Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club - Page 102

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

#106 - L'argent (1983) -

Alright, let's give it

Either Bresson's last work features the worse acting I have seen on this list, or it is the director's intent. Rhetorical question (statement) actually, as the direction makes it fairly evident that the "actors" in this film are supposed to be little more than mere mannequins, automatons: the camera is far more concerned with their hands (and incidentally, their mid sections) than their one note faces, or worse, one note stiffness from head to toe.

The film actually had me for a while. Before whatshisname ended up in jail, I was mildly involved before I realized it was a one trick pony: close up of hands handling money, locks, purses, closing and opening doors... etc.

Typical of French films of this time (the type I grew up with in the 80s), ambient sounds are disproportionately loud and call attention to themselves, often in the form of nearby motor vehicles, often at the loudest at the start of scenes (the editing sorta cuts into them), creating this obviously manufactured feeling of "being there".

Why the half star? I did like the extreme economy of dialog, Bresson typically cuts to dialog already in progress, and we show up just in time to hear the relevant info then cut to the next scene. But really that's it!

Terrible film, the kind that makes me doubt the wisdom of the voters on this list. I mean, what in the world would possess anyone to consider this one of the best films ever made, 95th out of almost 400??!!

Frigging L'argent was voted ahead of:

All About Eve
The Best Years of our Lives
Do the Right Thing
In the Mood for Love
Paths of Glory
Farewell My Concubine
Fargo
The Good The Bad and the Ugly
The Lady Vanishes
Rosemary's Baby

... to name 10 films I rank (if I were to list everything between and , the list would be a LOT longer)

--
H

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

#147 - Pickpocket - Bresson hasn't been one of my favourite filmmakers due mainly to his style and approach. As Holadem remarked above, emoting doesn't seem to be a requirement for his actors (at least in the 4-5 films I've seen of his so far). I'm sure Bresson has his reasons for this, but it can sure make a film a long haul (I'm thinking specifically of Diary Of A Country Priest - engaged me the first 40 minutes but just sank into despair and stretched it out). At a tidy 75 minutes, Pickpocket withstands some of these aspects of his filmmaking and does a solid job of crafting the picture of compulsion. The actual pickpocketing scenes in the film are extremely well done and show some deft moves as well as building some tension. Outside of those scenes, the central character (very much a blank slate) is shown reaching a point where he's not even sure why he's stealing anymore.

Might be too soon for you to try another Bresson though Holadem...

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

Yeah definitely. This guy makes Stanley Kubrick's actors look warm and fuzzy .

To think that I was this close to getting Pickpocket, Au Hazard Bathazar and L'Argent from the library all at once, in an effort to group my screenings by director... btw, I never cease to be amazed by my local library's criterion selection. Most of the stuff I've watched in the last few weeks come from there. I have a Netflix subscription, but routinely forget to mail stuff back, and can for an entire month without new disks .

Back to Bresson, just based on the one I saw, it's very easy to see how his aesthetics would them themselves perfectly to scenes of pickpocketing.

--
H

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

The lack of emoting in Bresson's films is quite deliberate, I assure you. Did you really think that he just... what, forgot to direct his actors?

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

Uh no, I don't think either Holadem or I thought that. Let's check...

I said:


and Holadem said:


Nope, I think we both fully understand. Thanks for asking though.

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

Did you just... what, skip the rest of the relevant paragraph in my post?

--
H

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

Er... something like that. I honestly dunno what happened there, I think I just skimmed it too casually. I haven't felt this dumb in a long time.

So, uh, my bad.

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

Not a problem. But I am sure you're gonna go back to rolling your eyes after the following :

I don't think the actors in this film were very good at being emotionless robots either. Not emoting is acting as well, but sometimes these people seemed camera conscious, and that's never a good thing (nor is it ever intentional as far as I know).

--
H

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

I can't say I ever noticed that, but it wouldn't surprise me... Bresson typically worked with "non-actors". Which is a practice I usually disagree with, but to me, Bresson makes it work.

I didn't like L'Argent much the first time I saw it, mainly because I didn't buy the character motivations. While I still think that's an issue, on the second viewing I was a lot more impressed by the attention to physicality and detail, the framing, and the understated acting.

A Man Escaped is probably the best entry point for Bresson.

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

In general, with this list, I've found it's best to go at it scattershot, it's far too easy to burn out (or burn through) on a director's work, and some of the eclectic filmmakers of the list can be quite trying to the viewer when taken all at once in a large dose.

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

I take it you wouldn't be down for a Tarkovsky Tuesday?

--
H

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

not so much. Though I might be down for a Spielberg Saturday or Miyazaki Monday

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

Hmm, film festivals in hell

Satan welcomes you to

Antonioni August (it's hot, and it never ends)

Godard Groundhog Day (every morning you wake up, and have to watch all of Godard's films all over again)

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

heh, Antonioni August, and here I was always fond of the month... I always thought there were several holidays in August, my little sisters birthday, then my birthday, then my older brother's birthday.

I was horrified when I finally figured out what my dad's "I was always very thankful" joke meant, that's traumatic at ten, especially when your dad tells it to every secretary, receptionist and waitress he meets.

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

Film festivals in hell? How about Disney December? *shudder*

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

Now might be a the perfect time to diffuse all this negativity with a rave review, if only I could find the words to convey how much I loved Carne's Children of Paradise (1945). I have been trying for more than a week now without success - for some strange reason it's been easier to write lukewarm reviews (if you can call these short paragraphs that). Pretty frustrating actually, especially since the film has never left my mind since. And for the next couple of weeks I just won't have the time to put those thoughts together.

It just thoroughly blew me away, the last time that happened with this list was with BoA a couple of months ago, but this is completely different genre, looks and feels straight out of a Balzac, Dumas or Hugo novel (and inadvertently transported me back to the happier times of high school when we studied this stuff). CoP is probably closer to a tragedy than anything, yet it is bursting at the seams with this unlikely optimism and contagious joie de vivre. The movie puts a smile on my face every time I think of it, that how much I liked it!

Anyway, for the records...

#107 - Children of Paradise (1945) -

I would love to read your thoughts on this one.

--
H

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

I loved Children of Paradise, superb film, one of the great joyous discoverys on this list.

I was disappointed to miss it a theatrical screening a couple months ago.

Now Disney December sounds like a lot of fun, I think I have thirty-one days worth of Disney feature films, plus more than enough animated and live action shorts on dvd to do a full night's programming for all of december.

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

I'm too busy watching Christmas movies all December to devote it to Disney, but I guess if I were up in Heaven I'd have time to watch 2 movies a day.

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

#148 - Crimes And Misdemeanors - Superb Woody Allen film from the late 80's. It started a bit slow, but gathered me in as it went. Once the overlapping stories started to tie in the themes I was hooked. Martin Landau was freaking fabulous too, playing the very self absorbed doctor with the relationship "problem". I haven't seen many of Allen's films from the 80's onward, but I guess I should start investigating.

#149 - My Darling Clementine - Another solid western. I'm really a John Ford novice, knowing more about his films via AFI specials and the like than actually viewing them. Gorgeous scenery and a very tidy telling of the story. "When ya pull a gun, kill a man!"

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

Holadem, I think Children of Paradise must be the best movie that's ever been made about performers or artists, theater people in this case. But more than that, every other main character is also playing some "role," e.g. Garance with all her different men, Lacenaire representing the violent fringe of high society who exposes it but can't completely join it, etc. Tons of movies over the years have been all about "role-playing" in one way or another, but Children of Paradise beats them all.

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

Faster Pussycat, Kill! Kill!

I'll admit it. I didn't think that the legitmacy of this list could be any less. But having watched this film, I was wrong. Any list of purportedly great films that includes something like this (that even lovers of films like Cries & Whispers have to admit this flick is complete garbage) has lost whatever credibility it did have by including some truly great films.

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

I actually agree with George for once.

I've been going through Russ Meyer's films this year and was letdown by FASTER PUSSYCAT. I didn't expect it to be a classic, which is what this list is suppose to show, but it didn't even live up to its cult classic tag. I found several other Meyer films to be better but none of them belong on a list like this.

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

I just threw up in my mouth a little.


Actually I have some Tark to go so those might change my mind, and anyway I find him to dry but not bad or annoying in the traditional "hack" sense. In fact since we started doing this I've become a lot more aware of hack styles, not just because of seeing such a variety of alternative styles but because of my own film study classwork.

Any more I struggle to tolerate even "The Rock", a film I enjoyed originally. Now I just see all the writing, directing and scoring gimmicks and the total lack of substance. Contrast that with Road Warrior which I find more compelling than ever, meaning its not that I'm looking for drama or intellectual over action, I just want to see a better range and a more interesting use of style.



Children of Paradise - my comments are a few pages back. I LOVED this film, one that shot into my favorite films list after I saw it (for S&S). Selections like this are what keep you plowing through films you aren't so fond of. I like your comments on the film too.


Maltese - love it still, tight script (dialog, scenes I mean), great characters. I'm surprised you had this reaction. This is a film that makes people into noir fans usually.

Dolce Vita - like a lot of Fellini it meanders, but I still enjoyed a lot of it. Good character studies. One of the more digestable Fellini's for me.


Bresson - I really liked Man Escaped, not a fave but good. Bois de Boulogne was pretty good. Lancelot du Lac I thought was amateurish crap half the time, one of the worst entries on the list. If L'argent is anyting like that then I'll probably end up agreeing with your dislike of it.

It made you burn all your Rolling Stones albums?

I did like Don't Look Now though.


Strangelove is a film that has grown on me. I always liked it, but I only began to love it after a few viewings, much like Raising Arizona.

McCabe - yes, I find it rather dull too, my feelings are the same as yours Bob. No problem that it's on the list really.

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

But what if your list was 7 films like Kane, Lawrence, etc and then PTA, Incredibles and Who Framed?

And we'd only be watching those 3 films if another person also added them to their list as well. Unless there was some collusion (which maybe there was with this) I'd think that indicated some value, even if it was culturally dependent (like French critics/directors promoting a film more influential in France than elsewhere). On the whole it might not be an elite film, but in a survey sense of the entire film spectrum it would be a good film to view.

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

Well, I think that rather than mixing them together, it would be better to be upfront about it. A list of the greatest films of all time should be just that. A list of absolute essentials that everyone who hasn't seen should see at least once. Not that there'd ever be agreement about such a list, but I certainly would understand why films I don't like such as LOA are on such a list, and I'm certainly glad I saw LOA.

If you want another list that is non-essential films that might appeal to certain subgroups - great. Create such a list. I understand why some folks might like any of the films on this list. If you're the type of person who likes bad B movies, then you would appreciate a list of films like Faster Pussycat, Plan 9, and Santa Claus Conquers the Martians. But there's no need to populate a list of great films with such tripe.

It's not that I'm against lists that include a wide variety (in quality and type) of films, it's just that I want truth in advertising in such lists. I realize it's all a matter of opinion, but the S&S list is (according to the website) advertised as follows: "Every ten years Sight & Sound has asked film critics, directors, writers and academics to compile a list of the best films of all time."

Now S&S decides who gets a vote, and if you're getting voters that are including bad B movies on a list of "the best films of all time", then you're doing a piss poor job of selecting those voters, and you're creating a falsely advertised list.

Again, just my opinion, but when you allow some director or critic to champion a personal favorite that even they know is nowhere near a great film, by contaminating your list of the greatest, then all it does is convince people like me that the list is a joke as such. Let people champion inferior films if you want, but not in a list of the greatest films of all-time.

If S&S had any desire to return integrity to such a list, they'd have a 2012 greatest films list, and a 2012 films that critics/directors want to champion list. But I fully expect the opposite to happen, and that more and more voters in 2012 will replace greatest film votes with personal underdog votes.

And if they want to create a list that is a survey of various film styles and genres and countries and eras, then great. Tell us that these are some prime examples of late 20th century avant-garde Latvian horror films. But don't include them in the greatest films of all time list unless they're truly deserving.

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

I think any film "fan/buff/geek/nerd" should watch some of the less popular, non-Hollywood, non-arthouse films. For better or worse, stuff like Meyer and Wood have gained a huge cult following and I'd be willing to bet that more people have seen some of these films over the arthouse stuff on here.

You might think FASTER PUSSYCAT is a horrid movie but then again, I'm willing to bet you haven't seen very many films like this. I'd be willing to say that you're not an expert when it comes to these sex films. So, as a film buff, if you had to watch one in your lifetime then it might have well come from the "master" of this type of film and you might have well watched that one film that most consider to be his best. If you hate PLAN 9 FROM OUTER SPACE, then you might as well watch the one that is considered the greatest of all bad Z movies. The SANTA CLAUS/MARTIANS film isn't considered good by any standards so hopefully you'll avoid that one. I personally don't count porno as a real "film" but whether I like it or not, other's do. So, do I watch just any movie or something like DEEP THROAT/DEBBIE DOES DALLAS, which is considered the top of that genre?

We agree that these films shouldn't be included on a greatest film list but if you watch PLAN 9 and enjoy it more than CRIES AND WHISPERS then you could attack the list for having something like C&W on it. You could attack this list (or certainly the AFI one) for putting on bad films like THE JAZZ SINGER but the historical importance does have a play in these films. FASTER PUSSYCAT and Meyer did change the way nudity/sex could be seen so perhaps whoever voted it to the list had that in mind.

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

Again, if this is supposed to be a survey list, introducing you to the 'best' of a bunch of subgenres, then I'd have no problem with many of the films, but that's not what the S&S says the list is. And frankly, would such a list include 4 films by Antonioni, 5 by Tarkovsky, 6 by Bresson and 7 by Godard?!?

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

It certainly is to me. What's even more surprising is that films set in the world of theater (and perhaps even film) don't do much for me. I tend to find them self indulging. The play-within-the-play (ok, film) devices tend to run too long for my taste. But this just completely won me over, not even really sure why. It takes a couple of viewing to cement this sort of stuff but I am comfortable saying this is all-time personal top 20 material. Algiers hit me like a brick, but it's entirely visceral experience that I won't repeating very often (but will feel all over again whenever I do). CoP on the other hand is infinitely watchable, I wanna see it over and over and over again . Actually, I had started with the commentary, but had to stop because it I was already noticing new things and didn't the commentary to spoil the fun .

Of course these two have nothing in common beyond the fact that they are the latest flicks which blew my mind on this list.

Speaking of Tarkovsky, I had Solaris in the house for about a week before I returned it to the library. I am actually looking forward to seeing this, having really enjoyed the 2002 remake. I hope a familiarity with the themes explored here will make this screening more enjoyeable than the downright lethal Andrei Rublev. But I won't be able to commit 3+ hours to it till next year. It's not even a matter of time really, it's just been difficult to quiet the mind long enough for this sort of stuff lately.

--
H

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

I personally find all of these lists quite silly but I did join this one to push myself into watching some of these films a bit faster. I believe I've seen 148 of the films and the list and with a few exceptions, I've enjoyed nearly all of them. With that being said, I really don't think it's too hard to make a list of 300+ four star films. I know I could certainly make my own list of four star films and a seperate list of films I think everyone should see for whatever reasons.

I'd personally enjoy seeing a list where one of the rules is that each director could only have one film listed. Heck, we could take the Director's Challenge and pick one film from each director and have newbies watch those. That way you could see "classics" like KANE, WIND and CASABLANCA as well as foreign stuff like M, THE SEVENTH SEAL and RAN but at the same time see the lesser stuff like FASTER PUSSYCAT, PLAN 9 or whatever other "non-classic" that has a cult rep that should be a required viewing.

I just think it's hard for a lot of folks to keep personal favs out of a list like S&S. I think this explains FASTER PUSSYCAT and THE TINGLER. Fun films but I'd love to hear someone explain why those two need to be on the list before KANE. I think it's also hard for a list like this to keep out historically important films. The AFI list has THE JAZZ SINGER even though it sucks and there are countless other better films. The list also includes THE BIRTH OF A NATION for historic reasons but I think most would vote for INTOLERANCE or BROKEN BLOSSOMS as the better films. FRANKENSTEIN was a major turning point in the American horror genre but the majority says BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN is the better film.

Heck, I know CASABLANCA is a true American classic but I think I'd put KEY LARGO before it in the fun department and THE TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE in front of it for adventure. On a "anything goes" level I'd put both KEY and TREASURE in front but on a S&S list, CASABLANCA would have to be up front.

Re: Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club

#150 - The Double Life Of Veronique - Looking for a plot based movie with a defined beginning, middle and end? You might want to keep looking...But if you're looking for recurring themes, beautiful images and a whole lot of personal interpretation, Weronika/Veronique have your number. I must admit that the ending took some of the wind out of my sails as it seemed to just stop, but upon further reflection and another run through the film (with commentary) more details have been filled in. Two specific elements of the cinematography stand out for me - 1) the number and variety of distorted views looking through glass, windows, transparent spheres, etc. and 2) the almost complete lack of the colour blue from the film, except for a couple of very distinct occurrences. The first makes perfect sense within the film's themes, but I'm not sure about the colour scheme. It's a beautiful effect (greens, reds and golds are everywhere), but I haven't quite figured out the intention. That's OK though...Just makes me think about it more.

#151 - To Have And Have Not - There were moments during this film where I wondered not only where it was going, but why it was going there. It seemed to be wandering. But that's kind of appropriate for the characters...Even if I had those stray thoughts while watching, I never once was bored or disengaged. The banter is sharp as a tack, Bogie is great and I can't believe Lauren Bacall was 19 when they filmed this.

#152 - Red River - A grand Western any way you look at it. The cattle stampede in particular was really extraordinary, but that entire cattle drive was a marvel of filmmaking. Having said that, I thought the end was somewhat weak. Several instances of foreshadowing never seemed to pay off and I thought the ending betrayed somewhat the almost film noirish setup that preceded it.

#153 - Viridiana - A young woman about to enter the convent visits her estranged Uncle (her lone remaining relative) one last time. During her extended stay we see her attempts to live by her moral code and to spread good to the disadvantaged. This all comes crashing down as we see not only the failure of religion, but the continued distinction of the classes. At least that's kinda what I got out of it...I'm not always sure what I'm watching with a Bunuel film, but I have to say that I never find myself bored.

#154 - The Conformist - As sumptuous on a frame by frame basis as any movie I've seen.