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It's official -- Peter Jackson's next film: King Kong - Page 13  

post #361 of 814
10/14/05 at 1:15pm
Insane news/rumor over at www.soundtrack.net:

Howard Shore's score is being replaced?!?!!

James Newton Howard taking over, it says. Someone please tell me this is a fucking joke. Howard Shore won three Oscars for his LOTR scores.

A fucking joke. Please.

--Jefferson Morris
post #362 of 814
10/14/05 at 1:20pm
If anyone is to replace Howard Shore, I'm glad it's James Newton Howard but I definitely hope this is false. That would definitely put a dent in the friendship of Peter Jackson and Shore. The only way I could see this happening is that Jackson HIMSELF rejected the score. There's no way the studio would have the influence to do that to this project.
post #363 of 814
10/14/05 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Someone please tell me this is a fucking joke. Howard Shore won three Oscars for his LOTR scores.
Maybe what Shore composed sounds too similar to LOTR, and Jackson didn't like that.
post #364 of 814
10/14/05 at 1:28pm
Quote:
The only way I could see this happening is that Jackson HIMSELF rejected the score. There's no way the studio would have the influence to do that to this project.
That's what disturbs me about this rumor. I also can't imagine anyone other than PJ making this decision. He has obsessed over this project for decades - maybe he had a very particular idea about the music that wasn't coming across. But it's hard to imagine it getting to this point.

At any rate, the idea that a last-minute quickie score from anyone, even a talented composer like JNH, could best a Shore score...We'll see. Then again, I guess scores have been written faster.

Still hoping it's false.

--Jefferson Morris
post #365 of 814
10/14/05 at 1:43pm
Especially when we've had a Post-Production Diary in the last couple of weeks about the recording of the score. If Jackson was uncomfortable with the score, surely he would not have drawn as much attention to it.
post #366 of 814
10/14/05 at 1:45pm
In other news, it looks like they're completely redoing the look of Kong with two months to go until release. Compare (credit to aintitcool.com):


On one hand, I like the "new" Kong considerably more than the old one. He looks more like a beast and less like an oversized modern ape. On the other hand this, coupled with the score news, leads me to believe the production is currently experiencing a certain amount of turmoil.
post #367 of 814
10/14/05 at 1:46pm
Knowing who that rumor is coming from guys...it is probably true. I just heard about this today as well. Trying to find out more...
post #368 of 814
10/14/05 at 2:22pm
Incidentally, I like Kong's aged new look. I didn't much mind the tooth, but I also don't much mind if it's gone. In truth, an animal that broke its jaw in the wild most likely would not survive, so that bit of Kong's implied backstory may not have made much sense anyway.

Re: Turmoil...Maybe, but they changed a lot of things on LOTR at the last minute too. And PJ made them change Gollum's design in mid-saga. I wouldn't call such late changes a sign of turmoil or poor preparation so much as a sign that Jackson and Co. constantly are seeking ways to make things better, even late in the game (and even if it makes people tear their hair out). Replacing Shore, if indeed that's what has happened, could be another example.

Of course, Shore himself might have pulled out for personal reasons.

--Jefferson Morris
post #369 of 814
10/14/05 at 3:19pm
New Kong looks exceptionally pissed. Perhaps he was hoping to be stomping around to Shore's score and someone told him the news.

If anything Newtom Howard is an exceptional composer in his own right, but I'll still miss what could have been from Shore. Hopefully we'll see a leak/release of the score ala Yared's rejected Troy compositions.
post #370 of 814
10/14/05 at 3:41pm
Quote:
CONFIRMED: JAMES NEWTON HOWARD TO SCORE 'KING KONG'

10/14/05, 6:25 pm EST - Xoanon

UNIVERSAL CITY, Calif., Oct. 14 /PRNewswire/ -- Universal Pictures confirmed today that James Newton Howard will compose the original score for the dramatic adventure "King Kong," which is directed by triple Academy Award(R) winner Peter Jackson. Mr. Howard replaces Howard Shore, who is leaving the project.

Peter Jackson made the following statement: "I have greatly enjoyed my collaborations with Howard Shore, whose musical themes made immeasurable contributions to 'The Lord of the Rings' trilogy. During the last few weeks, Howard and I came to realize that we had differing creative aspirations for the score of 'King Kong.' Rather than waste time arguing with a friend and trying to unify our points of view, we decided amicably to let another composer score the film. I'm looking forward to working with James Newton Howard, a composer whose work I've long admired, and I thank Howard Shore, whose talent is surpassed only by his graciousness."

"King Kong" will be released December 14, 2005.
post #371 of 814
10/14/05 at 3:42pm
Jackson has officially issued a statement

Here it is from Dark Horizons:

"I have greatly enjoyed my collaborations with Howard Shore, whose musical themes made immeasurable contributions to 'The Lord of the Rings' trilogy. During the last few weeks, Howard and I came to realize that we had differing creative aspirations for the score of 'King Kong.'

Rather than waste time arguing with a friend and trying to unify our points of view, we decided amicably to let another composer score the film. I'm looking forward to working with James Newton Howard, a composer whose work I've long admired, and I thank Howard Shore, whose talent is surpassed only by his graciousness."
-- Peter Jackson

The good news is that Newton Howard is a grand choice for the project. He is dependable and capabable as mentioned. His score for The Village rarely if ever leaves my listening rotation so I hope to get the same type of quality for King Kong despite the constrained schedule.
post #372 of 814
10/14/05 at 4:21pm
wow. So whoever buys that 2-disc making of DVD will probably get the nice little documentary about how good a job Howard Shore is doing on the score, and then he ends up not scoring it.

This is sort of..wow. Time is getting short. I hope Howard is quick.
post #373 of 814
10/14/05 at 4:35pm
I definitely hope that Howard Shore's score DOES get released in some form or another. Maybe a feature for the "King Kong: Extended Edition" DVD?
post #374 of 814
10/14/05 at 5:02pm
I doubt a full score exists if Jackson and Shore came to this "realization" during various scoring sessions rather than after Shore submitted his full score. If it's like LOTR, Jackson is just as much involved in the scoring from the start as he is with the filming.

I would like to know why Shore thought he would be allowed to take the score in a different direction than that desired by the director, however. When did he think HE was promoted to "Director"?
post #375 of 814
10/14/05 at 6:05pm
Sigh. Sad news. As did everyone else, I really do love the work he did on LOTR, and quite liked the little we heard on the Post-Production Diary.

I just hope James Newton-Howard has enough time to give this film the type of score it needs and deserves.

I do like the look of the new Kong, though. As Adam said, he looks much more like a beast now, a real monster. But you can still see signs of softness, of tenderness, which is what we need in Kong.
post #376 of 814
10/14/05 at 7:29pm
Quote:
I would like to know why Shore thought he would be allowed to take the score in a different direction than that desired by the director, however.
I think you're making composing sound a lot easier than it really is. Sometimes composers can't grasp what a director wants, and they agree to part ways as a result.
post #377 of 814
10/14/05 at 11:46pm
Quote:
I doubt a full score exists if Jackson and Shore came to this "realization" during various scoring sessions rather than after Shore submitted his full score.

Actually, the article at soundtrack.net made it sound like the FINISHED score was rejected. Meaning the whole thing WAS done, and then tossed. It could be a case of Jackson liking some of the parts in a vaccuum, but upon hearing it as a whole, decided it didn't fit.

And Shore probably wanted to take the score somewhere that he thought would fit the drama best, since that's what he's there for. The way Jackson worded it, it sounds more like Shore and Jackson were just not working on the same page is all. They were trying for the same thing but reaching different results. I don't think it was a "control struggle" or whatever. Just a basic misunderstanding of the desired goal.
post #378 of 814
10/15/05 at 2:39am
It's disturbing news. If Jackson wanted change, Shore could have done it the way he wants. It's not like he doesn't know composing!
post #379 of 814
10/15/05 at 6:43am
Quote:
If Jackson wanted change, Shore could have done it the way he wants. It's not like he doesn't know composing!
Once again, I think composing is being oversimplified here. Each composer has their signature touch, and Shore's wasn't right for King Kong. It's much easier to drop one computer and go to another than to say to the original guy, "Do it again." It's like asking John Williams to redo Superman or Hans Zimmer to redo The Thin Red Line. I highly doubt you'd notice a big difference. Maybe I'm underestimating composers here, but I don't think so.
post #380 of 814
10/15/05 at 8:25am
Well, best of luck to JNH. I hope he produces a classic. And I also hope (against hope) that this really hasn't soured the relationship between Jackson and Shore. The LOTR scores are among the very best ever composed. T'would be a shame to see that partnership end.

Ironic that Shore himself was brought in to replace Elmer Bernstein on Gangs of New York. Happens to the best of 'em, I guess. As pointed out above, music is not an exact science, and sometimes the sensibilities of a composer, however brilliant he may be, don't mesh with that of the director.

--Jefferson Morris

P.S. So...I wonder how much detail they'll go into about this particular creative change in the supplements for the special edition DVD.
post #381 of 814
10/15/05 at 10:15am
Trouble in the land of Kong?

Redoing the SFX for King Kong and redoing the score with a couple of months to go? It seems like trouble is abound and hopefully the film itself isn't in this trouble.
post #382 of 814
10/15/05 at 11:13am
I didn't hear that they are redoing the SFX.
post #383 of 814
10/15/05 at 12:51pm
Redoing the visual effects?

No. Changing the lock of Kong's face or the amount of hair he has doesn't mean anything really. They did it with Gollum, they are doing it with Kong.

Sounds like there was a big arguement between PJ and Howard, I hope the press release is true and they did in fact break things off on friendly terms...but you never really know. Things can get heated in crunch time.
post #384 of 814
10/15/05 at 1:16pm
Quote:
No. Changing the lock of Kong's face or the amount of hair he has doesn't mean anything really. They did it with Gollum, they are doing it with Kong.
And for Gollum, the model in TTT/ROTK was completely different from the one in FOTR. That would seem like "redoing" to me. I don't think Joe's post implied ALL of the effects were being redone; just the stuff involving the big ape himself.
post #385 of 814
10/15/05 at 1:42pm
Yeah, and they only changed the model, it's not as if Kong will have to be completely reanimated or anything, it's largly just a matter of re-rendering the necissary Kong scenes.
post #386 of 814
10/15/05 at 2:31pm
I'm really looking forward to this movie, so hopefully they are just doing some tweaking that improves the film.

I just get the feeling that it may be better for the film if they don't rush it just to get it out by Christmas.
post #387 of 814
10/15/05 at 3:20pm
n/m
post #388 of 814
10/15/05 at 3:26pm
The re-working of Kong's face doesn't surprise me. Back when the trailer was released, there was an article about it on the front page of the Wellington newspaper, and they actually quoted PJ as saying that they hadn't finalised Kong's design yet, and he would look different to how he appears in the trailer.

I too hope that the press release is true on the literal wording, and Shore and PJ are still on friendly terms. But something about the way it was worded felt very much like he was being diplomatic over a real huge chairs-thrown-across-rooms argument. I hope I'm wrong.

But has anyone gone back over and re-watched the "13 weeks to go" Post-Production Diary? Howard Shore usually seems pretty comfortable in the thing, but there is one moment where we see him with Jackson (it's the part where PJ is talking about how excited he is that they are using all the instruments from different cultures) and Shore looks really really uncomfortable. Interesting to watch with hindsight.
post #389 of 814
10/15/05 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Once again, I think composing is being oversimplified here.

Way oversimplified

Here's my analogy. Shore couldn't just up and "compose something different" just because he's a composer, no more than Jackson Pollock could up and paint a Dali just because he's a painter. Writing music often isn't simply a case of "do as you're told." Same way that acting isn't.
post #390 of 814
10/15/05 at 5:56pm
Quote:
But has anyone gone back over and re-watched the "13 weeks to go" Post-Production Diary?
I just took a look at it. It seems to be a pretty candid little clip, and in it I see a very elaborate, well-planned scoring session where everything is going smoothly. Cues are being laid down, standard revisions are going on, the director is present, and he and the composer seem to be working with professional ease. Jackson is his normal low-key self, and I don't see any tension between him and Shore at all. The very brief snippets of music heard seem to be patterned somewhat after the style of Max Steiner's score for the original film (Shore can emulate that "old Hollywood" sound very well, as evidenced by 'The Aviator' last year).

When I read the press release, I was startled to say the least, but accepted that it was probably an honest appraisal of the situation. After seeing the clip, though, I am more convinced somebody at the studio freaked out, orders came down from on high for a more "contemporary"-sounding orchestral score, and Jackson's statement was made to a) protect Shore's reputation, and b) start the rumor-control. This is not the first time Universal has done something like this of late.
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