because they have to allow for more and longer breaks.

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I'd say it's 99.9% certain that the original films were telecined at 25fps, as PAL releases of NTSC film-shot material have been released that way for some years. Even tape-based NTSC material is sped up nowadays using DEFT conversions, as these are better quality pictures than the older non-DEFT conversions that weren't sped up (a classic example is the original UK VHS release of 'Star Trek: The Next Generation', where seasons 1 & 2 were pre-DEFT - correct sound, fairly muddy-looking picture - whereas season 3 onwards was DEFT-converted - noticeable speed-up, but better quality picture).


I remember that discussion (either on Roobarb's or the Doctor Who Technical Forum). As I recall, it was shot 24fps like all ITC filmed series, but that a certain amount was shot at 25fps for the reason you state. Also, some of the ADR sound was at 25fps, leading to some changes in pitch between location speech and ADR sound. It seems that trying to pin a true speed on 'Space:1999' is problematic to say the least!

Generally, though, virtually all TV shot in the UK was (and is) at 25fps for the PAL system. This includes all filmed series, for example (picking on Agatha Christie at random) 'Miss Marple' (on the BBC) and 'Poirot' (on ITV). The only exceptions I know of were the 35mm film-based series shot by Lew Grade's ITC in the 60s and 70s, such as 'The Prisoner', which were filmed at 24fps for the US export market and shown sped-up on ITV in the UK.

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Oh, I can confirm that the French discs not only have forced French subtitles on the English track, but also, the episode titles have been replaced with French versions, too.

Got this from an Invaders fan in France.

Oh well.

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Sacre bleu! No Eiffel Tower CGI'd into the backgrounds?

Harry

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Thanks for the info, Jonathan! I knew the bulk of UKtv was shot at 25, but since Grade's stuff was aimed at worldwide distribution, wasn't totally sure about the ITC shows (and The Prisoner in particular). Let's hope that an improved version (like the upcoming Network package) makes its way to the USA now that A&E's licence on the Carlton catalogue has/will be expired.

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The CBS Paramount UK Region 2 DVD's of THE INVADERS do look like they were made from the same master tapes distributed and broadcast in the UK, and not laser scanned or cleaned up like the old Trek series recently was. Dust specks in the new DVD's and the older broadcast dates in the UK (taken off satellite recording) match.

PRISTINE SOURCE ELEMENTS ONLY PLEASE!!!!!

At this point things really don't sound very promising at all as apparently NO restoration and digitally remastering of the 35mm source elements used for THE INVADERS Region 2 release was done...something that to me is totally unacceptable!

I would like to feel that a (possible) Region 1 DVD release is not immediately forthcoming because restoration of the 35mm source elements to be utilized is currently in progress...but what is the likeliness that this will come about?

It sounds like the Region 2 release is in passable condition comparable to THE OUTER LIMITS - THE ORIGINAL SERIES, VOLUMES ONE and TWO sets but nothing really outstanding like the VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA and THE TIME TUNNEL DVD releases.

This may prove to be another major disappointment like THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN multi-season sets.

Jeff T.

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JeffT,

You're 100% right about this being a big disappointment and, to me, a surprise that the R2 xfr's weren't remastered. I had previously gotten my hopes up assuming that this release would get a 1st-rate xfr release. After reading Tom's post about the xfrs, I'm holding off on getting that R2 set. I wonder if there's any significance in the later release of the R4 Australian set coming in November (Thu Nov 8th)? Is it possible that this set would be the remastered set? I guess that would be unlikely given the short time span between the R2 & R4 release dates.

I sent an e-mail to EZDVD.COM (Australia) about this set and received the standard "no information available yet" reply. I'll try another e-mail in a couple of weeks. I mentioned the subtitle "bug" that's present in the UK release in the e-mail sent to EZDVD.

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I've watched 5 episodes of the UK R2 Invaders and it looks darn fine to me. Maybe not pristine, but as good as any TV series from that period that I have seen.

I had never seen The Invaders, it was never shown in Sweden afaik, so I really looked forward to this release. I can obviously not compare it to the broadcast, but I'm more than happy with the way it looks.

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Very little chance of this. The discs are probably identical. Literally. It would not suprise me to find that they are even both R2 and R4 coded. Since that is the only technical difference between UK and Australian DVD's (and of course, the ratings mark on the packaging).

For example, the Doctor Who discs are identical, and they are coded both R2 and R4.

I can;t see Paramount shelling out to re-author and produce new masters for an Australian release. They're too cheap for that.

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Just a guess. It's possible that Paramount/CBS cleaned up the film prints back in 2005 and used the DVD video masters for the UK broadcasts too and that's why they match the satellite recordings. For an old show with 40 year old film prints they did a great job. No fading, few dust specks or hairs and rich colors. Finally, THE INVADERS have landed!!

Now we need season 2 to come soon.

Tom

P.S. Here's another peek at my "Invaders" DVD box designs. I'd hoped Paramount would have used something like this.
(NOTE: These are not bootlegs, just empty boxes and empty disk designs I did for myself).

WHAT ABOUT THE 'FIRST' SEASON?!!!!!

This have proven to be an extremely tough nut to crack.

We are still waiting for a Region 1 DVD release of THE INVADERS in North America!

I honestly don't think that there are multi-region players in my country which may well be against the law here...or at least discouraged!

I would like to feel that the wait for a Region 1 DVD release is due to Paramount Pictures-CBS Television Home Entertainment preparing spanking new pristine 35mm video transfers and trying to determine just how far they can go in marketing this particular tv premium (pertaining to bonus extras).

Tom's excellent packing designs capture the true visual quality and feel of the original 1960s SF tv series and should (logically) serve as a source of inspiration in something similar to be employed in an actual DVD release.

Frankly, I would like to see this finally launched as there are other tv series that I would to focus on and lobby for as potential DVD releases.

Jeff T.

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Watching the R2 set at the moment, and really enjoying it, they look pretty darn good to me. The subs issue doesn't bother me, since I always watch with subs on, even though I'm not deaf of HOH. The box design sucks, but the content is what counts.

RESTORATION OF THE INVADERS!!!!!!

I just viewed the first episode of THE FUGITIVE titled "Search in a Desert City" and irregardless of the digital restoration and remastering work utilizing the original 35mm source elements there was still noticable print wear evident on the righthand side of the image which persisted for the entire duration of the presentation. So despite the seeming best efforts these things still do not come out perfectly exact.

The tv prints do not exhibit this selfsame defeat (or flaw) so why weren't the identical source elements used to produce them not also employed for the DVD release as well?!

For some strange reason the main opening title with a scene of a large bullfrog merrily croaking away in a swamp was deleted...which really doesn't make any kind of sense for the necessity of this unneccessary measure!

Right now I have to wonder just what is holding up a North American (Region 1) DVD release of THE INVADERS. My (reasoned) sensibilities will not accept that THE INVADERS is not in high demand here so something must definitely be up pertaining to its preparation...it is the only logical conclusion that I can come to!

However, if Paramount Pictures-CBS Television Home Entertainment has any doubts about this particular tv property's commercial viability (which is absolute nonsense) then THE INVADERS can be easily licensed out to one of the independent distribution companies whom I am sure would enthusiatically welcome the opportunity to market it.

It is NOT Paramount's responsiblity in such a situation to deliberately suppress this classic 1960s SF tv series...a move that can only arouse considerable controversy and public resentment!

Jeff T.

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Like it or not Jeff, Paramount owns an enormous amount of successful television properties, many of them with far longer runs than 43 episodes. They will get to The Invaders at some point but they have shows that were way more popular they haven't even touched yet, like Beverly Hillbillies which was highly rated for many years. We all want our shows but there is a pecking order and The Invaders is pretty far down the list.

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Jeff, I think you'll find that aside from this artifact (a persistent, but not terribly distracting line on the right hand side of the image) for this episode the remaining episodes look very clean indeed. Would that all episodes on the "Route 66" set were to look as "bad" as Ep. 1 of "The Fugitive".

Psst. By the way, Jeff it's "Fear in a Windy City"...wait minute... aww heck with it, we know what you mean.

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We had quite a discussion over in the FUGITIVE thread about the strangeness of that first episode. Thinking back, there was of course the right-side artifact, the shortened opening instead of the long opening, the missing frog, and the apparent edit between the first half of the opening and the second half.

We didn't resolve anything, other than observing it, but it's agreed all around that the subsequent episodes were much better in terms of quality and consitency with original airings.

I'm content to wait for an official release of THE INVADERS in R1. It'll happen eventually, I suppose. Meantime, I'm enjoying the MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE releases, the VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA releases, and I'm still wading through the LAND OF THE GIANTS. There's only so much time in the day!

Harry
...Nightmare on the North Side of the Mountain?...Decision in Hollywood?...Terror at Little Egypt?...

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I am as well in light of issues relating to possible edits, subtitles and print quality issues. And it's still awfully hard to get past that terrible box art. Jeff, "The Invaders" will get released soon, I am positive of it and it will be a better release than what was released for R2. The door to the QM shows is only opening wider in the tv/dvd market. I really believe that future strong sales with subsequent "Fugitive" releases will pave the way for "The Invaders" soon.

Just finished watching: "Mission: Impossible" S2 ('The Killing'--nice one!)

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I am also going to wait for an R1 release. The subtitle bug was enough for me to pass on this one for now.

Funny, Harry..... "Ticket to Fatso", "Smoke in a Corner"

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Glass Screen?...See Alaska and Wave Goodbye?...The Witch In The Ring?...

Can't you just hear William Conrad intoning these fractured titles?

Harry