Building the Ultimate Theater

Clint:

I personally believe that you cannot go wrong with getting (and these are my personal opinions) any of the following.

1) An SV Subwoofer. Especially the new PB2-ISD or the PB2+. They are the best bang for the buck subs out there.

2) The Sanyo PLV 70, Infocus 7200, Samsung SP-H700A or Optoma H76 front projectors. These have some of the brightest pictures with great contrast and again great value for the money. Besides there are some great deals on these going on right now.

3) Stewart Studiotek 130 or Firehawk with a 100 inch diagonal screen.

4) An Outlaw Audio 950 Preamp 770 poweramp combo or 7 model 200 monoblocks. When it comes to preamps and amps the Outlaw's offer the best bang for the buck out there.

These are my recommendations and I know that others will follow with other great examples. IMHO I believe that the above give the best performance for price out there.

Parker

Clint, for your "ultimate theater" I'd say the SVS B4+ is almost a must-have. Ferocious output, super-deep frequency response, and all that

As far as power amps, although I respect Outlaw on the whole, there are of course other companies building fantastic amps at reasonable prices. Parasound, ATI, and even some Marantz offerings spring to mind.

I would be interested to see a printed report in your magazine about many of the quality internet-only offerings which don't get much press. I would think that your new theater rooms would give you ample opportunity to try these products yourself.

Clint, whatever front projector you end up with (I have the Marantz VP12-S2 and it is awesome) try to get one with a DVI input. I know the Infocus has one as well as the Marantz or Sharp DLP pj's. Then get a DVI-based DVD player like the Bravo D1 or Samsung and combine it with a Stewart Firehawk screen and marvel at your picture!

Clint, I believe that Definitive Technology speakers are the way to go for your audio side of the Ultimate Theater. I would suggest the BP-2000 TL's, CLR 3000 Center, and BP-VXP powered Surrounds. With the 2000 TL's it comes with a built-in sub in each cabinet. If you want to add an additional sub, I would recommend a Super Cube I or II to complement and even out the low frequencies. I personally have the Definitive PF 1500. It has a 250 amp, and I put in a DTS Demo CD, and the frequncy sine wave went all the way down to 10, it shook the house with no effort!! So can you imagine what a sub with a 500 W amp would do?

On the video side, I would agree with David. I just saw the Marantz projector that he has at a local authorized dealer, and I was amazed. I have to say that I would get the SharpVision, it has almost the same specs as the Marantz, for a cheaper price. Like Parker, I just recently downloaded a spec sheet for the Sanyo PLV 70 projector. Looks good, but I think that I would personally get a DLP projector. As far as screens go, I am not the expert, but I have been looking at the Firehawk and Greyhawk, even though I haven't bought a decent screen for my projector just yet.

As far as surround processing and amplification, there are too many to say the least. I think that I would ultimatelty need to know how much you are planning to spend. But, my recommendations would be the Denon AVR-5803 or the Pioneer Elite 49TXi. But, I know that Pioneer is coming out with something to replace the 49TXi. I believe that it will be called the Pioneer Elite 59TXi.

When its all complete, please post some pictures so that we can see what you have accomplished.

I hope it turns out well. No, I hope it turns out great!!

RF

Hi Clint... I'm not a fan of "theater seating" per se. Oftentimes, we're watching 3-4 hour movies and there's something to be said for being able to stretch out, or cuddle the kids during a Disney flick (or the wife, for that matter). Sure, you lose part of the "theater feel", but the tradeoff is comfort... just my opinion.

I completed my new HT late last year and went with 3 tiered rows of sofas (3 leather sofas). Go to my profile (or the little HT icon above) and follow the link - click on "members systems", I am system #57.

Good luck.


Herb.

Ahhhh cupholders...

Good luck.


Herb.

A few thoughts:

I agree that you have to check out an SVS sub. I have a 16-42 in my theater and it is phenomenal.

Speaker-wise, I'd strongly suggest looking at Triad speakers. They make both free standing and in-wall speakers (including in-wall dipoles) and they sound fantastic. I used their freestanding Gold L/C/Rs for my front mains (all mounted behind a microperf screen) and their Silver In-Wall dipoles for the four surrounds. They match perfectly, are invisible to the eye and sound fantastic. They are also quite inexpensive and deliver a magnificent bang for the buck.

I really feel that in-wall surrounds are the way to go because they don't detract from the look of the room. Afterall, the surrounds need to be heard, they don't need to be seen.

I'd also recommend going with a microperf screen and putting your center channel (at minimum) centered horizonally and vertically behind the screen. It really does make a difference when you hear the dialog coming from the middle of the screen rather than from above or below the screen. With a 100-110 foot screen the center location difference will definitely be noticable. I went with a Stewart screen, but DaLite makes an excellent microperf as well. You'll pay more for a perforated screen, but the difference is worth it.

Without question, though, the most important thing you can do is acoustically treat your room. This isn't necessarily inexpensive to do, but can be done relatively reasonably. You want to divide your room into lower (below ear at a sitting position) and upper halves. The lower half should be treated so that it is primarily absorptive. This is easily accomplished using an acoustic insulation such those made my Johns Manville. The upper half should be more reflective and a good way to do that is to use cotton batting. (The rear wall behind the screen should be also treated with sound absorbing insulation.)

Cover all the acoustic treatment with a acoustically transparent cloth. Guilford of Maine makes a wide line of textures and patterns.

-greg

I'm partial to the Stewart StudioTek 130 screen because of its adaptability to almost any FP technology. I started with an LCD (one of the first SONY VW10HT's) and moved on to a Runco CL-710 DLP FP. The screen works great with both (and you will eventually change your FP no matter what to intend to do.) I always intended to change my FP but hope to make my screen investment a very long one.

Also, on the seating, I'm a believer in both comfortable and theatrical seating for the full HT experience. I went with some LaZboys for the front and some genuine Radio City Music Hall seats for the second row (and a bit of theatrical nostalgia and "wow" factor.) Check my website for a link to see if there are any of these classic seats left for sale.

Also, on the seating, while I went with some traditional recliners, LaZboy has added a line of modular theatrical seats that look as though they can be configured in a number of ways to satisfy just about any room and seating requirements. I believe you can see their HT line here. If I was starting from scratch today I probably would have chosen this new line rather than the ones I did (although I'm happy with my current seating.)

And on the question of HT speakers, you must at least consider M&K speakers on your short list. To me, they produce some of the finest theatrical sound out there for the HT buff. Of course, speakers are the most subjective area that you will encounter so your mileage may vary.

I beta tested the Outlaw 950 pre/pro and still use Outlaw amplification. I agree with Parker that the 950 is a great bang-for-the-buck unit. But also add Lexicon pre/pros to your component consideration list if your are considering a "dream" theater (without getting into the supermegabuck range). I recently upgraded to their MC-8.

Feel free to look through my rather extensive HT website for other ideas, etc. And ask any questions you want.

Clint:

Since you already have the Def Tech line in your subwoofer I would highly recommend their line of speakers. I have some of the their first speakers in the BP 20s, CLR 1000 and BP2s (which I have recently changed to the BPX models). I personally believe their BP 30s make for a great front speaker and I know of several members that use them for their surrounds. The CLR 3000 is one fine center channel too.

Parker

Yes. I am using the 950 and the 770 combo. I cannot believe the neutrality of this combination. By that I mean that it does not color the sound in any way. And at the same time I can hear nuances in recordings that I very familiar with that I never heard before (even on my vinyl recordings). And to my ear that is not an easy feat to accomplish.

So the combination of the Def Tech line of speakers with the Outlaw Pre/Pro and (in my case an SV Sub) got me the "sound" that I was looking for both in music and soundtracks.

Now I just have to find that same type of satisfaction on the video end. For me I have yet to find it but they are getting closer and for my eyes the Infocus 5700 just about did it. I mean when a guy with a Runco CRT system with a line doubler tells you that the picture from the 5700 on a 10 foot by 20 foot screen looks better it makes you think.

Theater chairs. To me its what feels good to sit on and that like audio and video are personal choices. 10 years ago there were very few choices. Today there are far too many.

The one thing that you haven't mentioned that I feel passionate about is the room itself. I know you mentioned size but I believe that room treatment (live end / dead end with double wall construction) is a must. Also, I have found that have about a 10 to 15 degree pitch to the roof is a must so it is not flat. That little bit of pitch allows the room to "open" up and pull your eye into the picture. Its amazing what this does to a room. I have only seen this done once but the difference was phenomenal.

Again, this is all stuff that I have observed in person over the years. Testing and testing got me to the point that I really didn't care anymore. It took getting away from the tests to be able to "hear" and "see" a difference.

I am really excited to see what our members come up with as suggestions and your final outcome. This is going to be fun.

Parker

Give us a drawing of your workable room size and we can help design the room for you!

Wes

All very nice recommendations. As you can see, Clint, selecting components for a Home Theater can be as elusive as selecting the right car. Lots of ways to go. And very often, the most expensive solution might not be the best solution.

Case in point: If your display is capable of DVI input there's a $199 DVD player out there (Vinc.'s Bravo D1) that outputs DVI directly, producing a picture that rivals the megabucks players.

Like I said, lots of ways to go here. Good luck in your continuing quest for HT nirvana.

For Seating I'd recommend Berkline. Their Home Theater chairs are very comfortable and very affordable as well. They are about $1,000 a chair cheaper than the Lazyboys. Lane also makes a HT chair but I didn't care for the chair at all.

PJ Wise: You could go all over the map here. It all depends on cost. Personally you have to decide if you want to deal or can deal with the rainbows that DLP's have or the ones I've seen have. For some they are not obvious, for others they give out headaches. For me I wouldn't want to take a risk that my friends would come over and get headaches so I would rule them out and deal with a LCD setup or if I could afford the dough, the new Sony SXRD setup. With the market the way it is, I'd almost buy the Cheaper HS20 Projector and wait a few years for that market to settle down a bit.

Speaker wise it all depends on what you like as far as sound goes. If you like the in wall idea, then Triads are excellent. If you don't and you want to change from Def Tech(I don't personally like them) then the sky is the limit. Speakers are so personal.

Sub wise: I'd go with a SVS Pb2+ or the b4+ depending on how much room you have. I almos think that a pb2+ would be enough.

Amp/Pre wise: While Outlaw is an option, I don't care for their product that much on the preamp side. I would personally be willing to pay more money for features such as Logic 7 on the Lexicon or the upgradability such as the Anthem has. The Anthem avm20 is probably my favorite of the current processors. They DO listen to their customers wants and as of late have put out a number of software upgrade/feature upgrades. Outlaw amps are good though.

At this point its going to come down to your own personal preferences such as would you pay extra $$ for the functionality that the Anthem/Lexicon over the Outlaw offerings.

Hey Clint,

I see the recommendations flying in. I want to take issue with some of the comments about theater seating. I have done a great deal of research on this category...as you know. I was surprised to see the one about Berkline!! Lazyboy?? What is going on in this world? Like the many products mentioned here...I haven't seen one recommendation for those wonderful Realistic Loudspeakers from Radio Shack!! Are you kidding me? Common guys, Berkline, LazyBoy, Lane, Ashley, BarcaLounger...Radio Shack, same thing. Rolex...Timex, both watches right? Chevy makes two Vettes, Corvette, Chevette...both cars right...come on!!!! What is under the skin of all those cheap seats?...cheap seats. If you are as serious about your investment for your theater gear...use your head the same way and buy long lasting, comfortable, quality seating from an expert...PERIOD. Ever hear, "You get what you pay for"... Check out CinemaTech, PremiereHTS, First Impressions...the experts, life time guarantees, etc. Happy hunting!!

I would look at Classe avpre ssp60 amp there cav500 and one pair of there mono amps.Speakers Von Schweikert Vr7 and lcr50
Vr 310 for the side's and vr1 for the back.Sub svs P4+ with k2 amp.Tv Marantz new 3chip dlp projector dvd Linn 1.1 Room done in Isc isowall system.ButtKicker2 3 preroll 2v 1h.

Hi Clint!

Any idea of a rough equipment budget? That will allow us to respond with "reasonable" suggestions within that constraint.

If I had the money I would probably look at these products:

Projector: Sony HS20 Widescreen LCD (new). Don't spend a lot on an FP for now as we are now moving into the realm of more affordable, true 1080p within a couple years with much greater pixel density (less possibility of visible pixel grid structures). The Sony seems like a great bang for the buck (around $2,800 online) and includes HDMI and DVI-D/HDCP ports so you have a choice of digital connections.

Screen: I'd fire off some correspondence to Stewart Filmscreen. Don Stewart would probably be the best person to give you advise on this. Consider masking as an option.

Pre-amp: Lexicon MC-8b or MC-12b with the latest circuit board and software upgrades. My next suggestion would be a Parasound Halo C-2. Look at the ability to upgrade parts and features... a make or break in my book (when all else fails, Lexicon does have buy-back upgrade options too). If any of these suggestions are out of your price range then the upgraded Anthem AVM-20 V.2 is hard to beat in the midrange processor category. All of these suggestions have low noise balanced outputs.

Amp(s): Bryston, ATI, or something similar. Be sure it's fully balanced from input to output stage. For example, Sherbourn has XLR inputs, but the circuit topology is not balanced. This is a tough category as the amp and pre-amp have to have audio synergy. Mix and match to your tastes.

Speakers: Again, a very subjective area. Speakers will voice slightly different depending on what pre-amp and amp combo you go with, and what type of room they will reside in. Be sure your retailer will allow you to take some floor models home to audition. That said, I recommend looking at B&W, JM/Focal Labs, PSB, Revel, Tannoy, Mirage, Energy, and the like. Internet speakers can seem like a great way to get a price break, until you realize you can't audition them without paying to ship them back if they don't work out (talk about a penalty to your wallet)! I HIGHLY recommend going with completely matching speakers all the way around (if you can build your room to accommodate that). That goes doubly for the center speaker: it should be 100% identical to the main left and right speakers. One good reason an acoustically transparent perforated screen should be strongly considered. You may or may not be able to afford or design a room that handles fully matched back surrounds.

Surge protection & filtration: Non MOV-based products must be considered. MOV's are cheap and will degrade over time (Panamax and Monster use MOV's). A worn-out surge protector will give you practically no protection whatsoever if you get a direct lightning strike (when you need it most). Be sure to protect coaxial and telephone lines coming and going from your theater equipment. Also, be sure the product does not restrict power flow to your equipment. If you use 20 AMP Romex and breakers, check to make sure your protection device handles 20 AMP lines. Use high grade wall recepticles too. Products from Equi-Tech, Richard Gray's (mainly for video equipment), Furman Sound, SMART, Brickwall, PS Audio, etc. are ones to consider.

Seating: Be sure your seat back is not higher than ear level. You do not want to block or muffle sound coming from your side and back surround speakers when the chair (especially a recliner) is in "movie watching" position. This is a common mistake by both seat designers and consumers, and one that must be avoided. Hopefully, while shopping around you set aside blocks of time to sit and relax in the chair or sofa for a couple of hours. The true test of any seat is the ability for it to allow you to sit comfortably with good support for long stretches at a time without your back aching, legs getting numb, and/or you nodding off (!!). The buck stops at your choice of seating. This will effect the entire room design: riser height, spacing, leg room considerations, aisle room, sight lines, seating distances, etc.

The Room: Set aside enough of your budget for an a/v and acoustic professional (like Dennis Erskine) to lay out detailed plans for your theater, even if you will be doing most of the construction work yourself. The next step, after the rough frame and drywall, and wiring is set is getting the room acoustically adjusted by the same person or another audio specialist. Fine tuning your room with a variety of products (like from RPG, Owens-Corning, etc.) is very important before covering your walls with fabric, home made paneling, etc. I know many DIY'ers just use the basic dead front, live back approach without acoustic room analysis, but really getting down and dirty with your room's specific weaknesses and strengths is the best way to ensure spectacular audio results.

Hope this helps! Good luck.

Dan

Three elements we added to our recent basement remodel (based on suggestions by Dennis Erskine) are a front stage, side columns & hidden components. These features give our basement the exact "theater" feeling we wanted.

Our stage is 13' wide & 4' deep with a 1' arc in front.

The side columns enclose di-pole speakers behind GOM fabric. The side and rear speakers have "in-wall" rated 12ga. speaker wire run in the ceiling and walls.

The components are in an unfinished part of our basement. We have a 5 disc DVD player for convenience & use a "dinky link" IR receiver wired to a connecting block, then to blink IR emitters attached to the components.

We are currently using a Pioneer Elite 610 for video, but pre-wired for a future front projector during the construction.

Another cool element is a Lutron remote controlled dimmer. It controls track lighting and recessed rope lighting located in a tray ceiling.

We have our system plugged in to a dedicated 20 amp circuit. The heating system was designed to be as quiet as possible, with 4-5 90 degree turns in all of the ducts. The doors in the room are exterior heavy weight doors.

My last suggestion is to plan everything out to the last detail! Consider lighting, wall colors, access to snacks & bathroom, etc.

Don't forget the popcorn machine!

Have fun...as soon as the project is over you'll want to start over again!

Clint:

Another guy to give a call to is our own Gregg Loewen with Lion AV for your friends' G90.

Also, give Tom or Ron an email at SV Subwoofers and let them know what you are planning on. They are great to work with and make a fantastic line of subs.

Parker