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ALIAS season 4 ongoing thread (merged) - Page 5

post #121 of 788
1/6/05 at 7:58am
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Alright I can appreciate the fact that they want to start over again but having Sloane be their boss is just too much to take.

Enough already. I hate it when a character is kept on a show (like Spike on Buffy) just to keep them on. Sloane should have been gone a long time ago.

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I was amused how the premiere felt like a reset to the first year. It's all back to the way it started, only they're a real CIA unit.

I wasn't amused. I know they wanted to get back to basics but why did they have to go back to almost the same plot as season 1?

My question is, why couldnt they let Weiss come with them?
Loved Angela Basset and the show was entertaining but I think this show has lost a bit of it's luster. I am hoping J.J will proove me wrong in the coming weeks..
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post #122 of 788
1/6/05 at 8:07am
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My question is, why couldnt they let Weiss come with them?
Because JJ and Greg are going to be shooting The Catch Real Soon Now, Honestly They Are.
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post #123 of 788
1/6/05 at 8:14am
Regarding Weiss coming with them: this situation allows Sydney to have a close friend to whom she lies about her job, just like she used to do with Will and Francie. Hopefully that will allow us to see a little more of Sydney away from work. (I don't know how Marshall will hide his new job from his wife, though...)
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post #124 of 788
1/6/05 at 8:59am
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Because JJ and Greg are going to be shooting The Catch Real Soon Now, Honestly They Are.
Why'd you capitalize "real soon now, honestly they are"? The Catch starts airing this fall.
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post #125 of 788
1/6/05 at 9:08am
That was for sarcasm purposes. The show was originally expected, what, Spring 2003, and it has yet to even shoot a pilot.
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post #126 of 788
1/6/05 at 9:20am
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That was for sarcasm purposes. The show was origianlly expected, what, Spring 2003, and it has yet to even shoot a pilot.

I do remember hearing about this for quite some time. Should be intersting. As much as I like Weiss, you think people will buy Weiss as a leading man?

Forgot to add before, the dude at the beginning (sorta) that Sydney helped escape was another Felicity recruit adding to Weiss and Marshalls wife. Keri Russel you out there?
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post #127 of 788
1/6/05 at 10:33am
I don't know how Marshall will hide his new job from his wife, though...


That was what I was wondering considering that she works for the CIA also. Fired over his PS2? Plus he didn't have his ring on when Marshall hugged Syd. Didn't he get married?

The Syd intro montage was nice eye candy but also kinda weak. I agree that the remix isn't as intense as it should and was and it was too focused on Syd. Hopefully it was a one time thing for the premiere.

Good overall restart although I didn't like it that Sloane was the boss and his "promotion" was given due to giving up a Rimbaldi artifact. That was a bit soft and going back too far to season 1.

Heck, what the heck am I saying? I'm just happy Alias is back.
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post #128 of 788
1/6/05 at 11:11am
I loved last night's episodes. Especially the first one. It seems like they are going back to Season One-style missions. It'll be great to see Dixon do something other than sit at his desk

But I did have one question: Wasn't Sloane thought to be dead at the end of Season Three by the government? You know, since they executed him near the end of last year. I guess they found out that he was alive too when he gave them the Rambaldi device.

No matter how much people want to say that the show sucks now, it's infinitely better than nearly everything on broadcast TV.
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post #129 of 788
1/6/05 at 11:15am
Yeah, I bet heads rolled when they found out who faked Sloan's death... Oh, wait.

One begins to wonder how any of these people are still working for the CIA.
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post #130 of 788
1/6/05 at 1:57pm
Ah, the season opener was great fun! I was perplexed by the new version of the Wittenberg documents -- I'm glad to know that I'm not crazy thinking they originally revealed Sidney was part of Project Christmas. I think that was much more interesting than the new plot of Jack killing Irena. And I don't care much for Nadia, so I'm ambivalen about her being back.

However, I think the virtual re-creation of SD-6 is brilliant! It reassembles all the characters almost, but not quite, aligned with their original positions. But the loyalties are very different. I think it provides for lots of delicious tensions and moral conflicts. I'm expecting some operations to be of questionable good, making Sidney wonder if this really is a legitimate agency.

I also liked the twist with Jack killing Irena, but I wish the reveal had been delayed a few episodes.

Some of the internal logic is fractured. My fear is that it will follow The X-Files in being hopelessly convoluted, inventing Mythology merely to propel episodes, and finally collapsing on itself with no satisfying resolution. But so far it's not too far gone.

Ok, good new season. Lots of fun. Looking forward to next week.
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post #131 of 788
1/6/05 at 2:26pm
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I'm glad to know that I'm not crazy thinking they originally revealed Sidney was part of Project Christmas


Just a point of clarification: Sydney was fully aware of her being in Project Christmas and of her father putting her in it. This had been revealed some time ago. What last season's finale did was suggest there was something more to it than just a spy training project. Last night's ep still glossed over that issue or the last scene in the finale was just a hamhanded red herring. Or the writers changed their minds and needed to explain away the fact Syd was getting upset over a document that showed her to be a CIA "project" managed by her father.

EDIT: But if my memory serves, she did begin getting upset over subsequent pages, so I suppose the writers had a way out there...it's our own fault for jumping to conclusions, right?
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post #132 of 788
1/6/05 at 2:54pm
The Spike on Buffy analogy is the perfect way to describe how I feel about Sloane being the leader. I mean Nadia, who was tortured by him, Dixon, who's wife was killed by Sloane, Jack and Sid who've had dozens of things happen to them because of Sloane all have no problem working for him? Too much suspension of disbelief. Some other things I'm wondering about,
Why did Irina put a contract out on Sid?
What's up with The Covenant? Is this group going to be the big bad for the season? Who's the leader??
Are they doing anymore Rimbaldi stuff this season? What about that entire prophecy that said The Chosen One(Sid) and The Passenger(Nadia) will destroy each other?
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post #133 of 788
1/6/05 at 3:40pm
When was Sydney informed of Project Christmas as far as Jack running the project and that she was also a product of the project? I remember Will uncovering Project Christmas, but nothing about Jack's involvement in it, nor Sydney getting the total 411 on it.
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post #134 of 788
1/6/05 at 3:51pm
If I'm not mistaken Sydney watched the video and saw herself as a young girl sitting at a desk assembling a gun or something. She also had a conversation about it with her dad.

Don't ask me for time, date, and episode, cuz I can't remember, but I do remember the events.
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post #135 of 788
1/6/05 at 4:12pm
Okay, I was somewhat mistaken. She was not a full blown member of Project Christmas but Jack used her as a test subject, which I guess would qualify her as being a project unto herself (as indicated by the one black document we saw in last season's finale):

Season 2, Episode 5 (from the episode guides on ABC's site):

In Buenos Aires, Kolakov attacks Syd with a stun gun but is electrocuted when she throws him into water. She finds a spatial relations puzzle and completes it in seconds. When Sydney undergoes hypnosis back home, she sees herself giving a gun to her father! Syd confronts Jack with her memories — Irina's mission was to uncover "Project Christmas," a plan Jack developed to train kids to become American spies. Syd claims that Jack has been afraid she would figure it all out. "You programmed me to be a spy," she says, "I will never forgive you for this."

Jack explains to Sydney that he never intended her to be a spy, that he only tested Project Christmas on her so she could be strong in a dangerous environment — but Sloane got to her before he did.
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post #136 of 788
1/6/05 at 4:25pm
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Why did Irina put a contract out on Sid?
If I had to guess, I'd say she's a Rimbaldi true-believer, found something that further convinced her that Sydney will somehow bring about Very Bad Things, and decided Syd Must Be Destroyed. But, she had to subcontract out, because she's hit her limit on how often she can do bodily harm to her daughter herself.

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I mean Nadia, who was tortured by him, Dixon, who's wife was killed by Sloane, Jack and Sid who've had dozens of things happen to them because of Sloane all have no problem working for him?
I think they all have problems working for him; that was made pretty clear. It's just that they apparently won't quite for real, or, in high-functioning sociopath Jack Bristow's case, put a bullet in Sloane's head at the first possible opportunity.
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post #137 of 788
1/6/05 at 7:50pm
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Keri Russel you out there?

She's been busying making her off-Broadway debut (in a new play by Neil LaBute). But she leaves the production in about a week, which would make her available for spy duty.

M.
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post #138 of 788
1/6/05 at 8:29pm
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"I will never forgive you for this."


HOW many times is this going to happen? Syd's all, "I HATE YOU SPYDADDY!" and then five minutes later she finds out about the big twist (aka, "SpyMommy wanted you dead!") and then she's all melty and teary and oh Vaughn, please love me before the Sarah McLachlan song ends!
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post #139 of 788
1/6/05 at 8:35pm
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HOW many times is this going to happen? Syd's all, "I HATE YOU SPYDADDY!" and then five minutes later she finds out about the big twist (aka, "SpyMommy wanted you dead!") and then she's all melty and teary and oh Vaughn, please love me before the Sarah McLachlan song ends!


So you're saying you want to start an Alias drinking game?
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post #140 of 788
1/6/05 at 9:30pm
I'd have to watch that season 2 episode again because what Sydney found out in the season 3 finale tore her world apart, and if she knew about Jack's involvement in season 2, that doesn't make the discovery as big as it was made out to be in last season's finale.

If that recap is accurate, it means Irina went to all the trouble of bearing Sydney, and possibly dangling her existence as a way to Jack to reveal his involvement with Project Christmas. That seems really far-fetched time-line-wise. But, with sleeper agents, I guess it's possible, but plausible, I don't know.
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post #141 of 788
1/6/05 at 9:39pm
The information Sydney saw in the finale, and what she talked about in the Premiere are different. Maybe they changed their minds on what to do, or they wanted a way to write Lena Olin off the show.
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post #142 of 788
1/6/05 at 9:55pm
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The information Sydney saw in the finale, and what she talked about in the Premiere are different. Maybe they changed their minds on what to do, or they wanted a way to write Lena Olin off the show.


Well, like I said, they either changed their minds and used a cheap way out (we only saw the first document relating to the "Sydney Bristow Project" so the subsequent documents could have been about something else - e.g. Irina's execution order) or the writers had this in mind the whole time, in which case it's a lamely executed red herring. I suspect the latter.
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post #143 of 788
1/6/05 at 10:50pm
I call it scrambling on the writers' part when it was clear that Lena Olin wasn't going to return to the show, so they had to go with another angle to write Irina out of the show, and the result was clumsily executed IMHO. Hopefully in a few weeks, it'll all blow over, but for now, it still reeks a little bit.
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post #144 of 788
1/7/05 at 6:15am
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Enough already. I hate it when a character is kept on a show (like Spike on Buffy) just to keep them on. Sloane should have been gone a long time ago.


I disagree. The core of this show for me was the Spyfam story and Sydney's hatred for Sloane. Its been the key to the show since the pilot. (unlike S/V.) If Victor Garber or Ron Rifkin ever left, I'd probably leave with them.

The difference with Spike is that he came to the show later and wasn't meant to stay on as long as he did. Getting rid of Sloane is like getting rid of Xander or Willow.
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post #145 of 788
1/7/05 at 6:31am
I agree that it appears the writers changed their minds since the season 3 finale. It might seem strange, but I have to admit that the death of her mom was anti climatic compared to what was alluded in the finale. I really want more talk about Rambaldi with a possible wrap up. That was always my favorite thread in the show.
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post #146 of 788
1/7/05 at 6:31am
The writing out of Lena Olin was done just fine. The initial set up of the new APO group and justification for Sloane's leadership...now that was awkward. If your exposition can't fly even when put in the mouth of an actress as skilled as Angela Bassett, then you know you are in trouble. Once I got past that awful set-up, though, I enjoyed the episode a lot.

Regards,
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post #147 of 788
1/7/05 at 6:43am
I am willing to blindly buy into the reset because, well as Vaughn put it so eloquently, "Last Year Sucked".
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post #148 of 788
1/7/05 at 6:45am
I thought the 2nd hour was better than the first. The pacing was a bit odd, some scenes went on far too long than they should have. Its like they were stretching it out instead of combining 2 episodes(Second Double/The Telling is what they should try to make the next 2 hour eps like.), but once Marshall was back with the team everything was great.
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post #149 of 788
1/7/05 at 7:11am
I think it's interesting to note that at no time has Sloan doublecrossed the CIA since his capture. Sure, he stole the one Rimbaldi artifact, and used it on his daughter, but, in his mind, it was for the better good, not for personal gain or power. He may not always tell the truth, but he seems to always be working for good.

I'm glad for the "ctrl-alt-del" of the series. Let's get back to the roots!
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post #150 of 788
1/7/05 at 7:55am
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I disagree. The core of this show for me was the Spyfam story and Sydney's hatred for Sloane. Its been the key to the show since the pilot. (unlike S/V.)
S/V?
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