Film Noir - LIST - Page 20

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Has anyone heard rumors about possible DVD releases of these 2 films?

INVISIBLE STRIPES (1939) George Raft / Humphrey Bogart / Jane Bryan
I WALK ALONE (1948) Burt Lancaster / Lisabeth Scott / Kirk Douglas

I've wanted these 2 for a long time but so far, no releases.

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Since WB has "Invisible Stripes" and it is Bogart, I'd imagine it's release will come within the next 2-3 years. (Yeah, I know, it seems like an eternity!)

As for "I Walk Alone", well, I believe its owned by Universal, who did release a bunch of noirs several years ago but hasn't made a peep since. I too long for for "IWA", having a fond memory of it. I do like BL noirs.

I hate (really hate) to say this, but perhaps once one of its stars passes, it will come to be. (Not that I wish it in the slightest. I'd rather he be honored while he is still extant.)

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Sorry if this has been asked before, but...

Has Universal abandoned it's "Universal Noir Collection"?

We got CRISS-CROSS, THIS GUN FOR HIRE, THE BIG CLOCK, and BLACK ANGEL then......nada.

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Good question. But as for Universal. it's anyone's guess what goes on behind the silent vaults of that studio. From a TV/DVD collector's experience, they are one of the more secretive studios but they sure have a lot of what we want Thanks for the reminder of those Uni noirs. I know them all but don't have them on DVD (yet). I need to spend more time on the HTF Film Bd as well as the TV/DVD Bd

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Warner Film Noir Collection Vol. 4 in July 2007:

disc 1: Act of Violence/ Mystery Street;
disc 2: Crime Wave/ Decoy;
disc 3: Illegal/ The Big Steal;
disc 4: They Live By Night/ Side Street;
disc 5: Where Danger Lives/ Tension.

*Source: http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=64624

PS
Let's hope THE BIG STEAL isn't colorised like the recent R-2UK release.

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From The Digital Bits' Rumor Mill, MGM will remember Edward G. Robinson in July with following titles: Kansas City Confidential (1952), The Stranger (1946), The Woman in the Window (1944), A Bullet for Joey (1950). The first 2 are available in poor PD editions, so hopefully MGM will rescue them (they already released The Stranger in other regions).

Also, Fox will release Seven Thieves the same day.

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Oops, he sure isn't, but he's in other 3. And also in Seven Thieves which is being released as part of Joan Collins Superstar Collection by Fox.

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Ministry of Fear is being released in Spain on April 25.

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The movie has already been realeased in Italy and will be released soon in France (publisher is Carlotta, who has already released some nice 2-DVD Special Editions: The Killers and Double indemnity).

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"A Bullet For Joey" is actually from 1955, not 1950.

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Great artwork!

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Question: Is Casablanca too "war romance tragedy" to be considered film noir?

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I think CASABLANCA is missing a femme fatale.

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It all depends on your definition of "film noir." In my definition, a femme fatale is certainly not a requirement. However, CASABLANCA doesn't reside in the noir section of my DVD collection. Yes, it's in black and white, and yes, it's got Bogie, but I consider it a romance first and foremost.

Oh, and DAMN. That box looks awesome.

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Yeah, and missing the shadows by venetian blinds...

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I think if you tried hard enough you could develop some support for Casablanca to fit on your personal Noir shelf - of course it depends on your own criteria as there are no defined rules.

Characterizations were definitely subverted from initial leanings - Bogie as an anti-hero (selfish mercenary "I don't stick my neck out for no one") and Bergman as a Femme Fatale - “an irresistibly attractive woman... especially one who leads men into danger or disaster” - Bogie shoots Major Strasser almost directly because of his love for Ilsa. Of course both character perceptions are dismissed eventually defining them both as noble.

Most Noirs aspire to the often shadowy cinematography of Casablanca - mostly in jazz-soaked Moroccan gin-joint (certainly a Noir atmosphere if ever there was one).

The film is filled with suspiciously illegal types - Signor Ferrari (Greenstreet), Ugarte (Peter Lorre), Captain Renault (Rains) is on the take and Rick's roulette wheel is fixed...

Flash-back (remembered) narratives? - yes, of course, the Rick/Ilsa Paris affair.

Ex-convict or recent ex-convict characters? - Well, wasn't Victor Laszlo in a Concentration Camp for a while?

Where it fails the test for me - Casablanca is just too classy. The production is pristine. Where is the simple pulp crime story? I see noirs as telling tales of the downtrodden, lower classes, or economically depressed. Noir is a fried-egg sandwich in a seedy late night diner... not top sirloin with champagne. My noir often has hokey ploys like amnesia and plastic sugery makeovers.

I'd love for it to be included, but I keep it on a different DVD shelf. Saying that the HD DVD of Casablanca is probably my most valued DVD (and I have 4500 of these shiny discs!)

Best,

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Great argument, Gary.
I've highligted the femme fatale argument because I think the dictionary.com definition you use is incomplete if one uses a broad definition of "leads." A "femme fatale" is more than an object of desire (like gold or gems), she actively motivates those who are sexually attracted to her, that is, she actively takes advantage of their susceptability to her charms. I think the reference.com definition is better: Ilse hardly qualifies as villanous.
Of course, I won't argue with anyone who maintains that a film noir MUST have a femme fatale. However, without the femme fatale, I maintain that an atmosphere of hopelessness, dispair, or forces beyond the control of the film's hero must be present to qualify a movie as film noir. CASABLANCA is full of hope.

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True enough Ira. I agree that she never evolves to the achieve the moniker 'femme fatale' but she certainly is perceived that way before we know the truth. She uses any hold she may have over Rick to get the letters of transit. When he staunches declines she pulls a gun on him. What we know of her before that (in the flashback) - Bogie must have felt he was played for a hapless male reading her note in the rain at the train station.

Of course this is the beauty of Casablanca - the unclear motives of the two lead characters are dispelled in the final scene. Bogie is not a selfish mercenary and Bergman not a coniving manipulator. It was all for love and the war effort.

Your other points about dispair are correct. But as it has Noir elements - just not the key ones - perhaps Casablanca could be considered an anti-noir? Who knows - fun to talk about anyway.

Best,
Gary

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I would agree that Casablanca has strong noir elements.

To me the strongest is the element of fate, Rick is doomed no matter what he does.

Also noir has elements of that of a bad dream that you don't wake up from and having Ilsa come into your life twice and leaving twice certainly fits that.

Ilsa is not a classic femme fatale but women can send men to ruin without having bad intent

One point that I strongly disagree with is that of class. I don't think that a film need to come across as a B film to be Noir, in fact many noir films rise significantly above their budgets. An example of that is Kiss Me Deadly.

Overall, I wouldn't cite Casablanca as noir, just that it has noir elements.

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In terms of character, plot and theme, Peckinpah's Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia strikes me as the very definition of film noir.

Was there ever a film noir more misunderstood.

Does anyone else agree that Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia is film noir?

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More neo-noir since it was made after the prime of the genre.

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I just love this remark:


Oh really! Tell us about it!

Wasn't it inconsiderate of Ilsa to run back to her husband without telling Rick before he went to meet her on the train. She had time to write him a letter, couldn't she have explained the matter then?

Actually, Casablanca works on a lot of levels for me, and it is certainly in the spirit of film noir even though the structure of noir isn't quite there.


Okay, neo-noir works for me. But the fundamental basis for a noir doesn't change when it's neo: the darkness of noir is a visual metaphor for the dark side of the lead character(s), his fatal flaw. Noirs are often about losers who risk everything on one last chance, and Benny, as played by Warren Oates in BMTHOAG, fits that description as well as Jeff Bailey in OUT OF THE PAST or any other memorable lead in a noir.

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Woooo... let's not get on Ilsa's case. It wasn't much of a 'letter' per-se but rather a short note. Time? well it was definitely a concern - the Nazi's were invading at that moment (see everyone fleeing at the train station?). She didn't 'run' back to her husband as much as he was released (or rather escaped - after what 2 years in a concentration camp - presumed dead? - is how I recall it.)

I forgive her.

Best,
Gary

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So do I, but Rick Blaine doesn't forgive her. That's why it's noir. If Casablanca were merely a romance, he'd forgive and forget and the movie wouldn't have much lasting impact. Too, if Ilsa had time to write a short note, she could have written one that wouldn't kick his guts out; again, that's why Casablanca is noir. It is always the noir that we respond to in this film. Like rich-d says, "a woman can send a man to ruin without having bad intent." That's noir, too.

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I think we're all in agreement that Ilsa is not classic femme fatale a la Sherry Peatty in The Killing or Stanwyck's character in Double Indemnity.

I also think we can agree that the gray areas can be fun too.

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Compare Ilsa in Casablanca to Evelyn in Chinatown. They're both guilty as hell, and they both send a man to ruin without having a malicious intent. Perhaps we should broaden our definition of a femme fatale. Perhaps our definition is too narrow if it fails to account for the character.

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Are we talking about the same Casablanca? or did you see some revised cut. (ala The Simpsons - Lisa and Bart use Grampa's mine detector to find treasure and they find an alternate ending to "Casablanca." )

Lisa: Wow! An alternate ending to "Casablanca." Bart, this could be priceless!
Bart: Priceless like a mother's love, or the good kind of priceless?

How is Rick ruined? He didn't lose Ilsa - he let her go. He walks off with his buddy Captain Renault totally escaping a murder rap. He's a survivor continueing on his path of freedom. It is a positive ending.

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Come on, Gary.
Of course it's a positive ending.
But you know there's more to Casablanca then the ending.
You know the story has an arc to it.
I refer to the story itself, before the ending.
Or would you prefer that Casablanca only be a minute long.

At the risk of upsetting you further, Gary, think how the tone of Casablanca would change, if that last line were deleted. I've never liked it. It's an example of over-writing. The ending would still be positive without it, but the tension would linger with us.

ps: I haven't watched the simpsons or any other contemporary television programming in twenty years or more, so your reference is lost on me.

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This I will agree with and it was my initial point. Casablanca is a film noir excepting for its conclusion, where we become aware of the characters true motivations. If Noir measn only style to you - then it has it in abundance.

But if you are selling Isla as Femme Fatle - I ain't buying. Not by my personal definiton anywho.

Best,
Gary

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But their motivations are constantly changing. Rick changes his mind more than once. The script writers are revising as the film is being shot. In the end they settle on something right, but let's be honest, there are some trouble spots along the way in this script.

Noir is more than visual aesthetics. As I pointed out in my post about Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia -- a modern masterwork of noir -- the dark lighting and wet streets etc. are a visual metaphor of the character's dark side. Another way to say the same thing, his emotional state, the fatal flaw in him or her that makes these bad things happen. The mental anguish and desperation of characters in a film noir generates that dark visual style, and Casablanca has this in abundance, too.


Or maybe you're just a sap for a seductive broad.

And I still maintain that last line of dialogue stinks worse than yesterday's leftover salmon. It is unnecessary and it should be cut. Cut from the elements, cut from the film, cut from the DVD, cut from the videotapes, cut from the broadcasts. Delete that last line and the ending would retain a suggestion of noir that would strengthen everything that comes before. Let there be a creeping darkness in even the most positive ending. Think about it.