STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE 09/10/'03: "The Xindi" - Page 3

Kinda made me think of the probe from Star Trek IV, since they sounded whale-like...

Jason

I don't think it is the show that needs to be shelved. It is Berman & Braga. I cannot believe how much slack these guys are getting from Paramount. If you have good writing Trek could go on for many more years.

To all those shaking their heads about the shirtless T'Pol and Trip.

uh... the whole Original Series was a vehicle for Shatner to sex it up with every alien he came across! They ran around half naked in that show all the time and now people are calling it cheap... what's changed? (note: rhetorical, I'm not interested in answers to that question, just to let ya know )

Geez, I taped it and watched it this morning, I didn't notice anythig different about the theme song, but I was watching to see if the words STAR TREK would appear above Enterprise... it didn't happen. I guess I wasn't quite awake enough to realize the theme is different... I'll have to give it another listen.

As for the episode... It was ok. I could not stand the scene with T'Pol and Trip though. And I doubt a Vulcan would be modest enough to cover their breasts!

Ric

You're absolutely right, on both counts. That's the root of my temporary confusion. They ARE interchangeable.

-Scott

The one that mentioned the xindi that swam in the water, it reminded me of the spacing guild from Children of Dune. And I agree the meeting looked like it was out of episode2 ,but thats not a bad thing, they only thing I didnt care for was the topless tpol, I tune into star trek for star trek, if i want topless, i just go to the computer in the next room for he pornernet (or to the layman, internet)

Come now. That was just a by-product of Kirk's rampant machismo

And you can hardly say that that is all fans back then tuned in to see back then, and it is no more so now..

I think that's what I was reminded of. I'll have to check it out.

Thanks!

Ralph

I don't mind the sex appeal at all, perhaps because it is the one time when characters are forced to relate to each other. Plus, how Vulcans and humans get along is one of the show's core themes. I might mind if they were doing this with a couple humans, because that would probably be just so they can have some scenes without costly special effects. But here, even if it is titillating it _is_ part of the story about how two cultures collide, or blend. Indeed, that's the one long-running story arc that interests me.

And it is sexy, which is better than technobabble, IMO.

Ric, you beat me to it. I was thinking that had *I* been the director of that (totally unnecessary) scene, I would have shot Blalock from the shoulders up in front, and from the back would have had her sitting there with her arms at her sides. Modesty strikes me as being rather... well... illogical.

But... had they shot that way, they would have lost most of the titillation factor. (pun not intended.)

On the whole, I enjoyed it.

I like the Xindi. I think there is huge potential there. (The insect guy did NOT remind me of Episode II.. rather I thought it looked like a better version of the puppet "crime boss" in Season 1, Babylon 5.) I do not see the connection that some people are making to the Dominion, other than multiple races are involved. You can easily say that about the Federation as well...

I do NOT like the change to the theme. I'm one of the seemingly few who liked it as it was. Now it sounds more pop-ish and upbeat, which does NOT match the darker turn the show is supposed to be taking.

I liked seeing Archer more driven and angry. Hope he doesn't stay that way ALL the time though.

I liked the MACO's. Was cool to see them kick the sh!t outta the bad guys. Although I'm a little confused as to why a "Major" is addressing a "Lieutenant" as "sir". That doesn't fit in my mind...

Liked the little thing with the cargo bay. I have no trouble with this, as they did establish that the laws of physics go out the window in "The Expanse". So that means pretty much anything can happen...

Great new shots of the ship.

And has been stated, the scene with Trip and T'Pol was just unrequired, and only served to cheapen the series...

I'm hopeful.

Just a general question to everyone who has a problem with the T'Pol scene: do love scenes in movies also make you change the channel? I'm just wondering if this anti-nudity theme is unique to Trek.

I think it's the overt pandering aspect of including this sort of scene in Enterprise that sets off the "roll my eyes" response in my head. I've got nothing against love scenes if they advance the story and develop characters, but these scenes in Enterprise serve very little in either department.

Same as marines on the ol' Man O'Wars.. The chain of command on the ship supercedes that of the marines, which makes them subordinent.. Or maybe they just have the "sir" drilled into them, I'm not sure. Can somebody with a military background help me out?



Exaaactly! Thank YOU, Patrick!

Oh hell, I've got no prob with nudity. And T'Pol/Blalock is mighty attractive.

BUT... I'm totally with Patrick on this one. It neither advances the story nor develops the characters. The skin is just there to titillate, and hopefully to pull in more young-male-viewers.



Doug, I do have a military background.

Not sure how it works elsewhere, but in both the US and the Canadian military (yes we have one) a "Major" is actually the equivalent of a naval Lieutenant Commander. As such, a Major actually outranks a Lieutenant by one grade. (Starfleet ranks are based on naval ranks...)

Hence my confusion.

However....



That DOES make a certain amount of sense. But I never served on a ship with a marine contingent, so I have no clue how that works.

And what's worse, the music doesn't match the images very well any more. I found it kind of fascinating how, without changing the music very much, they'd made something that worked well together feel like a sloppy mess.

I don't mind nudity. I'm in favor of it, really. And maybe, if I didn't pay as much attention to the production stuff where Trek is concerned, I wouldn't see the cynicism of that scene.

But I doubt it. It's an awkardly-staged scene. T'Pol is covering her breasts for no other reason than that there's a camera recording the scene. It's an attempt to pander, but not a particularly sexy one. Enterprise is trying to arouse the audience, but doesn't know how to do it.

Compare it to the average episode of TOS, where Kirk would lose his shirt and there'd be some lady in something fairly sexual. Even though they're probably showing less, it's sexier, because the characters' sexuality seemed to be a part of them, rather than something imposed from without. The same audience for Trek probably also watched Farscape, Firefly, and Andromeda without complaining about skin there, but, again, the sexuality is a natural part of the characters.

Of course, given that the franchise is pushing 40, maybe its attitude makes sense. It was freewheeling when it was young, but now it's gotten more conservative, and its attempts to express itself seem awkward and embarrassed.

Re: T"pol and her exploitation.

As was mentioned above, there might be a germ of an argument to say that B&B are paying homage to Classic Trek and William Ware Thiess and his creations for such female guest stars as :

Angelique Pettyjohn, Shana of "Gamester Of Triskelion",

Lt. Carolyn Palamas from "Who Mourns for Adonis",

or Orion Slave girls just to name a few examples.

I think Roddenberry himself was for this. But those were a sign of the times and were representing alien species of women of those times.

I agree they are just using Blalock now for cheap sensationlism to capture a young male audience. Agree with Pat, as was sort of done with TOS, they need to use these stituations as part of the story or character.

Then you would know more about it than me, Tony.

But that's the theory I'm going with until we get a 2nd opinion.. It's a fairly important question now that I think of it.. Affects the whole dynamics between the MACOs and the crew of Enterprise..

Maybe thinking of the Kzinti, who Larry Niven loaned to an episode of the animated series called "The Slaver Weapon" (a re-working of his short story "The Soft Weapon")?

The gravity shift would only have to be slight for Archer and Tucker to be unaffected, standing where they are. You're trying to rationalize your argument by assuming you know how the gravity technology works on the ship in the first place. It certainly isn't generated the traditional way (by mass), or by rotation. Is it implausible that an anomaly has attached itself, or reacted with, the walls of the cargo bay, or disrupted somehow the Enterprise's internal "gravity generators" for that section?

But I agree, it is silly. But still more silly to nitpick one impossible thing based on other impossible things, which was my original point.

The Dominion was not a "race" or "species". The Dominion was a concept, just like the Federation. The Dominion was founded by, of course, the Founders, a race a shape shifters. They found a not very evolved simian race on some planet somewhere and they genetically enhanced them. These became the Vorta. The Jem Hadar were genetically enginered to be the soldiers of the Dominion, and they believe (are genetically programed to believe) that the Founders are Gods.

The Xindi concept is completely different. Several species evolving on the same planet and reaching some kind of equilibrium, instead of only one enduring while the others go extinct.

I thought it was a decent episode, though I still long for the days of glory of DS9. I'll reserve judgement on the new season until I've seen more than one episode from this season (yeah, I know, CRAZY!).

Personally, I enjoyed the topless scene. Maybe that's because I enjoy sex with girls. But hey, to each their own!

Wow, man. There was lots of fightin' and rayguns blastin' ever which way. Archer was whoopin' ass. T'Pol got nekkid. And lots and lots and lots of action. Weird-lookin' aliens (fishies, bugs, man). We was never treated to this kinda shit before, man. I was, like, wow, man. Cool. Fuckin' A, man. Wow.

This series is going to tank in its third season. The hell with it. And I'd like to get the sort of job security those pathetic jokers/executive producers have. Really, what a joke. Back to watching Sunday's repeat showings while I fold my laundry.

With William Ware Theiss a willing co-conspirator - one of the first things they did on TNG (in "The Naked Now") was give Denise Crosby a costume that showed her navel and the bottoms of her breasts, since those were things they couldn't get away with on TOS.

It's all about respecting the creator's vision. If the pretty, half-naked girls come from the writer's soul, it's going to work, but when it comes from an outside mandate, it probably won't.

As any viewer of Hercules, Xena, Farscape, Firefly, Andromeda or Alias will tell you. All of those shows were/are fairly successful in part by selling eye candy. Of course, they've all got characters who aren't boring asexual placeholders with maybe one personality trait each, like B&B Trek characters tend to be.

I jest.

O come on... I'll use statement a friend of mine uses sometimes... Open your mind! (yes, you can go ahead and make the jokes and wry statements about that that I know are coming)

Who are you, or anyone, to say you/we know how things happen when they don't obey the known laws of physics? My goodess, maybe there's a spot on the ship that, when walked through, they turn purple, then back to normal if they continue walking. Who are you/we to say that an anomoly would not be localized on the ship somehow?! Trying to argue with it while grasping for an understanding of current laws and 'plausibilties'? Highly, highly erroneous if you ask me (which I know no one asked :p )

I think Warren Ellis pretty much nails this one.