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Greed (1925, Erich von Stroheim)

post #1 of 35
11/21/03 at 5:10am
Thread Starter 
- What is the exact running time of von Stroheim's original cut?

- What are the various running times of all subsequent versions?

- What is the condition of the existing elements?

- What is the quality of previous VHS and Laserdisc transfers and TV broadcasts?

- Who currently owns the home-video rights?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0015881/alternateversions

This answers some questions, of course.

I'd really like to see this film on DVD.


Gordy
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post #2 of 35
11/21/03 at 8:01am
If I recall correctly this is an MGM title, which means it's owned by Warner (which would make sense, considering TCM sponsored the restoration). I'd like to see a dual disc set of the extant cut and a separate disc of the still-frame restoration. If the rights could be obtained to the von Stroheim script (which has been published) to insert the appropriate script excerpts in the place of the missing footage, that would be nifty as well.

Rumors swirl around this title and its original length; I don't know that anyone knows for certain how long it was.
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post #3 of 35
11/21/03 at 8:06am
The first assembled cut was about 8 hours long. The version Erich Von Stroheim prepared for release was around 4 hours long. The released version is about 2 1/3 hours.

The film was restored by Kevin Brownlow and David Gill as part of the "Thames/Turner Silents" series.

This restoration was later used to create the reconstruction that Rich Scmidlin put together using stills and intertitles which runs a little over 4 hours (and resembles the version Stroheim cut down himself).

I've only seen the reconstruction, but the quality is fantastic.

Warner Bros. owns the rights, which means that the TCM Archives label will likely release the DVD. (As a side note, I'm heard rumors about The Big Parade and The Scarlet Letter coming from TCM Archives soon)


WB could easily make Greed one of their 2-disc releases. A DVD-14 or 18 could hold the reconstruction, a DVD-9 could hold the theatrical version along with extras.
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post #4 of 35
11/21/03 at 10:30am
Quote:
I'm heard rumors about The Big Parade and The Scarlet Letter coming from TCM Archives soon


I really hope that is true. It would be great to have "The Big Parade" on dvd!
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post #5 of 35
11/21/03 at 2:58pm
As a side note, I'm heard rumors about The Big Parade and The Scarlet Letter coming from TCM Archives soon


Those two, along with Greed would guarantee three instant purchases from me. The von Stroheim film is ripe for a grand, Special Edition treatment (à la the Kino Metropolis)
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post #6 of 35
11/22/03 at 2:30am
Gordy,

Rick Schmidlin's presentation of the four hour version is a magnificent effort - I saw it at the NFT (Digital projection - it wasn't done on film) and turned a great film into a stone cold masterpiece.

I would pay a lot to have this on a 2-disc set curtesy of those nice people at Warner Bros.
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post #7 of 35
11/22/03 at 9:33am
Thread Starter 
Excellent comments by all!

Silent films on DVD seems to be quite popular, so it would well worth releasing one of the big guns in 2004. There is currently a thread on Gance's Napoleon, a film which is just begging for the lavish digital treatment that DVD provide. I don't particulary think of films as Art, but certain films from the Silent era qualify. But I can't think of a single film in the Modern era that qualifies. Lots of interesting, well-shot films, but it's Entertainment by Commity, in my opinion. Films like Greed are from a time when ways of expressing oneself were plentiful and wide open, and financial gain was an afterthought. Von Stroheim clearly had something to say with Greed and he didn't pull no punches. Few films in the Modern era delve into the abyss of humanity and come up clutching true answers we don't want to hear.

What was the last film aimed at adults that made you question life, yourself or anything? There aren't many.


Gordy
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post #8 of 35
3/7/04 at 2:07pm
Just a little heads up for the people in Europe:

The German public chanel ARD is showing Von Stroheim's Greed this night, at 2.05 German time (in three hours). I don't know the running time of this version, or how the intertitles will be handled, but perhaps it'll be "watchable" (unlike most German transmissions of American movies).
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post #9 of 35
3/7/04 at 2:25pm
too bad I cannot get any German channel

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post #10 of 35
3/7/04 at 4:09pm
For the record, guys (especially Partick McCart),

It is actually Turner Entertainment that owns the movie (although it is now an outlet of Warner Bros.). The original, intended released cut was 8 hours long (this is the version that is the holy grail of all silent films), then Von Stroheim brought it down to 4 hours. It was MGM that cut it further to the extant cut of 2 1/3 hours that exists today.

The Rick Sheindlin/TCM restoration (such as it was), using still photos to "fill in the blanks", was produced according to an original story outline by Von Stroheim to bring it much closer to the director's original vision, so for now, the TCM edit is as close to the original as we're gonna get.

By the way, I have personally seen the TCM edit, and it's not bad at all.
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post #11 of 35
3/8/04 at 8:03am
Last Night I saw the German broadcast on the ARD and the quality was very good. It was the Kevin Brownlow/David Gill restoration with a score by Carl Davis but unfortunately with German intertitels. The Movie had a short introduction to Erich von Stroheim and his bad relationship to Irving Thalberg, who cut his film down to 140 minutes.
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post #12 of 35
3/8/04 at 8:35am
I've taped it, and sampled the first few minutes to check if it's 'watchable'. Too bad about the German intertitles, but I think I'll manage.

The (nice but indeed short) introduction claimed the original cut was 9 hours BTW.
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post #13 of 35
3/8/04 at 10:04am
My question would be would anybody want to watch those 9 hours ?
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post #14 of 35
3/8/04 at 10:48am
Quote:
My question would be would anybody want to watch those 9 hours ?

I want to watch it all. What would happen once I got into it, is another matter.

I want to watch, because the film at its eight or nine hour length is such a mythic part of early cinema, that at least one viewing seems essential.

Still that is a very long time.
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post #15 of 35
3/8/04 at 7:27pm
According to Todd McCarthy, chief film critic of Variety, "Von Stroheim's original Greed ran at a length generally reported as 9 1/2 hours, a version that was shown only once, on January 12, 1924."

Roger Ebert adds, the screening "began at 10 a.m. and continued without breaks for lunch or anything else, Von Stroheim sitting ramrod straight through the whole thing as an example to the others."

-Rod
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post #16 of 35
3/8/04 at 9:22pm
It was exciting to hear at the WB Chat tonight that Greed will be a part of the next public voting for next year's WB releases. I would assume that this will take place in July (unlike last year, the voting will be open to everyone--not just AOL users), and that the winners will be released in January 2005 (with the losers trickling out over the remainder of the year).

Somehow, we'll need to muster a "Silents Majority" (with apologies to the website of the same name) for Greed to win.

Either way, at least Greed is a lock for 2005!
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post #17 of 35
3/9/04 at 12:31am
very good news indeed about Greed

Can't wait

Lew

it is like watching Godfather or SW Trilogy in one go
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post #18 of 35
3/9/04 at 6:32am
Thread Starter 
I'm stoked at the news! Way to go, Warner!

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post #19 of 35
3/9/04 at 12:18pm
If it does make it to DVD, I hope they include the original 2-hour version. The 4-hour version is interesting from an historical and academic perspective, but as a movie it gets pretty dull imo. I can sit through a 4-hour movie, but not a 2-hour movie with 2 hours of still photos.
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post #20 of 35
3/9/04 at 1:18pm
Quote:
it is like watching Godfather or SW Trilogy in one go

And less than watching the LOTR EE when the final chapter is available.
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post #21 of 35
3/9/04 at 1:44pm
I can't wait for this! One of my favorite movies! I can't imagine Warners not including 2 versions of this, seeing as they do it often enough!
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post #22 of 35
7/11/07 at 11:46am

Re: Greed (1925, Erich von Stroheim)

Was curious about this film and figured I'd tack my question onto this old thread rather than start a new one...Have there been any updates from Warner Bros. regarding this film? It's playing on TCM this coming Sunday, but I'm wondering what ever happened with a DVD release.
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post #23 of 35
7/11/07 at 12:58pm

Re: Greed (1925, Erich von Stroheim)

They last said it needs another restoration as well as the other famous silents they own i.e The Scarlet Letter, The Wind, Show People, and The Big Parade.
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post #24 of 35
7/12/07 at 4:38am

Re: Greed (1925, Erich von Stroheim)

Greed was mentioned in the last WHV chat:

"DavidBarrios - Ok.First time attending one of these chats and I'm glad to be here. Remembering the DVD Decision 2005 vote, I remember that Greed, Von Stroheim's masterpiece, was one of the candidates and naturally, didn't win. When can we expect a release of this masterwork and would it be a three disc special editions or what would the plans be?

WARNER - When we release GREED, and we promise we will, it will be both the 1923 theatrical release and the 'reconstruction' in separate presentations within a larger set. Plans are still in utero, but it won't be much longer before the water breaks! "
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post #25 of 35
7/12/07 at 5:56am

Re: Greed (1925, Erich von Stroheim)

A restored print of The Big Parade was shown at the Museum of Modern Art recently. Though I was unfortunately unable to make the screening, the MOMA description of the film specifically mentioned it as a Warner-sponsored restoration, which hopefuly means we will be hearing something within the next few months.
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post #26 of 35
7/12/07 at 7:00am

Re: Greed (1925, Erich von Stroheim)

How's this for a plan?

Assemble Greed, The Big Parade, The Wind, & The Crowd all in a boxset and license Brownlow's documentary "Hollywood" as the topper!!

Warner has been good at licensing documentaries for other boxsets, why not this one. I've also noted that talk of this documentary's imminent release has subsequently quieted. HMMMMMMM?

Get the rumor mill started up!
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post #27 of 35
7/12/07 at 8:07am

Re: Greed (1925, Erich von Stroheim)

A TCM "great Silents" set would do nicely indeed, along with the legendary Brownlow-Gill documentary. Right now I'm reading Kevin Brownlow's book The Parade's Gone By, an excellent study of the silent years of Hollywood. If the Hollywood documentary were to be on DVD, it would lead to a lot more people watching silents on DVD.
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post #28 of 35
7/12/07 at 1:05pm

Re: Greed (1925, Erich von Stroheim)

Quote:
Rick Schmidlin's presentation of the four hour version is a magnificent effort - I saw it at the NFT (Digital projection - it wasn't done on film) and turned a great film into a stone cold masterpiece.

I would pay a lot to have this on a 2-disc set courtesy of those nice people at Warner Bros.

I loved the 4-hour Schmidlin version. I had never found the theatrical cut very interesting, but the story in the reconstruction was fascinating and gripping. Some of the best scenes were the ones with the stills. I don't know if I could have made it through all 8 hours though, unless i viewed it in parts, like, say the RSC production of Nicholas Nickelby.

Quote:
Right now I'm reading Kevin Brownlow's book The Parade's Gone By, an excellent study of the silent years of Hollywood. If the Hollywood documentary were to be on DVD, it would lead to a lot more people watching silents on DVD.

It has been awhile since I read The Parade's Gone By, but I believe Brownlow discusses the film of Von Sternburg showing the way he lit Dietrich on film. That clip is included on Criterion's The Scarlet Empress. I agree that the Brownlow book and Hollywood could bring a lot of people to silent films.
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post #29 of 35
7/12/07 at 4:33pm

Re: Greed (1925, Erich von Stroheim)

Warners said in the chat that restorations had to be done for Big Parade and the Crowd and that it would be 2009 at the earliest before these silents would make it to DVD. A restored print of the Big Parade on the big screen? Hmmm. I wonder if that transfer is DVD quality.

Also a box set that also includes the exellent documetry Hollywood would be nice but I'm not holding my breath for that kind of set. A small doc on Vidor or something maybe. This is Wanrer Video so anything is possible. If Mr. Feltentien can deliver that big doc he will. Can he give us Hollywood is another matter.
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post #30 of 35
7/12/07 at 6:53pm

Re: Greed (1925, Erich von Stroheim)

Richard, here are the details of the MOMA showing of THE BIG PARADE, this is from thier website:

The Big Parade. 1925. USA. Directed by King Vidor. Screenplay by Harry Behn. With John Gilbert, Renée Adorée, Karl Dane. Vidor's searing—and timeless—indictment of war has been restored by George Eastman House and Warner Bros. to its original full length, with color tinting and toning, from original and duplicate 35mm nitrate negatives. Silent. Approx. 141 min.
Saturday, June 9, 2007, 7:00 p.m., Theater 1, T1 (With piano accompaniment by Jon Spurney)
Wednesday, June 13, 2007, 6:30 p.m., Theater 1, T1 (With piano accompaniment by Jon Spurney)

Hopefully this means it will come sooner rather than later, 2009 is a long time from now!
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