KILL BILL: The multiple versions thread (6 from Miramax; Japanese, SEs, etc.) - Page 4

As for the pricing of $16.99, I bought Vol. 1 at Target for $15.99...

QT was on Leno a few nights ago and said something like:

"I work a little different than most directors. The cuts you see in theatres ARE the director's cuts."

I hear that if there is a combo of vol. 1 and vol. 2 that some parts will be edited out, and I am against that. I want the whole shabang, a minute gone would make me mad.

Ryan

>>posted by Elijah Sullivan: Tarantino's original cut of Kill Bill was a single, 2.5-hour film. The Miramax chiefs talked QT into splitting his flick in half -- but that left two very short (75-min) films, so each of them was watered down with deleted scenes to reach a more desireable running length.
(Apparently, tho, the second film ate up most of the 150-minute running time of Bill: Uncut, so the first film was actually beefed up from a running time closer to a single hour.)


Elijah, where did this claim about a 2.5 hr director's cut come from? I've never read anything by Tarantino to confirm such a story. I'd be interested to know where you heard this.

The truth, as I understand it, is that QT wrote a script that was well in excess of 200 pages. Now, given the rule of thumb that one page equals one minute of screen time it became immediately apparent to all involved that there was no way this script could be one movie. Accordingly, jokes about making KB two movies were common on the set. Until Harvey Weinstein suggested, whilst Tarantino was still shooting, that QT cut the movie into two. After some thought he figured out how to construct a cliffhanger ending for Vol 1 and away they went.

>>posted by Elijah: Problem is, these deleted scenes were cut for a reason, so clearly QT's director's cut (if there is any such thing) is actually the shorter 2.5-hour version that is being held for last. It was even played at Cannes this year as a single 2.5-hour flick under the lable Kill Bill: Uncut -- even though it was actually a shorter film than the two movies would make if simply re-spliced.

Your claim about the Cannes version is wrong. The cut that played there was some 4hrs in length and as far as QT is concerned that is the version that would have been seen had all concerned not decided to split the movie into two.

This rumour about deleted scenes floating around also seems to be false. Apart from the Michael Jai White scene - which QT was allowed to film despite knowing that it would not appear in the final cut - there's practically nothing left. There was an interview with QT where he specifically says that he used almost everything apart from just tiny bits and pieces. What you see in the two films is literally everything that was shot. That's why the movie is 4+hours long!

As for Miramx's planned release strategy - well, maybe they've changed it in the light of some of the criticism they've been receiving. Or they are waiting to assess sales of the Vol 2 DVD. I'd have thought a double pack of both films would be on the cards for Christmas, though. The 4 hour version won't go out to theatres until next year anyway and it'll be some time after that when the DVD version of it arrives. I wouldn't be surprised if we had to wait until Autumn/Christmas 2005 for that one.

I don't believe Jackson when he says the theatrical cuts are his final cuts. They are his "compromised" cuts. He had to deliver 3 hour films for 1 & 2 and was allowed to go a bit longer for 3. Yes, he was not interfeared with on those cuts, but what else could he do? He had to meet those running time requirements and he did.

So far, the extended cuts of the first two were dramatic improvements on already great films. I have not viewed the theatrical cuts since and never will again.

Quick head's up:

Just watched the Kill Bill 2 screener last night. Summary: PQ is much better than the last disc...still a bit "filtered" like all Miramax DVDs these days with a touch of mild EE, but not nearly as bad as the Kill Bill 1 disc (which was so bad, I kept thinking something was wrong with my system). I'd say I'm more or less "happy" with the PQ of this disc...not excited...having seen it projected 35 mm I'm all too aware of just what the DVD is missing (low-level detail and added artifact of mild EE for big-screen viewers), but at least what we have now is in the realm of "normal" DVD quality and not something clearly sub-standard.

DTS audio is amazing of course.

Extras are slim but you knew that.

Hope to get my review posted today...and when I do please carry on some discussion in that thread to help bump it along!

-dave

So are we still getting that super-duper edition Tarantino alluded to earlier, with tons of extras and crap?

That's pretty much the way I feel as well. I was very conscious watching KB 2 in the theater of parts that would likely be cut due to reduncancy issues if it were one long movie. I'd probably end up missing the little bits from the V1 and V2 incarnation.

The other thing about the combined 4 hr cut:

It would have to be split onto two DVD's. Kind of defeats the purpose.

Not to say I wouldn't rent the combined cut if it ever comes out. Watch it come out in some super-duper 4 disc set.

Well, you could always watch both films back to back. What would be the point of releasing a new cut if it were exactly the same as the existing version(s)?

Regards,

I can't speak for others, but I am a huge KB fan and I wanted to see both fils re-edited together so that some scenes occur at different times than they would if you watched both films back to back. Volume 1 contains a lot more action than Volume 2, and Volume 2 contains a lot more story than Volume 1, so switching around the order of the movies into one movie would, in my opinion, make it perhaps the finest movie ever.

>>posted by Grant H: That's pretty much the way I feel as well. I was very conscious watching KB 2 in the theater of parts that would likely be cut due to reduncancy issues if it were one long movie. I'd probably end up missing the little bits from the V1 and V2 incarnation.

The only cuts are the obvious ones; the montage clip straight after The House of Blue Leaves sequence and (surprisingly) the cliffhanger revelation that Bea's daughter is alive. From Vol 2 the opening recap/flashback has gone (but then you would have expected that, right?)

All this is according to the Empire review which also implies that the intermission follows straight after the extended scene between the Bride and Sofie in which the Bride cuts off Sofie's other arm.

>>posted by Grant H: The other thing about the combined 4 hr cut:It would have to be split onto two DVD's. Kind of defeats the purpose.

Why? Plenty of long movies are split across two discs. It's not a problem as far as I can see. So long as the break is sympathetically placed (and I'm sure that with KB it'll be exactly where the intermission was supposed to be).

Ken,

Did you miss the recent memo on the subject of "taking multiple bites at the apple"?

EDIT: I can see the ads now: "New combined cut containing ZERO minutes of additional footage!"

EDIT: I can see the ads now: "New combined cut containing ZERO minutes of additional footage!"

Ah, but don't forget you've got a minute or so of additional gore and, of course, The big House of Blue Leaves fight - in COLOUR.

Always wondered about that...

So, that's the extended CUT of the scene.

Omitting the cliffhanger about the kid could be could too. Then, it would be a surprise when she runs into her in what was V 2. If you hadn't seen the theatrical version of course.

I would hope all the omissions would be included in the set as "deleted scenes."

That's my 'argument'; It's OK for a zillion releases of this title, cause the fan's don't want too miss a frame.
Not of coarse, too mislead or blackmail!

KB2 review: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=207102

What would be great is if the 4 hour version of the film set to premiere next year was spread out over two discs and then two more discs were included for extra content. It's the LOTR strategy and it's been proven to work. I think that's the best option.

I absolutely love love LOVE the few minutes of story and exposition after The House of Blue Leaves. In particular, the use of Meiko Kaji's "The Flower Of Carnage", which really hits you hard. It's the perfect use of music and my favorite moment in the entire film. I will be crushed to see all of that gone.

Flower of Carnage probably won't be cut out in a combined version. It starts up right at the end of the fight with O-Ren.

Actually, a Japanese song (the name escapes me) starts up, then after Sophie is delivered to the hospital, minus some body parts, and Bill is told what has happened, Flower of Carnage starts.

No, Flower of Carnage starts up right as O-Ren goes down. The later one is The Lonely Shepherd, which continues into the final credits. It's also in an earlier scene, when Hanzo finishes the sword and presents it to The Bride.

OK, I have my songs mixed up. It's the second one I don't want to see go.

they should combine the 2 kill bill films into one movie, and remove much of the filler from volume 2 that really wasnt needed, at the direction of quentin of course. The directors vision might be different for how this would be presented as one movie, then as it would be presented as 2 movies. Besides volume 1 was far superior, they could do some editing on volume 2, combine then and give us a far better movie overall. I hated the way Bill was presented on volume 2, that whole incredibly scary image was gone in an instant and all that was left was a sad old man playing a flute, & trying to sound clever with his superman theories. The fight scene in the japanese restaurant concluding with the o ren ishi fight, just rocks. Volume 2 has nothing to match it in terms of style.

I still don't understand why everyone is so adamant about combining the movies and then having it split up over two discs. Essentially both versions will be identical except one has credits at the end of the first disc while the other says "intermission". I don't see how this change will benefit my viewing experience of the Kill Bill saga.

That's part of the brilliance of the Bill character. In Volume 2, Quentin reveals Bill to be far more complex than just some samurai-sword-stroking James Bond villain. He's a really complex character. David Carradine brilliantly weaves his portayal of Bill between loving father/husband and murdering bastard. If you wanted Bill to be a simple one-dimensional character you were bound to be disappointed. Tarantino is too great a filmmaker for that.

I agree completely, and if David Carradine isn't at least nominated for an Academy Award for his portrayal of Bill, it will be a travesty.

I'm with this guy. From how I'm understanding it, "The Whole Bloody Affair" is the EXACT same 2 movies except with 2 deleted scenes from Kill Bill 2 re-inserted. That's it.

People want the combined version--then split across 2 discs.

Wouldn't that be EXACTLY the same thing as Vol 1 and Vol 2 being separate discs? When part 1 of "The Whole Bloody Affair" ends, you're going to have to get up and put in part II, right? How is that any different from VOL 1 ending, getting up, and having to put in VOL 2?

Why not ask for a SE of VOL 2 that re-inserts those deleted scenes, instead of a set that splits the 4 hour movie across 2 discs--because as it stands now, the barebones releases ALREADY split 1 4 hour movie across 2 discs.

Robert A,

Read the Empire review - the only available review of the complete KB - it explains the differences between the two versions.

http://www.empireonline.co.uk/site/f...cial/killbill/

The deleted scene - and there is only one, apparently - won't be put back in the film. QT cut it for a reason. When you catch it on the Vol 2 DVD I think you'll understand why.

You guys are missing the big picture. I don't think anyone wants a combined set that is the exact same thing as watching volume 1 without credits and then getting up to put in disk two that is part two missing some scenes or with some scenes added.

What would be great is if Tarantino changed the order of scenes around, so that some scenes from volume 2 are mixed in with scenes from volume 1 and it was a 4-4.5 hour set presented in a new order, so that the combination of action and story achieves a nice flow.

Any "re-arrangement" of scenes as depicted in the seperate volumes is exactly the order in which Tarantino intended them to be presented. Anyone who is the least bit familiar with his movies knows that he frequently tells his stories out of order. The only compromise made story-wise by splitting the movies into two is Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show) Other than this compromise, and the toned-down violence, the seperate "Kill Bill" volumes are exactly as intended. I imagine the final complete version of the film will feature the more violent international version of Vol. 1 with the aforementioned reveal omitted from the end which would then serve as the point of intermission, and a "Vol. 1"-less title card, and that Vol. 2 would remain identical to it's seperate incarnation, with the recap at the beginning omitted, and alternate end credits covering both volumes.

All I want is a set with both movies, incorporated together or not, with the extra Japan market footage and color Blue Leaves, in R1. If that means just shrinkwrapping the existing Part II DVD with an R1 version of the Japanese DVD of Part I, so be it.