Death Metal/Black Metal. I don't get it?

The only death metal bands I like are Morbid Angel and Entombed. I would recommend picking up Wolverine Blues by Entombed. It is a really cool CD. Go listen to samples on Amazon.

Brion

Mmmmm, Cooookies!!!

IMO the only good Black/Death metal bands were those formed in the 1980s, and limited to handful: Mercyful Fate (first few albums, demo CD), Venom (Welcome to Hell, Black Metal), Slayer (Reign in Blood, South of Heaven)... Motorhead is NOT death metal.

What passes for metal today is pretty lame, boring and repetitive.

Amazon recommendations are useless.

I personally am not a fan of death metal or black metal, but there are a few bands I like. Most of it is just noise, to see how loud they can go. But some of it, especially European black metal, features phenomenal musicianship. Combined with the intensity of genre, and it can be pretty cool.

The cookie monster vocals are too much for some, and I don't blame you. Once you hear some bands, you learn there are different kinds of cookie monster vocals, and sometimes it goes well with the music. But mostly I ignore them.

Some bands I like:

Slayer- I wouldn't even consider them "death metal," but you mentioned them. I can't explain it, but they have a lot of character. Some of the riffs are cool, and some of it is stupid, but somehow it always entertains me.

Death- their later albums are amazing. You can't complain about drumming after you hear this stuff. The vocals are particularly screechy and muppetish, but it goes with everything. Some nice riffs and angular song structures. Their last one, Sound of Perseverence, is just awesome.

Opeth- my favorite one. Their trademark is injecting the heaviness with acoustic guitars and normal singing, often using similar themes and moderate tempos throughout to give everything a unified, logical feel, despite the drastic change in dynamics. My Arms Your Hearse, Still Life, and Blackwater Park are masterpieces.

Meshuggah- this is my new metal thing. The songs are relatively short because the pack a lot into them. Some real crazy riffing here. Insane stuff.

I don't know if there's a lot to "get".

I like death metal for the sheer heaviness of it, the tuned down guitars, the "out of sync" drumming and the growling voice makes for an interesting listening experience. There are often melodies in there too, Morbid Angel for example is very melodic (in a death metal kind of way, of course ).

The modern black metal is more melodic and has a more gothic feel to it than death metal (IMO), even though it often has a structure similar to death metal songs. What I like about it is the more operatic feel of it, and that it yet often plays more straight than death metal does. "Tormentor of christian souls" by Dimmu Borgir sums up the genre pretty good in about 5 minutes or so, for those interested.

I don't think you're too old by the way, I'm 33...

/Mike

I heard Morbid Angel live when they were touring with Static X, Slayer, and Pantera (man did I need some Excedrin that night!). I didn't know who they were, but I couldn't decipher and melodies or music from what they were doing. Everybody praises them- I need to hear them again in the comfort (and appropriate volume setting) of home.

I recently discover Dimmu Borgir after flipping around the TV and coming across the video for Progenies of the Great Apocolypse. It was just so ridiculous and cool, I got the album. It's hit and miss for me, but a lot of fun. They are wacky.

Am I the only one who's laughing out loud at the extremely serious discussion using the term "cookie monster vocals"?

Well, it's a term used elsewhere a lot and I've always called it that anyway, especially when I'm blasting it and people look at me funny. It's a way for me to declare that yes, I know it's kind of silly, but I don't care.

Hey, this is rock music. If I can listen to Keith Emerson bang away on Moogs, The Who seriously sing about a pinball messiah, and watch a Zeppelin video where the singer runs around with a sword like he's King Author of freakin' Camelot or somthing, I can listen to angry potheads growl away tunelessly.

I loved a lot of death metal during the late 80's. It helped that I worked at the Combat/Relativity label at the time, and I got to go out on the road with DEATH and DARK ANGEL (among others). I still love a lot of those bands, but I remember how it all got a bit stale after a while. The bands seemed interchangeable, and the barking/growling vocals got on my nerves.

Here we are, almost 15 years later, and I find myself enjoying death metal again. It started two years ago when Swede deathsters ARCH ENEMY recruited vocalist Angela Gossow (I'm a sucker for women in heavy music). I bought "Wages of Sin" to hear if this hot-looking chick could growl with the best of them (she CAN).

But, more importantly, with my "discovery" of latter-day ARCH ENEMY, I found out that death Metal has come a long, loooong way in 15 years. There is more melody throughout one ARCH ENEMY song than there is in CANNIBAL CORPSE's entire catalog.

Bands like OPETH and IN FLAMES have proved that you don't have to your lead singer gargle with Drano (my friends thought the new IN FLAMES was KORN!). And God bless CHILDREN OF BODOM!

I just turned 40 today, by the way. I predicted in my college days that I'd still be listening to aggressive music if I lived this long. Looks like I was right

I personally like only a few death metal bands...... Heck I don't know if you would even call them death metal any more, there are so many labels now......

I love
Death, all of there albums
Obituary, all of them
Morbid Angel, only album I really like is Covenant
Carcass

My favorite is Fear Factory (see other post). I can't get enough of this band......

R~

The best DVD'S of metal i have seen are the Pantera (containing the 3 home videos + Monters in Russia), Superjoint Ritual: Live in Texas, Iron Maiden: Rock in Rio, Sepultura in Barcelona and the recent Metallica dvd box (Live from Mexico with cds and stuff).

Help me here: is there a good ''Fear Factory'' dvd out there? and there is something from ''Meshugah'' in dvd?. Also i always wonder why theres is nothing Live recent-before-breaking-stuff from ''Faith no more'' and Melvins, Fantomas, Tomahawk or any stuff with Mike Patton...

Have a nice day....

Hey guys, check out Morbid Angel's Domination. I like it more than their Covenant album. Although both albums are really pretty cool!

Brion

No.

Though personally not a fan of death metal, I do enjoy reading the song titles to "cannibal corpse" albums. Thems some funny shiat Check some song titles out on amazon. Their moms must be ever so pround.

cheers!

Josh

Fear Factory has a DVD out called "Digital Connectivity" and I don't think Meshuggah has a DVD.

I wasn't too impressed with the Digital Connectivity DVD personally.

Regarding death metal, I'm a metal fan of 16 years (I'm 29), and I have to say I find death metal extremely uninteresting. However, bands that crossover into death metal, but aren't exclusively death metal I tend to like, i.e., Opeth.

Regarding Death and Dark Angel, I'd probably consider them thrash, not death metal. I wouldn't consider Slayer death metal either. The first death metal band I was aware of was Napalm Death back in '92, and I didn't care for what they did back then. I am a huge fan of heavy music, but the current wave of "extreme" music just doesn't seem interesting at all. You can only go so low and so fast and then it becomes an exercise in futility. Black metal is frustrating for me, because I do like some of what's happening there musically (I like dark theatrical stuff), but the vocals are just a joke. It's not my intention to put death or black metal down, but most of the bands I hear these days from those genres sound like they're just painting by numbers. Give me Fear Factory any day...

Couldn't have said it better!!!!!!!!


R~

In Flames, Amon Amarth, Children of Bodam, Trail of Tears, Callenish Circle, and Siebengurgen to name a few good bands.

I admit, most are Swedish Noreigan goth metal bands, but they still rock!

Judas Priest still rules my roost, though.

I recommend Amon Amarth's Versus the World release (Disc One is better than Two IMO).

Jason

Chuck Schuldiner of DEATH is widely considered the "father" of death metal (and he was like, 16 at the time he started the band). I only mentioned DARK ANGEL because they were part of a package tour at the time (1987), but, yes, they were definitely more thrash than death metal. Great bunch of guys, though, I went to the singer's wedding, and I would crash at Gene Hoglan's house when I would visit L.A.

Don,

I know Death are considered pioneers of death metal, I guess that's why I find it ironic that most death metal I hear doesn't sound like Death to my ears. When I think of Death I tend to think of their later records like Human, Individual Thought Patterns and Symbolic, which to me were almost progressive thrash/death. Although who can forget "Pull the Plug"!

Funny you should mention that song. I have a "raw" videotape of the "Ultimate Revenge 2" (complete performances from DARK ANGEL, DEATH, FAITH OR FEAR, FORBIDDEN, and RAVEN, not the two to three trax released on the official VHS) from the Trocadero in Philly from 1988 (I was in the sound truck for most of DEATH's performance).

I was transferring the VHS over to DVD the other day, and the track that stood out in my mind was "Pull the Plug." That and "Zombie Ritual."

Chuck Schuldiner was a talented guy. He had a lot of fights with the record label while I was there, but we always got along great. He was quiet and reserved for the most part, and was DESPERATELY terrified of homeless people (which made his visits to NYC all that much more amusing for ME).

Yep, DEATH's later releases saw Chuck getting more technical and progressive because he was getting better as a guitar player, and wasn't afraid to incorporate his REAL influences into his music. I remember him being all jealous that I had just seen CANDLEMASS play in NY the night before I had to fly to Detroit to meet up with DEATH on the road, and I remember WASP's "Headless Children" album getting a LOT of play on that tour bus...



Check out IN FLAMES, CHILDREN OF BODOM, or DARK TRANQUILITY, and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I think CHILDREN OF BODOM are probably the most "fun" band this genre has ever produced...you can find TONS of free legal MP3s at their label's website...

Speaking of black/death metal, I just read on Blabbermouth that Thomas "Quorthon" Forsberg of BATHORY passed away June 7.

I had no idea that Jonas Akerlund (director of vids for METALLICA and CARDIGANS, as well as the film "Spun") was a member of BATHORY. Of course, it does explain why the kid from "Almost Famous" is watching a BATHORY clip while he's zonked on meth in "Spun."

Hey Don,

Thanks for all the info. I've checked out some recent In Flames clips and I'm definitely hearing some of the Korn influences that seem to have polarized their fan base. What do you think is a good start record for them?

I'm new to IN FLAMES myself...the only CD I own is the newest "Soundtrack to Your Escape." I've heard "Whoracle" is their masterpiece.

Death rules.

Chuck was one of the finest guitarists ever to walk the earth.

grew up with the stuff in the 80's and still love it.
some of you need to hang out on Ultimate Metal Forum

Basically it is a site with official band forums ... the cool thing about it is that on most of them, the band members themselves chime in discussions.

Death/Black Metal is a very misunderstood genre.

"There is more melody throughout one ARCH ENEMY song than there is in CANNIBAL CORPSE's entire catalog."

Ack, I say! I nearly choked when I read that, I'm sorry but you either have never listened to CC or are just against them for other reasons. Cannibal Corpse has some of the most tight, and varied, death metal music out there. The guys in the band are true musicians, not like most of these nu metal posers that only know one cord.

Now, having got that off my chest, Arch Enemy does indeed rock, and are one of my fav newer metal bands, and that chick does rock! I just had to defend CC, as they are often persecuted for their twisted sense of humor (as someone else mentioned, a quick look at their song titles reveals this!).

Anyhoo, I've been a metal head since like 7th grade, bobbing my head along with the likes of Venom, Deicide, and others. I was basically alone in my love for it, being the uber computer nerd with glasses. The stoner contingent at my school (like 2 guys, I went to a small school) always made fun of me when I'd ask them if they'd heard the latest Slayer track. However, my love for all things fast and hard never died.

I agree with all of the arguments against the "Grover-on-crank" or "Cookie Monster" vocals, it took me quite a while to learn to like it, but after I did it was like a barrier broke and suddenly it made sense, or rather the music did, for that's really what metal is about to me, the music. Some bands, particularly nowadays, have zero music talent and instead just hammer the drums as fast as they can while the guitarists, etc. alternate between 2 chords, all the while the "singer" is flaying his vocal cords. There are some really good ones though, as mentioned above, like Dimmu, Arch Enemy, CC, Deicide.

As for being too old, I'm just about 30 and I'll never stop listening to metal, that's for sure.

Nate