*** Official Discussion Thread: Star Wars Trilogy - September 21, 2004 - Page 258  

So, if it's a true Godfather situation, we'll see the trilogy the way we've never seen it before--complete with never-before-seen visual FX errors.

They should stick that in one of the promos.

Still will amaze me if no one ever noticed how messed up things were when the film is displayed "properly." So, the fans ARE quality control these days? WTF?

I'll punch myself in the head repeatedly if things look bad come September. (It's easier to do than kicking myself in the crotch, and losing one's intelligence can often lead to a happier life, whereas losing one's member function does not.)

I don't think it's just you. That may be inentional. A nod back to PJ for all the nods the LOTR films gave to SW. The dianoga always did scream "I see you." Now, there is no doubt it will register that way.

Of course, some will doubtless say it takes them out of the movie because they think of LOTR, but it does look like a cat eye or a goat eye, like Sauron's eye did. It's kind of like screaming out the wrong lover's name if you take it as a LOTR rip I guess.

Wha? Where did that come from?:b



And no, didn't happen, but I'd welcome the opportunity at this point.

Robert,

I understand where you're coming from and it's entirely possible that the sabers did look this bad in the original films, but in all the VHS and LD copies I've watched over the years I never once noticed anything resembling a solid pink lightsaber. Even if they looked this bad originally, I can't understand how the colors could be overlooked when they were re-mastering these films. I'd think that the people working on these DVDs would notice the difference between a pink lightsaber and a blood red one(like Dooku's in AOTC). How the hell can there be such a glaring oversight when it comes to something this simple? As far as I'm concerned the sabers looked perfectly fine in the Special Editions of Empire and Jedi so they should have just left those alone and fixed them in ANH. That's the only film where they looked REALLY bad in the first place.

Goddamn..You're RIGHT! LOOK AT THAT!



DAMN YOU LUCASH!!

Take the color red.

Add white to it.

What do you get?

A lighter shade of red.

I haven't seen the rips, I have only seen a few of the screen caps, I've been relying on everyone's "testimony" -- but now I'm confused by the bitching about the hue of Vader's sabre -- Didn't Vader's sabre always have that hue?

Actually, I think that the diagona eye looks more like Madam Hootch's eye.

Well, the hue color changes slightly even in the 1997 versions, but the core was never pink...

To me, the screenshots of the 1997 special edition presented here:

http://perso.club-internet.fr/willow...Changes_08.htm
http://perso.club-internet.fr/willow...Changes_09.htm

...are a lot better than the ones from the 2004 whatever version.

Shhhh...

Mikko,

That's exactly what I was saying earlier. The sabers in ESB and ROTJ Special Editions were fine so why did they even feel the need to mess with them? They should have just left well enough alone and only worked on the sabers in ANH. Oh well, I guess there's no point in crying over it now as what's done is done. I'm just really disappointed that my favorite scenes in the Empire and Jedi are going to look like poo.

The Original Version is my own work and is transferred from LD by me.

The Special Edition is not an analog transfer from LD but a true anamorphic digital source from TV. So yes the 2004 edition has a lot more details than the true anamorphic source! That's a lot to say!

OK, I repeat, they did not mess with the lightsabers, they did not touch them. It’s the overall transfer that makes them look like that.

I also have another theory but don’t quote me on this yet! From the screen grabs I have seen the lightsabers in ANH are not new ones! What I mean is that they are not newly drawn lightsabers. They are the same old ones, corrected only by tweaking the color and contrast!

Point me the picture you are talking about and I will test it.

To put it all together . . .

It seems more reasonable that the Darth First versions may be the final ones, considering that Sam's comparisons demonstrate that ESB and ROTJ are too dark all around, and don't just suffer from bad lightsabers.

So while Darth First may have gotten a pristine copy of ANH, he may have gotten slightly goofed copies of ESB and ROTJ. Whatever he claims, we don't know for certain that his copies are actually manufactured retail discs. So if his versions show up in September with proper contrast levels, they will look beautiful, and the lightsabers will look fine.

Isn't it more reasonable to conclude that Darth First's copies were slightly off, than to assume that Lucasfilm is going to botch the job?

But a few things still don't wash, if these are the final versions:

(1) Why no Ian McDiarmid credit on ESB, and no Hayden Christensen credit on ROTJ?

(2) Why is Lucasfilm resolutely doing nothing about the ripped copies?

Ron's "replication line" comment certainly moves us toward the view that what Darth First has is real. But of course, at the press event Ron attended, they probably saw assorted clips and not all six hours of the Star Wars Trilogy. So Ron is making his comment most likely just on what he's seen (and again, Ron can't yet comment very much).

I think there's still room to believe that a few more changes may be in there (such as the end credits). In any case, I'm confident that whatever we get in September will look beautiful.

OK, I know what picture you mean now. What I mean is that the white core is not newly drawn. If you look at the duel pictures from ANH provided by DarthFirst on MF, they have varied and incorrect thickness from shot to shot like the originals. If it was newly drawn, they wouldn’t look so different from shot to shot.

"Well, the hue color changes slightly even in the 1997 versions, but the core was never pink...To me, the screenshots of the 1997 special edition presented here:

http://perso.club-internet.fr/willo..._Changes_08.htm
http://perso.club-internet.fr/willo..._Changes_09.htm"

And look at the vast differences in contrast, brightness, and color there are in those screen shots.

Perhaps right now they are more concerned about an internal problem and they don't want any films in the near future finding there way out of the ranch.

Neil

Fair enough, Neil. But it would take very little time for a Lucasfilm legal representative to send the host ISPs of this stuff a cease-and-desist letter. Lucasfilm really just doesn't seem to care about these rips.

If that’s the case then it would be very difficult to replicate and sell the DVDs! As Ron said, it must have been leaked during the replication process. Or maybe the replication process is even finished and they are stored somewhere.

That’s for sure that they don’t care. I have been testing the water and posting pictures little by little and posting the subtle changes for the moment. I still don’t dare to post the money shots like the new Jabba in ANH or Hayden in ROTJ!

whoops. wrong thread.

While they are clearly too dark, any supposed lack of detail can probably be traced back to the Xvid recompression used to get them on the net.

That said, when you compare Sam's screenshots the 2004 version is night and day better detail from my perspective.

Hey Y'all...

Haven't written in a while but have read every post. To me, the sabers in ANH NEVER looked like the sabers in ESB which NEVER loked like the ones in ROTJ.
Luke's saber in ANH, is virtually white with a slight hint of blue and seems HUGE, (slopplily animated IMHO) compared to ESB where it looks WAY more blue.
Vader's saber especially is much thinner, less red and glowy in ANH IMHO. If I recall, they were using spinning rods painted with a reflective paint, yes? (Documentary memory) And in certain shots in the original ANH, his saber appears to have no animation over it whatsoever. Check, "When I left you, I was but..." and compare Vader's saber to Obi-Wan's...
If it WAS animated it looks completely different than Obi's style-wise...
And when the blast doors are closing, it's DEFINITELY not animated... And check, "You should not have come back..."
Same thing..
So all I was gonna say is that they changed from film to film anyway. There is NO way you can tell me that Vader's saber in ANH looks like it did in ROTJ. Night and Day. And it actually DOES look a bit pinkish red on my old SE VHS...

But what do I know... Go ahead, Flame. It's good to be back...!!

Bloody Hell...

I just popped in my old SE VHS, and ff'd to the duel, (and my display is properly cal...)
and the lasers looked nice and RED the way we remember, but Vader's saber is NOT, REPEAT NOT red. I don't know by what stretch you want to call that RED but that's REALLY pushing it. Whitish, pinkish red, sure, but not RED like the blaster lasers...
I might pop in Jedi now too... But There is NO way you can tell me Vader's saber is red in the original ANH. Post some screen shots if you can, I would be curious to see...

D

Yeah, Vader's saber in the OT seemed more magneta/pinkish than red. This is reflected in the action figures as well. While Darth Maul and Dooku's sabers are red, Vader's is magenta colored.

As for the lasers, they seem more red because they are totally red, instead of the lightsabers which have a white core. In the PT though, the lasers seemed to resemble lightsabers in that they have a white core as well.

Okay, I have a nice pause on screen in the duel in ROTJ. S-VHS editing VCR, top of the line...
Definitley more red than ANH, but still not as red as the laser blasts which is what I think we ALL picture in our heads vader's saber to be. Surprised me as well... Between pinkish and red if you ask me...
But what do I know...

D

and OY! While they're tweaking, I HOPE they tighten the editing on the skiff battle. Man, I don't know how Luke and co. survived. It certainly wasn't super-jedi skill..
I mean, it looks like most of the guards just stood around going, "huh?"
And Boba-Fett going out like THAT??? SO lame...

Anyone know if Han Solo's line during the Greedo scene (which in the original version was "Yes, I'll bet you have" just before Han shoots Greedo, but in the Special Edition it was just "I'll bet you have" the "yes" was taken out for some reason) has been restored to the original line "Yes, I'll bet you have" for the upcoming DVD release?

I said this a while back, but no one was listening .

I believe people are not considering the possibility that the contrast was boosted for the SE home video release. Take a look at the screen shots of Vader falling down the stairs here: http://perso.club-internet.fr/willow...Changes_08.htm

Notice how the blue plating on the window in the right half of the screen is practically glowing. They probably did this as a favor for all the people with crappy TVs back when the SE came out.

There's also another shot floating around here of R2 and 3PO in the desert where in the SE version there is some white clipping on the robots from the sun reflecting off of their metallic costumes, but in the new DVD version, by bringing down the contrast level, the clipping is reduced, and more detail is revealed.