Babylon 5: Should I invest my money and time? ANSWER IN POST #500 - Page 3

Well, as of this year, I view it on my slightly inferior setup - 90" or so Infocus X1 DLP. The shimmery stretchy artifacts on the bigger image are sometimes noticeable. I feel it is worth it, but I was just warning, because it really bugs some people.


Quality show. Next best thing to a good series of books. Sometimes better . And that's saying a lot from me (Avid sci-fi/fantasy book reader since 5th grade).

Much grittier and more realistic (as far as people). Has a very strong fantasy feel at times though, and pay attention for some really excellent foreshadowing. An occasional really good experimental ep (the Psi-corp ep and a couple of the ISN News eps come to mind) also helps out the mix.

But don't judge it on the pilot!

Well, as of this year, I view it on my slightly inferior setup - 90" or so Infocus X1 DLP. The shimmery stretchy artifacts on the bigger image are sometimes noticeable. I feel it is worth it, but I was just warning, because it really bugs some people.


Quality show. Next best thing to a good series of books. Sometimes better . And that's saying a lot from me (Avid sci-fi/fantasy book reader since 5th grade).

Much grittier and more realistic (as far as people). Has a very strong fantasy feel at times though, and pay attention for some really excellent foreshadowing. An occasional really good experimental ep (the Psi-corp ep and a couple of the ISN News eps come to mind) also helps out the mix.

But don't judge it on the pilot!

I, too, was a total noob when it came to B5. So far I've bought the first 3 seasons and the pilot blind. No regrets. I just got done with season 2. While I'm not sure I'm ready to say "best sci-fi series ever", it is getting really good. About midway through season 2 is where it really picked up for me.
That CH deal is a definite no brainer. I just wish they offered seasons 4 and 5.

I, too, was a total noob when it came to B5. So far I've bought the first 3 seasons and the pilot blind. No regrets. I just got done with season 2. While I'm not sure I'm ready to say "best sci-fi series ever", it is getting really good. About midway through season 2 is where it really picked up for me.
That CH deal is a definite no brainer. I just wish they offered seasons 4 and 5.

I can't believe our resident B5 expert hasn't chimed in..Joe DeMartino. He can give the best info.

I can't believe our resident B5 expert hasn't chimed in..Joe DeMartino. He can give the best info.

Well, I disagree to a certain extent. I think he had more good dialog moments than bad ones, it is just the bad ones tend to stand out more.

I also think, considering the amount of episodes he wrote, you are going to have some clunkers, especially on the time schedule and his other responsibilities as creator.

He may not be Joss Whedon, but I liked most of his dialog.

Jason

Well, I disagree to a certain extent. I think he had more good dialog moments than bad ones, it is just the bad ones tend to stand out more.

I also think, considering the amount of episodes he wrote, you are going to have some clunkers, especially on the time schedule and his other responsibilities as creator.

He may not be Joss Whedon, but I liked most of his dialog.

Jason

I think it was Rod Serling of Twilight Zone fame who wrote that in TV you're lucky if 1/3 of your shows are very good, a 1/3 pretty good and only 1/3 are lousy. The pressures of time and money and "I don't need it good, I need it Thursday" are such that it you're doing very well indeed if 2/3 of your output is OK or better, and only every third episode is a clunker.

Think about most TV shows that have ever aired, and you'll see the math works out pretty well. I loved the original Trek, which at its best was magnificent, but I think more than a third of its shows were mediocre or worse. (Including pretty much the whole third season.) And I don't exempt Serling himself. As Stephen King has pointed out, The Twilight Zone itself is a pretty good example of "the rule of thirds" and Serling himself wrote a lot of the dogs, as well as a lot of the gems.

One reason a series like The Sopranos can beat these odds is that they aren't locked into tell 22 stories year in and year out, whether or not they have 22 good ideas for stories at the beginning of each season. They can tell as many stories as the executive producer wants to tell in a given "season" and they can take a year off when they feel like it. So such shows simply cannot be compared to series produced under the pressure of broadcast network ratings-or-die, gotta fill those time-slots pressure. Even The Sheild has the advantages of a short, planned season and the lower expectations and greater flexibility of first-run cable.

B5 beats the "rule of thirds" by a mile. Even the harshest critics are hard-pressed to come up with even a half-dozen really "bad" episodes out of 110. And even those almost all have a "B" or "C" story that makes up for any deficiancies of the "A" plot. (One of the most-maligned episodes of the whole show, "Grey 17 is Missing", has a "B" story that is not only great in itself, but sets up a major event that takes place in the following season)

Regards,

Joe

I think it was Rod Serling of Twilight Zone fame who wrote that in TV you're lucky if 1/3 of your shows are very good, a 1/3 pretty good and only 1/3 are lousy. The pressures of time and money and "I don't need it good, I need it Thursday" are such that it you're doing very well indeed if 2/3 of your output is OK or better, and only every third episode is a clunker.

Think about most TV shows that have ever aired, and you'll see the math works out pretty well. I loved the original Trek, which at its best was magnificent, but I think more than a third of its shows were mediocre or worse. (Including pretty much the whole third season.) And I don't exempt Serling himself. As Stephen King has pointed out, The Twilight Zone itself is a pretty good example of "the rule of thirds" and Serling himself wrote a lot of the dogs, as well as a lot of the gems.

One reason a series like The Sopranos can beat these odds is that they aren't locked into tell 22 stories year in and year out, whether or not they have 22 good ideas for stories at the beginning of each season. They can tell as many stories as the executive producer wants to tell in a given "season" and they can take a year off when they feel like it. So such shows simply cannot be compared to series produced under the pressure of broadcast network ratings-or-die, gotta fill those time-slots pressure. Even The Sheild has the advantages of a short, planned season and the lower expectations and greater flexibility of first-run cable.

B5 beats the "rule of thirds" by a mile. Even the harshest critics are hard-pressed to come up with even a half-dozen really "bad" episodes out of 110. And even those almost all have a "B" or "C" story that makes up for any deficiancies of the "A" plot. (One of the most-maligned episodes of the whole show, "Grey 17 is Missing", has a "B" story that is not only great in itself, but sets up a major event that takes place in the following season)

Regards,

Joe

Ron
Definately go for it, I will add to those who say this is the best Sci-Fi TV series ever and I would put it in the top 5 SCI-FI TV or Movies ever. But as others have mentioned you do need to be patient. The 1st season is alot better after you've viewed the whole series once. You should be hooked just past the half way mark of season 2. You probably will not understand why all the "Best Sci-Fi Show ever" comments until you've finished Season 3. Then you may or may not agree. I find the special effects on par with DS9 or TNG after Season one so I always scratch my head at the low budget and poor effects comments. In fact a buddy of mine always thought B5 had a huge budget and bigger than any of the Star Trek shows until I told him it actually had a fairly low budget.



This always puzzles me as well. Sometimes the dialogue is good and sometimes its not but I find this true with just about any TV show. The acting, story, sets and FX all work together to make a great and unique SCI-FI epic. It at many times has a dark film noir feel to it.
So by all means give it a chance Ron and let us know what you think. Just be prepared to be a little patient, it really does get better and better until the end of season 4.

Ron
Definately go for it, I will add to those who say this is the best Sci-Fi TV series ever and I would put it in the top 5 SCI-FI TV or Movies ever. But as others have mentioned you do need to be patient. The 1st season is alot better after you've viewed the whole series once. You should be hooked just past the half way mark of season 2. You probably will not understand why all the "Best Sci-Fi Show ever" comments until you've finished Season 3. Then you may or may not agree. I find the special effects on par with DS9 or TNG after Season one so I always scratch my head at the low budget and poor effects comments. In fact a buddy of mine always thought B5 had a huge budget and bigger than any of the Star Trek shows until I told him it actually had a fairly low budget.



This always puzzles me as well. Sometimes the dialogue is good and sometimes its not but I find this true with just about any TV show. The acting, story, sets and FX all work together to make a great and unique SCI-FI epic. It at many times has a dark film noir feel to it.
So by all means give it a chance Ron and let us know what you think. Just be prepared to be a little patient, it really does get better and better until the end of season 4.

Nothing much to add really, except that I have a hard time getting into other TV shows because I have been spoilt by the storytelling of this amazing series.

Well then?!

Anyway, DO NOT WATCH "IN THE BEGINNING" UNTIL SOMETIME IN SEASON4.

Just ignore the movies altogether for now.

--
H

Nothing much to add really, except that I have a hard time getting into other TV shows because I have been spoilt by the storytelling of this amazing series.

Well then?!

Anyway, DO NOT WATCH "IN THE BEGINNING" UNTIL SOMETIME IN SEASON4.

Just ignore the movies altogether for now.

--
H

I don't know what to add that hasn't been said already. I can tell you that I currently have about 7 TV box sets that are just sitting there because I'm watch Babylon 5: Season 5 at the moment. The other sets are things I've seen once or twice if at all. I've seen B5: S5 I'd guess at least 10 times since it aired. It's easily my favorite show.

I'd also recommend skipping In The Beginning. As for The Gathering, watch if you get the opportunity, but if you don't get around to it till later, you won't be missing much.

I don't know what to add that hasn't been said already. I can tell you that I currently have about 7 TV box sets that are just sitting there because I'm watch Babylon 5: Season 5 at the moment. The other sets are things I've seen once or twice if at all. I've seen B5: S5 I'd guess at least 10 times since it aired. It's easily my favorite show.

I'd also recommend skipping In The Beginning. As for The Gathering, watch if you get the opportunity, but if you don't get around to it till later, you won't be missing much.

Throw in another vote for best sci-fi series ever. This is actually my favorite TV show of all time, and I have been a major Star Trek fan for as long as I can remember. No, I haven't seen The Sopranos, but I just don't get into that genre. I can vouch for the sometimes poor video quality when used on a big screen though. My screen is only 72" wide (works out to 82" diagonal at 16:9), and there are scenes which are quite blurry and/or grainy. I tried watching it zoomed way in at a smaller size for a while. While the picture was better, I just loved the impact of the larger size, and the storytelling is so good that in short order I quickly learned to ignore the less than stellar image quality.


Aaron Gilbert

Throw in another vote for best sci-fi series ever. This is actually my favorite TV show of all time, and I have been a major Star Trek fan for as long as I can remember. No, I haven't seen The Sopranos, but I just don't get into that genre. I can vouch for the sometimes poor video quality when used on a big screen though. My screen is only 72" wide (works out to 82" diagonal at 16:9), and there are scenes which are quite blurry and/or grainy. I tried watching it zoomed way in at a smaller size for a while. While the picture was better, I just loved the impact of the larger size, and the storytelling is so good that in short order I quickly learned to ignore the less than stellar image quality.


Aaron Gilbert

B5 really is an accomplishment. To be able to run a huge plot through 5 and deal with all the changes that circumstances throw at you, and still have something that works out this well, is pretty darn amazing.

Jason

Yep...as everyone has said best scifi tv show ever. Only way I could justify springing ~$250 for the 5 season set.

I have noticed that varied pic quality. Certain scenes look great, that others like blurry in comparison. The story more than makes up for it!!

* Best Sci FI TV series I have ever watched, and I am a sci fi nut. I actually take it one step more and state that is my favorite TV series of all time.

* If you enjoy long story form, you will love this series

* If you enjoy character development, you will love this series. Too many people gave up on the series early because of Londo but soon enough he became one of the greatest TV characters ever IMO.

* However, since it is long story form, DO NOT judge the series on the first few episiodes. As many have mentioned on here, by the middle of season 2 things take off, and you will be swept away by all of seasons 3 and 4, just too brilliant for words

* DO NOT watch or listen to ANY of the extras

This can not be stated strongly enough. The story telling provides for some very strong moments, some of which are defining moments for the entire story. Having these spoiled would SIGNIFICANTLY reduce your frrst time enjoyment

* The series has wonderful rewatch value. As mentioned before, some of the defining moments of the series are built from many many smaller moments some of which at first watch you would think are insignificant. So it is fun to go back an rewatch to look for clues etc

* I would also rent The Gathering to start with. Please remember that it is a pilot and many things change by the first episode but it will give you a baseline to work from.


I hope you do give the show a try. It is arc story telling at its best IMO.

Let us know if you do delve into it.

Andy

Also, you may want to bump past the opening titles of the first couple of episodes of Season 2, so as to avoid spoilers.

I'll add my two cents...

A friend of mine loaned me The Gathering and Season One. She told me to watch The Gathering, but warned me quite emphatically not to judge the show on that episode. She was so strong in her warning that the pilot wasn't that great that I went into it with severely lowered expectations. And I found I really enjoyed the pilot much more than I expected. I eagerly went on to season one, and found that there were a few clunkers, but on the whole it was really impressive.

A month later, they released Season Two here, she loaned that to me, and I really enjoyed that as well.

So, convinced that I really did enjoy the show, I took the plunge of buying Season Three when it was released here last December. My gosh. I watched the whole thing in a week, intensive viewing. I couldn't stop watching.

It's been six months since then, and it'll be another couple of months before Season Four is released. Every time I go to the rental store, I walk past old VHS copies of B5, and I have to force myself to wait for the DVD.

Bear in mind it is low budget. I remember somewhere JMS said that the cost of making the pilot episode of Voyager would have paid for 1.3 seasons of B5. So it is very low budget. But who cares, because it's not just about pretty pictures. It really is a show that is about something. There is an intelligence and a thoughtfulness underpinning the show that is really rare.

There are moments of great tragedy that you wouldn't believe. There are moments of revelation where suddenly every piece suddenly falls into place. There are times when the show is laugh out loud funny. You meet characters that change and grow, some for the better, some for the worse. Some characters you dismiss initially as mere comic relief, and then they turn around and show such delpths that you would have never thought possible. There are moments where the show has things occur which make you think "I have never seen that in a TV show before". There is an intricacy of plotting - even having watched only a little over half the show, I can marvel at the way the whole series arc was progressed consistently through the show. Very little happens without purpose.

It is an incredible show, and in watching it my only regret is that it took me ten years to discover it. It really is a television marvel - one of the most satisfying TV experiences I have had.

As others have indicated, there are sadly problems with the visual quality of the release. But the quality of the entertainment is so great you will barely notice.

Also, avoid the extras, particularly the commentaries. I haven't heard them, but everything I have heard says they are very spoiler-heavy, talking about how events in this episode affect the future direction of the show. There is also a featurette on season two called "Shadows and Dreams: Honors of Babylon" about the awards won by B5, that discusses a major turning point episode in season three. Definitely do not watch this extra - I made the mistake of watching it, and really regret it.

Definitely worth your money and time. Glad to hear you got such a great deal. Hope you like it as much as I do.

By the way - Dan I'm trying to think what spoilers you could mean. I mean, if you are talking about the consequences of the final episode of season one, I believe they imitially use images from season one to avoid spoiling that. In any case, JMS wrote the opening titles, and he knew people were going to watch them, so anything revealed in the titles would not be considered a spoiler, because JMS approved that that revelation be made at that time, even if it is made a few episodes in advance of the relevant show.

On the DVD's the opening credits for the first two episodes of season 2 are spoilers.

I don't know how JMS handled this during the regular run on TV but the opening credits for the first two episodes of Season 2 are spoilers for what happened in Chrysallis (season 1 ender) on the DVD.


Andy

.

Only on the NTSC widescreen versions. It was an error in creating the widescreen version of the credits when the show first aired on The Sci-Fi Channel here and it was never corrected. Because widescreen PAL credits already existed from countries where the series was broadcast in widescreen during its initial run, and those were correct, the studio used those credits for the DVDs. This is one of several quirky differences between the two releases.

Regards,

Joe

3/4 weeks ago I was lent The Gathering, Season 1 and 2 from my brother. After being curious about the series for a long time and catching the (very) occasional episode when it aired, I was looking forward to it. I have to say it has almost completely overtaken all spare time that I have. I'm on disc 5 of season 2, with such great shows as West Wing and Simpsons sets going unwatched. I found Season 1 quite enjoyable, but since disc 3 of season 2, it's really hotting up. It's quite strange though that the alien characters are often more fascinating and well rounded than the humans, though I feel certain that this will change.

My only problem is how can I afford the other series right now!

When it originally aired, the first two episodes had modified opening credits so as not to give anything away.

Speaking of skipping the opening credits (and you gotta love how WB got the chapter stops right ), for those that have season 5 and are used to skipping the opening credits, make sure to watch the opening credits on The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father. It's nothing major, but it's rather cute. I would have forgotten all about it had my wife not remembered.