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Former House Science Committee chairman believes China is headed to the Moon.

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 
Though we keep hearing optimistic pronouncements about China's goals for its manned spaceflight program, this is certainly the most interesting. Former House Science Committee chairman Robert S. Walker writes in The Washington Times that China appears headed to the Moon. What strikes me as possibly fanciful is the timetable: within a decade.

Remember, Shenzhou 5, the first manned Chinese space mission, is scheduled for a fall 2003 launch (probably in October). Given China's economy, an ambitious program to launch manned missions beyond low-Earth orbit seems a bit optimistic, especially when one factors in the country's plans to loft a rudimentary manned space station into orbit.

It would be great, but one wonders.

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20030...2308-4284r.htm
post #2 of 41
This would be great, if only because a little competition might finally get the US program kicked into high gear again.
post #3 of 41
Yup, I agree with Craig (a fellow League City resident).

Lacking the resources to build a base or mine the minerals there in a cost-effective manner, this'll be nothing more than a dog and pony show. Still, I hope they do it.
post #4 of 41
Heck just tell George Bush that China wants to establish a military/terrorist base on the Moon. Then NASA will get some funding in a hurry.....
post #5 of 41
Heck just tell George Bush that China wants to establish a military/terrorist base on the Moon. Then NASA will get some funding in a hurry.....

That's pretty much how we got to the moon.
post #6 of 41
I told you so. It worked the last time.
post #7 of 41
Man, you guys beat me to it

I'm sure that if China actually lands, we'll go back at least once. After all, the commies might take down those US flags! (which in all honestly are probably white sheets by now )
post #8 of 41
So the moon is made of tritium, not green cheese.
post #9 of 41
I'm sure that if China actually lands, we'll go back at least once. After all, the commies might take down those US flags! (which in all honestly are probably white sheets by now )

They will have to pry them from the cold dead fingers of Charton Heston.

Shouldn't have ordered those flags from France.
post #10 of 41
Too bad they aren't headed to Mars.
post #11 of 41
Thread Starter 
Ah, but the first of two robotic rover proxies is headed that way come June, which certainly has you excited (hell, we're all excited about that). And, of course, there's a Japanese mission and a European mission getting revved up. Mars will be taking centerstage first of the year, if all goes well. (Please remind everybody to agree to a measurements standard this time around, Ms. K.)

If the Chinese economy were more robust I'd be more optimistic about all this Moon talk.
post #12 of 41
Quote:
agree to a measurements standard this time around


MKS or CGS or SI?
post #13 of 41
The whole country?

Nice to know that when I finally get to the moon, I'll be able to get some good sweet-and-sour pork.

The problem with sending a Chinese guy to the moon? Five minutes later, you want to send another one.
post #14 of 41
Are we positive that China is destined to make a moon landing? Perhaps they are building a studio of a moonscape so that they can fake the pictures like we did!

I can just smell the conspiracy theory brewing now!!!
post #15 of 41
I'm excited about the Japanese missions which will photograph the moon landing sites.
post #16 of 41
Quote:
Ah, but the first of two robotic rover proxies is headed that way come June, which certainly has you excited (hell, we're all excited about that). And, of course, there's a Japanese mission and a European mission getting revved up.


I can see it now. "Rovers from competing countries involved in a head-on collision on the moon. Initial reports indicate this was no accident. Is this the first case of 'Moon Rage'?"
post #17 of 41
Quote:
Rovers from competing countries involved in a head-on collision on the moon.
Well, someone will have certainly made a massive mistake if these rovers end up on the moon

Quote:
Please remind everybody to agree to a measurements standard this time around
It is impossible to get everyone to agree. Everything will be fine as long as everyone states their standard and sticks with it.
post #18 of 41
They should use the old Imperial system!

How many stones of fuel is needed to lift 30 pounds of payload into orbit 50,000 leagues above the earth, given that the efficiency of the fuel is 80,000 candles of energy per fluid ounce?

I can see the mission control computer programmers will have a great time debugging the software that makes the calculation!

It'll be cool to see a red flag on the moon. Although, China isn't really communist anymore. Hmmm, I'm having flashbacks to David Wingrove's futuristic China saga...
post #19 of 41
My daughter has a classmate (third grade) who claims that she went to the Moon. She doesn't have any pictures, though, because she forgot to take a camera.

Darn the bad luck.
post #20 of 41
Quote:
I can see the mission control computer programmers will have a great time debugging the software that makes the calculation!
Ack. I once had to use a program that required slugs, pounds, pounds-force, feet, and feet/sec as inputs. It was a total headache, especially since I was trying to model a launch from Mars.

SI is the only way to go.

Quote:
She doesn't have any pictures, though, because she forgot to take a camera.
I know just how she feels. I went to Pluto once and when I got back discovered that I didn't have any film in my camera. Bummer.
post #21 of 41
Thread Starter 
But now there are digital cameras.
post #22 of 41
Julie K said:

Quote:
Ack.

Hmmm. You must be a Bloom County fan. Or younger than I thought. Ack. Phhbbbt! :p)

I like how the article mentions other countries in Asia are monitoring China's progress closely. The US will rapidly fall behind (or have already fallen behind -- one space agency is planning to land on a comet, not a small feat by any stretch).

Does anybody consider the US the leader in space technology anymore? They won't if China makes it to the Moon...
post #23 of 41
Does anybody consider the US the leader in space technology anymore? They won't if China makes it to the Moon...

How many communication satelites do the Chinese put up?

Comrade Wong may make it to the moon but probably to commemorate the 100th anniversary of Americans landing on the moon.

Remember when the Russians were ahead of us in space in the early 60's? What did they actually lead in? We easily caught up with their manned excursions and got the moon first. Then we put up communications satelites and sent probes to the distant planets. Even today, if the Russians tried to get to the moon they would be beathen by the Chinese - again on the 100th anniversary of an American ...
post #24 of 41
Ashley, could you repeat that? I keep getting distracted by all the flag-waving...

Reminisce less, develop more. That's how you stay ahead in the space race
post #25 of 41
We can put up all the communication satellites that we like, but we still couldn't go back to the moon without a serious effort on the same order as the first time. We have gained expertise in some areas but in others we have lost some very important technology.

Max,
I guess I have to plead guilty on the Bloom County thing. I had all but forgotten it but I suppose Bill the Cat proves to be too enduring an icon to suppress completely.
post #26 of 41
I believe the Chinese have sent up a fair number of satellites. If not for themselves, then for the multinational corporations (communication satellites mostly).

Sending up a 200 pound satellite is nothing compared to a 10-20 ton lunar module!

And don't forget, the Russians are far ahead of us (us meaning the Western world (tm) ) in fighter jet technology. Particularly the amazing ejection seat of the Mig-29 (TLC had an amazing special on it). And the Mig-29 and Su-27 are still considered the best fighter jets in the world, despite the F-22 and other high-tech aircraft. Too bad they ran out of cash to apply some of these technologies to their space program.

Now, I will readily admit that our Western space probes are the best. But that's because we follow the KISS rule...keep it simple, stupid! The space shuttle, though, is another matter...why the hell does it have to be so complex? Sticking a piece of chewed-up gum on the shuttle's windshield would guarantee total disaster on re-entry for chrissakes!

Hmmm...Bill the Cat's mugshot would make a great moon-flag!
post #27 of 41
Here's an article on China's satellite launch abilities:

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/china-00zzi.html

Quote:
The country controls nine percent of the satellite launch market with 25 foreign-built satellites launched from there since 1980.

Of course, things could use improvement:

Quote:
The design and technical performance of China's satellites lag far behind western countries, Zhou Zhicheng, a researcher from the Chinese Academy of Space Technology, said in a report by the Xinhua news agency.

Compare China's 9 percent of the launch market with Canada's ZERO percent.
post #28 of 41
Thread Starter 
The space shuttle, though, is another matter...why the hell does it have to be so complex?


Because the vehicle that ended up getting built was the result of numerous compromises, intended to a) appease Congress and keep the costs down (thus, instead of building the completely reusable vehicle with the liquid-fueled, manned booster stage, we got a semi-reusable vehicle with strap-on SRBs and one-use-only External Tanks) and b) satisfy the USAF's requirements (the payload bay had to be wider than the Orbiter's original design specifications called far, to accommodate the Air Force's unmanned spy satellites; if the USAF didn't go along with the STS program, Congress was set to cancel it).

The vehicle NASA wanted is not the vehicle NASA ended up with. Also, remember, the only thing that even saved the STS program was a memorandum from Caspar Weinberger to Richard M. Nixon. Nixon, never enthusiastic about the manned space effort (it was a monument to John F. Kennedy, not him), was ready to scrap the manned effort altogether, and Congress was thus inclined.

This apathy/antipathy continues to this day, evidenced by the fact a successor to the STS has never been funded, designed, and built; evidenced by the fact that the X-33/X-34 program has been cancelled despite billions having been spent on it; evidenced by the fact that the Space Launch Initiative has pretty much been shelved (a successor program to the ill-fated X-33/X-34 VentureStar, it was to have culminated in a new-generation manned transport to replace the STS); as evidenced by the fact that even the scaled-back Orbital Space Plane may be cancelled by Congress, despite the fact the remaining three STS Orbiters are grounded and we are solely dependent on the Russian Soyuz-TMA spacecraft to get our astronauts to the ISS; as evidenced by the fact that in all the maudlin' eulogies uttered in remembrance of the heroic crew of STS-107 ("a strong space program is the best way to honor the memory of our fallen heroes"), the talk in Washington now centers around scaling NASA's manned effort still further, with some calling for grounding the remaining Orbiters for good and suspending the manned program indefinitely.

NASA hasn't lost its way. No, it's the powers that control NASA's funding who have lost their way.
post #29 of 41
How many chinese will starve to get a Peoples Army officer where we were 30+ years ago?
post #30 of 41
Ashley, could you repeat that? I keep getting distracted by all the flag-waving...

Exactly my point. You put people into space because of the propaganda value. Not for the scientific value.

If we sent to men/women into space for the next 25 years and spent that money on unmanned exploration and commercial uses, then we would gain some real scientific and ecconmical value. We could even design an economical space vehicle that in the short time after the 25 year haitus would be a start toward an efficacy of human rearch in space that is not being accomplished now.
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