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Ringu impressions

post #1 of 84
2/28/03 at 6:33am
Thread Starter 
My Canadian copy of Ringu has just turned up.

The box is not bilingual, and there is no insert in the box.

The print is WAY better than my UK Tartan version, and the sound,
remixed in 5.1 is a huge improvement on the previous release.

Should scare the piss out of anybody who has a good imagination!

Enjoy!

Rich
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post #2 of 84
2/28/03 at 6:40am
Cant wait to get this Tues!
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post #3 of 84
2/28/03 at 7:54am
RING! The movie is called THE RING! NOT RINGU

Freaking Dreamworks
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post #4 of 84
2/28/03 at 8:23am
Jeff I assume you are talking about the Japanese version? That's simply 'Ring' (Without the 'The')
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post #5 of 84
2/28/03 at 8:44am
but the box says "Ringu"... those Dreamworks idiots! aaaaargh! just because some Japanese pronounced "Ring" as "Ringu" they think they can get away with it.

I guess the Asian market should rename North American titles based on how it's pronounced using their own language then.

For example, the Region 3 release for "Titanic" should be retitled to "Taytanik", or "Temple of Doom" to "Tempel of Dum".

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post #6 of 84
2/28/03 at 8:47am
David:

In Japanese, the title is written in katakana, the phonetic alphabet for non Japanese originating words

So while it is written "Ringu" it is INTENDED as "Ring"
Lum is written "Lumu" but it's Lum

And any translator would have told them that
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post #7 of 84
2/28/03 at 10:31am
Oh well, I guess we can't call Karaoke 'Karaoke' anymore but 'Kara-Orch' (sarcasm)

Seriously though, the Japanese are perfectly capable of having an English alphabet title and do so quite often if they choose (Battle Royale) and that is officially listed that way instead of 'Bataru Royaru' which is how it would come out in Katakana. in this case the official title was spelled out in Katakana 'Ringu' and is spelt that way (usually with the Hepburn romanization) in film registries. That is the Filmmaker's intention.

I'm sure those poor feeble minds at Dreamworks are kicking themselves right now because they had absolutely no idea that 'Ringu' actually was 'Ring' instead of a huge coincidence....SHOKU! (sarcasm again)

Also, it makes it much faster to distinguish between remake and original. I see no problem with calling it 'Ringu'
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post #8 of 84
2/28/03 at 11:41am
They should have called their film something else. How about "The Unnecssary Remake of Ring" Just because some Wal-Mart hick is too stupid to look at the package and buy the "right" one doesn't mean that they should put the wrong title on a film
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post #9 of 84
2/28/03 at 12:05pm
Quote:
They should have called their film something else. How about "The Unnecssary Remake of Ring" Just because some Wal-Mart hick is too stupid to look at the package and buy the "right" one doesn't mean that they should put the wrong title on a film

You make it sound like they changed the title. Ringu is, in fact, how it is written in Japanese. Just because you refuse to acknowledge the fact that the remake exists doesn't mean that others shouldn't.

According to the following link, the cover gives the original due credit by displaying "The original movie that inspired The Ring".

http://www.dvdplanet.com/product_lis...521&format=DVD

Personally, I think Dreamworks should be commended for releasing it. I remember Ring(u) conspiracy theorists previously stated that Dreamworks, although holding the rights for the region 1 release, never had any intention of releasing it and were hiding it from American eyes which, in retrospect, is quite laughable.

Thanks again, Dreamworks. I'll be picking up both.
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post #10 of 84
2/28/03 at 12:14pm
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Personally, I think Dreamworks should be commended for releasing it. I remember Ring(u) conspiracy theorists previously stated that Dreamworks, although holding the rights for the region 1 release, never had any intention of releasing it and were hiding it from American eyes which, in retrospect, is quite laughab


Well, I asked the question would they release it - it was a possibility that they wouldn't. Many international films which 'inspired' American remakes haven't had a US Home video release. And it's not laughable, just business - i wonder if we would be seeing a release of the Japanese Ring if the US version had bombed at the box office.
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post #11 of 84
2/28/03 at 12:15pm
Dwayne:

Couldn't have said it better myself.
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post #12 of 84
2/28/03 at 12:33pm
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Many international films which 'inspired' American remakes haven't had a US Home video release. And it's not laughable, just business

It is laughable, given the reasons they were proclaiming. As you stated, a business motive is more reasonable.

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i wonder if we would be seeing a release of the Japanese Ring if the US version had bombed at the box office.

That's a good question. I think the probability would be greater for it compared to films from other countries. Films that have originated from Japan have enjoyed considerable success here in the states. Of course, most of them would be Anime.
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post #13 of 84
2/28/03 at 12:33pm
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You make it sound like they changed the title. Ringu is, in fact, how it is written in Japanese.


That doesn't make it a proper translation. Phonetic "translation" of katakana into English aren't proper translations, as the phonetic pronunciations are usually meaningless words ("ringu" being a good example). Like any other translation, the translated words should be what the words mean. Otherwise, translations aren't particualrly understandable to readers. In this case, it's rather easy to figure out the word, since only one is involved. However, translating longer groups of words in this way could result in absurd and non-understanble translations. Katakana is in fact designed to be used to write out non-Japanese words to begin with, so the only reasonable translation of katakana is to use/translate the original non-Japanese word before it was adapted into katakana in the first place.

By using "Ringu," Dreamworks isn't giving us the title as actually understood by Japanese speakers/readers. Instead, they've given us a bad "translation" from Japanese katakana of word that was in English to begin with; it's a phonetic pronunciation of something that was already translated (kind of like some error-filled Babelfish translation to one language and back again) instead of just the word itself.

DJ
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post #14 of 84
2/28/03 at 12:41pm
Thank you for the explanation, Damin.

How is it displayed on Japanese media?
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post #15 of 84
2/28/03 at 12:57pm
Quote:
How is it displayed on Japanese media?


In katakana characters, of which there are 46. Each represents a phonetic sound. You can see a chart of what they look like here or here. Since katakana contains no perfect symbol for the G sound at the end of "ring," one of the other G sounds in katakana had to be used (ga, ge, gu, ge, go). The system obviously isn't perfect, as it's just designed to make non-Japanese words pronounceable to Japanese readers. As you can see on this chart, pronouncing katakana versions of English words doesn't make much sense for English readers. Would you otherwise know what an "intanetuto" or an "uebusaito" is?

DJ
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post #16 of 84
2/28/03 at 1:06pm
Thanks for the links. It does seem inefficient, but I understand it's purpose.

Dreamworks is not the first one to identify the film as "Ringu". Google the word ringu and you will see that the word has been used by many. That doesn't justify it's use, but I haven't heard any arguments until now, the eve on which Dreamworks is actually going to deliver this film into our grubby hands.
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post #17 of 84
2/28/03 at 1:10pm
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That doesn't justify it's use, but I haven't heard any arguments until now, the eve on which Dreamworks is actually going to deliver this film into our grubby hands.


You haven't been paying enough attention! Jeff has been on about this for months.

It's worth noting that in English-speaking regions where it has already been released on DVD (e.g., the UK), the Japanese film has simply been titled Ring.

DJ
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post #18 of 84
2/28/03 at 1:13pm
By using "Ringu," Dreamworks isn't giving us the title as actually understood by Japanese speakers/readers. Instead, they've given us a bad "translation" from Japanese katakana


Actually they're giving us the EXACT romanization. It's not supposed to be a translation, but the exact word as said by every person in japan that goes up to the box office and asks for a ticket for RINGU "..o kudasai" because that's the name of the film.

There are three characters used: 'RI' 'N' (the only consonant not followed by a vowel in the alphabet) and 'GU'

Frankly, the way the Japanese adapt loanwords from other languages, it really means that it's now a (slighly unorthodox) Japanese word. Just like English is mostly made up of Loan Word from French, German, Et Al.

I can't believe people are complaining that Dreamworks is giving us the exact Japanese title as spelt by the filmmakers and original novelist converted directly into 'romanji' (roman alphabet)

I mean, if that's not acceptable then (as I stated above) we must call Karaoke 'KaraOrch" because 'oke' is a shortened form of the loanword 'Orchestra' (full title is 'Empty Orchestra')

*rolls eyes*
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post #19 of 84
2/28/03 at 1:32pm
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Actually they're giving us the EXACT romanization.


And such romanizations are often nonsense words to speakers of the original language from which the word was adapted to katakana in the first place. If Dreamworks was really that interested in providing us the original title as used by the filmmakers, novelist, and Japanese public, they'd have the title in katakana characters on the cover with a pronunciation or translation underneath. Instead, they've just provided a word that is nonsense on its own.

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It's not supposed to be a translation, but the exact word as said by every person in japan that goes up to the box office and asks for a ticket for RINGU "..o kudasai" because that's the name of the film.

And the rest of the English-speaking world outside of North America has gone to the video store and asked for Ring because that's the name of the film.

If you're going to bother romanizing the word, you may as well take the extra step to have the word actually make sense to readers.

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I mean, if that's not acceptable then (as I stated above) we must call Karaoke 'KaraOrch" because 'oke' is a shortened form of the loanword 'Orchestra' (full title is 'Empty Orchestra')

"Empty orchestra" is a phrase that does not evoke the meaning intended by the Japanese term. It makes perfect sense to me to romanize such otherwise untranslatable euphemisms. Further, saying "karaorch" would be nonsense, as well, since it would be translating half a word and leaving the other half untranslated. Are you saying that "ring" is similar to either of these situations?

DJ
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post #20 of 84
2/28/03 at 1:59pm
"Empty orchestra" is a phrase that does not evoke the meaning intended by the Japanese term. It makes perfect sense to me to romanize such untranslatable euphemisms. Further, saying "karaorch" would be nonsense, as well, since it would be translating half a word and leaving the other half untranslated. Are you saying that "ring" is similar to either of these situations?


I think we're talking about two seperate things here, you seem to be steamed that Dreamworks has not LOCALIZED the title, I'm perfectly satisified that it's a perfect TRANSLITERATION. Hence why I'm not up in arms that my Domestic R1 release of Amores Perros isn't called Love's a Bitch

What I'm saying is that just because a Japanese word had origins from another language (and believe me, when I was there, a significant amount of japanese speech contained such loanwords) doesn't mean that you're OBLIGATED to go back to the original source spelling. Just consider that the film's title was released here UNTRANSLATED but ROMANIZED for computer database purposes...how many clerks at Best Buy are going to bother to learn IME to look up one dvd title on their system?

Having a 'u' on the end of the title is not going to send anybody who would have been interested in picking it up, screaming out the door of the store, especially if it's further clarified that this is the inspiration for Verbinski's version.

If one is going to attack foreign film titles, why wasn't there a fuss about a certain film not being released with the title The Fabulous Destiny of Amelie Poulain? I consider that much more of a breach of intent.
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post #21 of 84
2/28/03 at 2:52pm
Hmm, unless you take Japanese, you don't know Japanese.

If you were to ask a true Japanese (not in America) about the movie, "Ring," saying in English "Ring," they'll look at you really perplexed and confused. However, if you pronounce it like the Japanese do, and enunciate in the katakana as it was written as "RI N GU" then they'll respond. It's very, very, very important to pronounce every syllable in the Japanese importation of American words, otherwise you'll just get blank stares.

It's like what my Japanese Professor, who's caucasian, btw, told us a story about his friend who was in Japan, and his car need a white paint job. He kept screaming at the clerk/painter "White Paint! White Paint!". The Japanese just stared at him in complete perplexion. He gave up and ask my professor to talk to the guy, and my professor said "waito peinto" (white paint) and the Japanese responded with comprehension. The other guy was furious that a little "o" in both words is keeping the guy from understanding him. My professor said that it's really important that adopted words be spoken like the Japanese do, otherwise they won't understand it.

Hence, my saying, if the Japanese pronounce their movie as "RINGU" (hard "g" sound) then it should be "RINGU" although it should have a subtitle of "Ring" under it. Yeah, it's redundant, but that's how you can please both sides of the fence.
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post #22 of 84
2/28/03 at 3:55pm
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You haven't been paying enough attention! Jeff has been on about this for months.

That's odd considering how much I pride myself on keeping up with current rants.

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If you were to ask a true Japanese (not in America) about the movie, "Ring," saying in English "Ring," they'll look at you really perplexed and confused. However, if you pronounce it like the Japanese do, and enunciate in the katakana as it was written as "RI N GU" then they'll respond.


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By using "Ringu," Dreamworks isn't giving us the title as actually understood by Japanese speakers/readers.

Ok, now I'm confused.

Aside from that, we all can agree that we're fortunate to get an R1 release, right?
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post #23 of 84
2/28/03 at 4:03pm
In short: The Japanese say "Ringu" the INTENDED WORD IS "RING"

Therefore it should be "Ring"
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post #24 of 84
2/28/03 at 4:34pm
to re-iterate what jeff said.

so a movie titled "ring" is pronounced in english "ring"
in japanese "ringoo" or ringu.

so if it was just called, ring, then english and japanese would call it by it's intended and proper title.


so it should just have been called "ring"

this is they way i interpret what folks are trying to get accross on this.
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post #25 of 84
2/28/03 at 4:49pm
I guess if DVD covers actually spoke the name of their title, then all of this would be moot. If they originally named the film circle, would we be having the same discussion?
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post #26 of 84
2/28/03 at 7:43pm
Can we get back to the quality of the actual DVD yet please? This whole thread is becoming redundant.
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post #27 of 84
2/28/03 at 10:25pm
I think Jeff's anger at the title is just a mask for his anger at the remake being made at all. I think this is all overblown. I agree the remake is unnecessary, but because of this a lot of people will discover the original. If it never existed only people who are already into Asian cinema like Jeff would have seen it.
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post #28 of 84
2/28/03 at 11:21pm
If they called it Ring, there probably would have been considerable consumer confusion with The Ring. This is a reasonable solution.
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post #29 of 84
3/1/03 at 12:37am
Quote:
I think we're talking about two seperate things here, you seem to be steamed that Dreamworks has not LOCALIZED the title, I'm perfectly satisified that it's a perfect TRANSLITERATION. Hence why I'm not up in arms that my Domestic R1 release of Amores Perros isn't called Love's a Bitch


But Amores Perros is the original title in its original language; it's not a transliteration whatsoever. "Ringu" is not the original title in its original language; it's a romanization of a katakana form of an English word, or a transliteration of a transliteration. To present the original title in its original language, like Amores Perros is, they would have to present the katakana word. I'd be satisfied with both the katakana word and the translated "Ring."

Interestingly, the cover of the Japanese DVD of the original film has the title as "The Ring" in English.

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What I'm saying is that just because a Japanese word had origins from another language (and believe me, when I was there, a significant amount of japanese speech contained such loanwords) doesn't mean that you're OBLIGATED to go back to the original source spelling.

They may not be obligated, as I'm sure no police force will raid the Dreamworks offices for their actions. However, that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

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Just consider that the film's title was released here UNTRANSLATED but ROMANIZED for computer database purposes

That would also be a rather bad idea. There is a third option, however, that is a good idea: call it "Ring," as has been done on video in the U.K. and Australia and has been done with theatrical exhibitions here in the U.S. Lincoln Center thankfully didn't advertise the trilogy as "Ringu" when showing it as part of their horror festival last year. I understand, however, that Dreamworks fears confusion with their own remake. While I am sympathetic to this problem, I still think their solution is less than optimal.

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Having a 'u' on the end of the title is not going to send anybody who would have been interested in picking it up, screaming out the door of the store, especially if it's further clarified that this is the inspiration for Verbinski's version.


I don't think anyone in this thread has expressed a fear that the "Ringu" title will repel possible viewers.

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If one is going to attack foreign film titles, why wasn't there a fuss about a certain film not being released with the title The Fabulous Destiny of Amelie Poulain? I consider that much more of a breach of intent.

I definitely saw some criticisms of the title as released here, and also of the additional title that appears in the subtitles during the title sequence: "Amelie From Montmartre."

DJ
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post #30 of 84
3/1/03 at 1:25am
Quote:
Therefore it should be "Ring"

And the discussion going on in this thread should be about the movie and its DVD release, what with the title of the thread being "Ringu impressions Page" and all. Yet it was only two posts and one hour and 21 minutes before you derailed it completely.

Could we either get back on topic or lock this pointless, trivial argument up please?
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