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HTF REVIEW: Sleeping Beauty SE (Disney) --VERY HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!! - Page 4

post #91 of 157
9/10/03 at 7:31pm
Ladies and gentlemen...put your hands together for David Boulet!

This review is awesome in every way, and I want to thank you personally for putting forth such a professional and detailed effort! This release was on my radar anyway, but now I am definitely going to run out and pick it up, especially since I have a little bit of a break between screeners!

Thanks again David, you are a tough act to follow. Please don't raise the bar any higher!

Regards,

Jason
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post #92 of 157
9/10/03 at 7:55pm
wow, that's alot of crop.
are we waiting to see if the entire dvd is cropped that much, or do we know now?
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post #93 of 157
9/10/03 at 7:56pm
Looks to me like the black borders within the frame would be indicative of what would be exposed to the Technirama camera, and it looks slightly narrower than 2.35:1. RAH, what is your verdict?
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post #94 of 157
9/10/03 at 8:12pm
Those black borders are the markers I've put on to show the edges of the UK dvd picture info.
Outside of that it's anyone's guess as to how much would have been originally shown.
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post #95 of 157
9/10/03 at 8:26pm
Is there panning or zooming in the scene that cel is from?
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post #96 of 157
9/10/03 at 8:50pm
IIRC, I believe there is a zoom.
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post #97 of 157
9/11/03 at 4:58am
The scene in question appears on the PAL UK R2 dvd at 1 hour 6min 42 seconds, and there is no zoom, pan or movement of any kind in that exact shot, except for the smoke & flames.

I would like to say, I've amended the picture having just re-viewed the scene in question, there appears to be a little more picture info on the left hand side, but now I may have been too generous with the lower horizontal, it's a little tighter on the dvd transfer than I've marked out.
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post #98 of 157
9/11/03 at 5:44am
I A/B'd it with my CLV laserdisc. The aspect ratio is essentially the same, but the content of the frame is not. The laserdisc has a little more information on the bottom and a little more cropping on the top. The title card that RAH mentioned is a good example. The text is not cropped on the laserdisc, but it is very tight. On the DVD it is partially cropped. There is no evidence of side cropping between them that I could see.

Regards,
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post #99 of 157
9/11/03 at 6:59am
This is a wonderful presentation of the film, and a great DVD overall. My 3-year-old was mesmerized.
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post #100 of 157
9/11/03 at 7:09am
Quote - I A/B'd it with my CLV laserdisc. The aspect ratio is essentially the same, but the content of the frame is not. The laserdisc has a little more information on the bottom and a little more cropping on the top - Quote

I must just say, the cell I used clearly isn't the finished animation as seen in the final print, it's still missing other additions, but essentially it's most if not ALL of the width & height of the original animation cell. I used it as a rough example of what's missing, that is until the clips of 35mm film arrive.

I too noticed the horizontal top of the NTSC laserdisc was slightly more cropped.

Saying that, I adore this film & love my dvd set! It looks stunning on my 43" plasma.
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post #101 of 157
9/11/03 at 7:24am
Just to be clear, my post wasn't meant to have anything to do with Simon's posts, just the framing of the DVD vs. laserdisc. I don't have sufficient access to or knowledge of SB film frames and animation cells to comment with any certainty beyond that.

Based solely on the known 2.2:1 or so aspect ratio of 70mm prints derived from Technirama elements, it seems pretty clear that both transfers are cropped, and they are cropped slightly differently.

Regards,
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post #102 of 157
9/11/03 at 9:16am
I'm not sure, but someone might want to check out the Walt Disney's Nine old Men book to see if there are any frames of sleeping beauty in the book. I know they have 35mm strips running throughout the book, but I can't remember how Sleeping Beauty was shown.

Adam
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post #103 of 157
9/11/03 at 10:19am
Quote:
As a quick reference of how much of the image may be missing at the bottom of the frame please refer to the MPAA logo in the main titles.

RAH


That's real interesting, considering I referred to the same thing on the "restored" Touch of Evil DVD.

(I'm not trying to hijack this thread, just hoping that people will notice this important point being made by RAH.)

Touch of Evil Laserdisc


Touch of Evil DVD:
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post #104 of 157
9/11/03 at 10:44am
Simon, if it's possible, be sure to note on your scans the size of the 35mm clips. If they're positive clips from reduction 35 (four perforations tall for vertical passage through a projector), corrected for Technirama's anamorphosis, they'll represent the correct reduction print sent to theatres, where some further, minor masking might take place to hide scan lines, etc.. If it's a positive print of the original eight perforation 35mm Technirama negative or other original eight perf element (measured horizontally in this case, not vertically, as the 35mm negative image passes horizontally through the camera when recorded), then it'll better indicate what 70mm audiences would have seen in theatres.

It may not be possible to determine this from your cells, Simon, I dunno. But figuring out just what we're missing, if it's anything appreciable, from a reduction print and just what we're missing from an original 70mm presentation of the film should both be of value for collectors.
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post #105 of 157
9/11/03 at 11:12am
Thread Starter 
Discussions like this remind me of just how great a resource HTF can be for film enthusiasts everywhere. Contributions from experts and novices alike.

This is why I'm proud to be part of this great HTF community! (obligatory tear comes to eye and I can hear Copland music playing in the background...)

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post #106 of 157
9/11/03 at 12:07pm
That Universal logo screencap from the dvd looks squeezed...
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post #107 of 157
9/11/03 at 1:48pm
Quote:
That Universal logo screencap from the dvd looks squeezed...

Hmm, and I was thinking that the laserdisc one was the one that looked squeezed. I mean, the globe pretty clearly doesn't look round on the top image.
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post #108 of 157
9/11/03 at 6:28pm
blind buy for me (tho DaViDs rave helped) and after watching the Grand Canyon short and '4 Artists Paint A Tree', i can say is the money was well worth it.
i originally became interested in this title because of the association with Eyvind Earle, and it was great to see how much of the supplmental material references him.
am waiting to get my projector in before i actually watch the film, but so far it looks like a real winner!
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post #109 of 157
9/12/03 at 4:31pm
The Universal globe doesn't look round on EITHER image. When one gets a screen cap in from a DVD, one must be very very careful, because DVD pixels are not square, like computer pixels are.

If the proper correction is not applied, results will be indeterminate!

Ted
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post #110 of 157
9/12/03 at 7:48pm
For me, I am just thrilled to see SB in widescreen. After watching the P&S tape for years, this new DVD is a revelation. So much of the beautiful artwork can now be seen. I also love the widescreen to p&s comparison. Now if only I had a tv that can do the dvd justice!
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post #111 of 157
9/13/03 at 5:31pm
Quote:
The scene in question appears on the PAL UK R2 dvd at 1 hour 6min 42 seconds, and there is no zoom, pan or movement of any kind in that exact shot, except for the smoke & flames.


No, there is most definitely a zoom. Just watched this myself. On the R1 DVD at 109:06, Maleficent "lands" in front of Prince Phillip at the end of the thorn forest and it zooms in.
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post #112 of 157
9/13/03 at 5:41pm
Yes there is movement you're right, but the 'actual' shot the cell is from, there is no movement when the wicked Queen is fully transformed.
This is the frame/cell background I have used as an example of cropping.

The 35mm non amamorphic film clips I ordered have arrived & as I thought they are from the trailer which crops the full horizontal 2:20:1 or 2:35:1 width down to about 1:85:1, what is deeply dissapointing is they show a fair bit of vertical picture information that's cropped off on the NTSC laserdisc & the dvd transfer.

Once I have the best ones scanned I'll put them up on my page for all to compare.
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post #113 of 157
9/13/03 at 7:33pm
I've got mine on the way and can't freakin' wait. I'm also glad Disney decided to step up their Platinum release schedule.


BTW - used DVD's for sale by clicking on the link below.
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post #114 of 157
9/13/03 at 8:33pm
I don't have this title yet and have read all the posts but I can't find how the movie is on the disc 3 times. Wide, p&s, & ?
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post #115 of 157
9/14/03 at 6:25am
Just watched this yesterday and I was blown away by the gorgeous backgrounds and unique artistic style. This is a truly beautiful film with an outstanding restoration (aside from the framing issues).
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post #116 of 157
9/14/03 at 10:31am
I'm curious about this...

On Sleeping Beauty, both the fullscreen and OAR versions are on the same side of the same disk. Yet, the Spanish and French soundtracks are exclusive to the fullscreen version --- and the commentary track is exclusive to the OAR version.

Why couldn't all the audio tracks be available to both of the aspect ratios? Was this a decision made by Disney folks, or is there some technical reason why a given soundtrack couldn't be assigned to either or both of the visual files?
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post #117 of 157
9/14/03 at 11:30am
David, it's caused by what layers the soundtracks are on. The WS version is on one layer, along with an English track and the commentary, and the full-screen is on another layer, with the Spanish and French tracks (and presumably an additional English track).
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post #118 of 157
9/14/03 at 11:53am
They could have put all audio tracks on all versions, but that would have taken up more disc space and hurt the video quality.
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post #119 of 157
9/14/03 at 1:57pm
Thread Starter 
Haven't checked myself (can't play a P/S image on my 16x9 TV ) but I'm wondering if the P/S image shows more or less vertical information than the WS image???

-dave
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post #120 of 157
9/15/03 at 6:47am
David,
The P&S version does not crop the MPAA logo on the title card, so the vertical cropping is different.

Regards,
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