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THE WONDER YEARS (Consolidated Thread; No New Ones, Please!) - Page 3

post #61 of 220
4/1/04 at 11:28am
Quote:
The Wonder Years was a period piece so popular music of the time made sense. WKRP took place in a radio station. Other than either reason, there is no reason why any other show needs to use popular music in a show. It wasn't done in the 50s, 60s, 70s or 80s. Now its all of a sudden necessary? Why? You do a show, you hire an arranger to write scores for the season's episodes. No rights issues after the fact. Sorry but these are problems that exist that didn't have to.


While programs certainly don't NEED to use pop music, it can certainly enhance the show. I've found that the popular music used in "ALIAS" in particular serves to strengthen the mood intended.

I don't think the WB tradition of featured music on their prime time programs serves anything but to market that music, but if music is well considerred as a mean to enhance a scene, I think it's wholly meritous.

To suggest that no show should use pop music is both unreasonable and unrealistic. At the very least, I'd be dissapointed at a world of TV programming where none of the characters ever even encounterred modern music. It sets them more firmly in our world, not in some musicless other.
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post #62 of 220
4/1/04 at 1:21pm
Exactly. Most of the music on Smallville or similar shows leaves me feeling nothing. I was continually moved by the music on Buffy however... this was probably due to the fact that the music was chosen to represent a mood, and not to push a song.

It's like Felicity. The music was replaced for season 1 in all except 2 episodes. Those episodes have music that worked amazingly in their respective scenes... and I can't imagine different songs there. The rest of the episodes were less emotional, and honestly worked just fine with the differences.
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post #63 of 220
4/20/04 at 6:40pm
The Wonder Years is indeed a tough topic.
After a few phone calls to Fox, I did get confirmation that a release of THE WONDER YEARS won't likely happen.
The music rights issue is the reason. In fact, the person I talked to also mentioned CHINA BEACH as another show that has the same problem.
The person didn't mention the difficulty in obtaining the music rights as much as Fox being able to recoup their expenses.
Maybe if the show was offered like the ones in the past at Columbia House and the show was sold 10 bucks for four episodes, it would work.
I guess it's difficult to understand if you love the show.

Another mystery is why ABC Family buys the show on a multi year basis, then chooses to shelf it.

Such a great show does not deserve such a terrible fate.
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post #64 of 220
4/20/04 at 7:15pm
Maybe if the rumors are tue and Miami Vice comes out this year then Fox will finally put Wonder Years on DVD.
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post #65 of 220
4/20/04 at 8:05pm
The release of Freaks and Geeks seems like an perfect opportunity to review the potential for the Wonder Years. It used a good number of popular songs, by well-known artists, and its audience, I must imagine, wasn't nearly as large as a Wonder Years demographic would be. Yet it's managed to see the light of day.

The bottom line is that I have to continue to believe that there is some price at which this show would be profitable, and it amazes me that labels can't do simple math. Current profits on the Wonder Years songs: $0. Anything would be better than what they're getting now.
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post #66 of 220
4/20/04 at 8:13pm
This is yet another show I can't wait to own on dvd. I have to admit I was anxious for Roswell to come out on dvd even knowing that the music was going to be altered. Now that I have it I sometimes think I would have paid a bit more for the series to be complete with the original music... it bugged me to see that colorblind was changed, that the song in the opening of the UFO convention was changed and so on.

The music is very important to some shows and I can understand why people get miffed about the dvds not being original, however, like someone else mentioned, at this point I would take the show (wonder years) with altered music just to have the show.
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post #67 of 220
4/20/04 at 11:45pm
But the problem with making statements like perhaps Miami Vice or Freaks and Geeks coming to DVD will cause them to revisit the Wonder years is that the people that hold the rights to the songs used in those shows are not always the same people, plus different shows/studios/releases have different budgets for what they can and can not afford to spend on clearing music, so just because one show clears its musical hurtles doesn't mean that another show even from the same studio is close behind.
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post #68 of 220
4/21/04 at 10:09am
I am another one who wants this because frankly my VHS tapes are in poor shape.
Hopefully the studios will obtain the rights and this will be out on DVD within the next year or so.
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post #69 of 220
4/21/04 at 5:33pm
Quote:
the person I talked to also mentioned CHINA BEACH as another show that has the same problem.

I was afraid of that. Not to steal this thread, but I would be glad to see the 2-hour pilot and the 2-hour final episode of this show. It would be a great bookend to a great series.

OK, now back to The Wonder Years discussion.
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post #70 of 220
4/21/04 at 8:06pm
Quote:
But the problem with making statements like perhaps Miami Vice or Freaks and Geeks coming to DVD will cause them to revisit the Wonder years is that the people that hold the rights to the songs used in those shows are not always the same people...


That's true as far as it goes... but my point was just that at the moment, no one is making anything off the Wonder Years. If I were a music label exec, I would be willing to accept a slightly lower price than I was demanding previously, because it would result in a revenue stream that otherwise wouldn't exist at all. The same math might also persuade the rights holders to up their own offers a bit. I was just expressing the hope that these other releases might spur a bit of introspection -- a long shot maybe, but you never know.
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post #71 of 220
4/21/04 at 8:34pm
GeoffBr, I think you're right that strong sales of Freaks & Geeks might give Fox a cause to give The Wonder Years a closer look. Both are similar style shows with lots of music to clear. I have a hunch that F&G sales are doing well, but I think it's going to pick up a lot of steam via word of mouth, just like Family Guy did.

I won't stop begging for The Wonder Years on DVD until it's in my player. Pure and simple!
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post #72 of 220
4/22/04 at 2:20am
You also might consider that, as a business, TV shows on DVD are still growing. Therefore, the holders of these rights may start assuming that they can try and get more and more money, that they are worth more, and deserve to be so compensated. The holders of the copyright (often times not the artists) are more concerned about drawing in money, and not getting listeners.
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post #73 of 220
4/22/04 at 5:47am
If I were a music label exec, I would be willing to accept a slightly lower price than I was demanding previously, because it would result in a revenue stream that otherwise wouldn't exist at all.


But the revenue stream does exist. The publisher for "When a Man Loves a Woman" for example(used in the first Wonder Years episode IIRC) *is* making money from its use on other properties and other mediums. Lowering the price just so it can be used on Wonder Years may devalue the song as a whole. The next time someone wants to license that song they can point at Wonder Years and say "you gave it to them for half of what you're charging me!"

As an analogy look at seating on airlines- planes take off everyday with empty seats. The airline is getting zero revenue from those empty seats and with the cost of the flight already paid for (fuel, salaries, etc) they could recoup some of the cost by selling those seats at a big discount. After all, if someone paid just $5 for that seat that's five more dollars in revenue than they get with the seat empty with no additional costs. Why don't they do this? It would devalue the cost of airline tickets as a whole.
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post #74 of 220
4/22/04 at 5:49am
Quote:
The latter is how, for example, Michael Jackson came to own the entire Beatles catalog

He doesn't. Nor did he ever.
http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/jackson.htm
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post #75 of 220
4/22/04 at 7:36am
Quote:
Lowering the price just so it can be used on Wonder Years may devalue the song as a whole.


Not to beat a dead horse here, but I'm not sure this is that big an issue. I can't imagine that there's a generic "license fee" for these songs - I suspect that they're stratified based on intended use and type of license, since each one probably has a different value to the licensee. Replaying a song in a tv movie is probably less expensive than using it in a series (less airings, no syndication, etc) and so on. So presumably such factors could be negotiating leverage if anyone tried to get in at a new "low" rate.
Quote:
As an analogy look at seating on airlines- planes take off everyday with empty seats. Why don't they [sell these off more cheaply]? It would devalue the cost of airline tickets as a whole.


Actually, they do sell these at a discount to fill up seats. It's the business model sites like Priceline and Hotwire are based on. Given the nature of traveling, it's not especially conducive to 30-minute before the flight fire sales, but the idea is the same. (Not to mention the fact that I would hate to base my corporate planning on the airline model -- they're in pretty sorry shape.)
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post #76 of 220
4/22/04 at 8:59am
Not to beat a dead horse here, but I'm not sure this is that big an issue. I can't imagine that there's a generic "license fee" for these songs - I suspect that they're stratified based on intended use and type of license, since each one probably has a different value to the licensee. Replaying a song in a tv movie is probably less expensive than using it in a series (less airings, no syndication, etc) and so on. So presumably such factors could be negotiating leverage if anyone tried to get in at a new "low" rate.


But if someone is negotiating for it to be used in a different series then the comparison would still apply. The point is that arguments that refusing to sell the song for what the studio is offering results in a loss for everybody gives the music publisher no negotiating power. If that were the case then every movie or tv studio can lowball the offer trusting that the publisher will take any monetary offer. Negotiations don't work unless both parties believe the other is willing to walk away from the table.

Actually, they do sell these at a discount to fill up seats. It's the business model sites like Priceline and Hotwire are based on. Given the nature of traveling, it's not especially conducive to 30-minute before the flight fire sales, but the idea is the same. (Not to mention the fact that I would hate to base my corporate planning on the airline model -- they're in pretty sorry shape.)


Well, I didn't want to get into the analogy that deeply but yes they do sell them at a discount but there is still going to be a minimum accepted price. Like I said, someone paying five dollars to travel is five more dollars in their coffers than they would get with an empty seat and planes leave with empty seats all of the time.
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post #77 of 220
4/22/04 at 3:49pm
Most people probably aren't aware, but at the dawn of DVD two discs of Wonder Years episodes were released. I have them both but haven't looked at them since I got them, back in 1997 I believe. One is a collection of Christmas episodes. One disc also has the pilot. The quality was very bad, but reading this thread has me thinking I'm going to pull both of the DVDs out and watch them again. I've been waiting a long time for the complete series to be released, but looks like I'm going to be waiting a lot longer.
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post #78 of 220
4/23/04 at 1:54pm
I have one of the DVDs you mention. The music is completely different--even the theme song.
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post #79 of 220
7/11/04 at 8:19pm
Man, I really miss The Wonder Years nowadays...especially since it is no longer played on ABC Family. I was excited when it was on that Fox TV on DVD poll, as it had a good rating, but I guess the music issues put a dent in whatever plans Fox might of had for the show. And speaking of good ratings, The Wonder Years currently has an unreleased ranking of "15th" on tvshowsondvd.com, so there is clearly a big DVD audience for the show, don't you think?

I'd prefer that if it was released, the original music remain intact, and if it was, I'd be willing to pay good money for it. If some of the music was altered to cut costs, I'd also buy it. Either way, this is one of my favorite shows ever, and I want season sets released on DVD.

Could Shout! Factory release the show? They did an amazing job with Freaks and Geeks! I also seem to remember reading in a semi-recent "tv-dvd" article that someone from Shout! said something along the lines of "Clearing music for TV shows is what we do best!". I think the shows being mentioned were WKRP and That '70s Show, but The Wonder Years also falls into the same category.

Also, at the top of this particular HTF page, there is an "ad by google" with the title of "The Wonder Years DVD Set". If you click the link, these people are selling the entire series on DVD for $100. Isn't this illegal?!? Can't these people get busted by Fox, or whomever owns the rights?
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post #80 of 220
7/11/04 at 8:33pm
Yes, it's totally illegal to be selling DVDs of The Wonder Years.

Gord
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post #81 of 220
7/12/04 at 7:58pm
Yes, it's totally illegal to be selling DVDs of The Wonder Years.


I figured as much. Selling this stuff on eBay is one thing, (still illegal) but advertising these bootlegs on Google? They're just asking for it...
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post #82 of 220
7/13/04 at 2:23pm
OT: Just got Tour of Duty Season 1, and ALL the music is different, the theme song used to be "Paint it Black" now it's the same as the closing credits theme. I feel cheated.
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post #83 of 220
7/17/04 at 2:29pm
any news about "The Wonder Years" DVD.... anything????
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post #84 of 220
7/17/04 at 3:22pm
As far as I know, it's still stuck in "music rights limbo"
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post #85 of 220
7/18/04 at 4:13am
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post #86 of 220
8/4/04 at 4:23pm
The problem with the Wonder Years is that this show used so much music that it will cost a good amount of money to license all of the music.
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post #87 of 220
8/16/04 at 9:40pm

The Wonder Years

Okay, okay. I know that this forum has discussed this topic at great length in the past and I would have brought this up again on the previous similar topics. But I'm too lazy to look back through 20 pages of topics.

As you all know, American Dreams will be released with the original music intact. Happy Days has all the original music intact, at least that's what I understand. So, what is the deal with the Wonder Years? If it is still about music, explain to me then why so many other television shows have survived the long haul to DVD conquering the music rights issue where so many others have failed?

Come on, people. If we really want this tv show preserved forever on DVD we can turn the tide with our demand!

Let's make this a possibility. Strive with me!
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post #88 of 220
8/17/04 at 4:49am
That's why there's a search engine.
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post #89 of 220
8/17/04 at 5:22am
There's a difference betwen a new show that contains a lot of music, and an old show. With a new show they can license the music for broadcast and home video, but with an old show they have to go back and negotiate for home video rights. I understand that American Dreams contains old songs, but they aren't sung by the original artists. This also changes the licensing for the song.

Gord
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post #90 of 220
8/17/04 at 8:43am
Then how do you explain Happy Days, Gord?
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