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Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club - Page 5

post #121 of 3769
Last comment on the Rashoman. I wasn't disputing that Kurasawa was considered too Western, that was something I already knew, and since I admire Ford greatly I tend to really love all Kurasawa and not care about the influences. What frustrated me about the TA was that he was creating an atmosphere that the ideas and themes of the movies--and Kurasawa's stance and reasoning--wasn't nearly as important as the question of the Japaneseness of the film. When someone tried to argue against this (prefacing his argument by saying he didn't watch Japanese films [exclusively] to learn Japanese culture), the TA immediately cut him off with "I find that, personnally--as a film study major--really disheartening. Just that you'd be taking this class and think movies can't be more than cheap entertainment is really saddening."

While a discussion about Kurasawa's humanism and Western influences on them can be enlightening and interesting--just look at this thread for an awesome example--focusing solely on that aspect, and not really going beyond a surface engagement of the ideas in the movie is in my opinion wrong and vaguely racist. Because you're not giving the film equal treatment, your judging it on a whole different set of standards, and apparently a major criterion of those standards is how culturally pure that piece of artwork is.

It just occured to me that possibly one reason Kurasawa is so enduring is that his films--while Japanese by their own nature and deal with specific Japanese issues in their own way (Rashoman's time period and civic and moral unrest being similar to the questioning and searching going on in Japan post WWII)--are global. so Kurasawa's films resonate because they still apply to a global culture such as ours, where national boundaries and isolationism are not so clearly and explicity defined as they once were.

btw Lew, that last observation
Quote:
Right now I’m of the opinion that the ending was added to include a characteristically Kurowawan perspective, ‘that one man can and does make a societal difference’, decidedly a more optimistic view of human nature than the conclusion that he leads us to on the nature of truth.
is very nice, I wish I'd thought of it!

Adam
post #122 of 3769
Thread Starter 
I've added Jeff and Arman, and updated everyone's total.

~T
post #123 of 3769
Okay, here's the complete list of the S&S Greatest Films I haven't seen:

S&S
RankTitle (My Grade / Rank)
12.Sunrise
37.Au hasard Balthazar
43.Ugetsu Monogatari
55.The Conformist
55.The Story of the Late Chrysanthemums
64.L'Age d'or
64.The Battle of Algiers
64.Greed
64.Last Year at Marienbad
64.Napoleon
82.A City of Sadness
82.Dekalog
82.Ikiru
82.The Leopard
82.Sansho Dayu
82.The Traveling Players
82.Voyage to Italy
95.Chimes at Midnight
95.Don't Look Now
95.El
95.The Gospel According to St. Matthew
95.Letter from an Unknown Woman
95.The Earrings of Madame De
95.A Matter of Life and Death
95.Sherlock Jr.
95.Shoah
124.A Canterbury Tale
124.Close-up
124.Earth
124.Floating Clouds
124.Jeanne Dielman
124.Late Spring
124.L'eclisse
124.The Music Room
124.The Time to Live and the Time to Die
124.Tristana
124.Un Chien andalou
157.A Star Is Born
157.Ai no corrida
157.Berlin Alexanderplatz
157.Black God, White Devil
157.Celine and Julie Go Boating
157.Charulata
157.Fear Eats the Soul
157.In a Year with Thirteen Moons
157.India Song
157.Kaagaz ke phool
157.Kind Hearts and Coronets
157.La Jetée
157.La Maman et la putain
157.Le Crime de Monsieur Lange
157.M. Hulot's Holiday
157.Out of the Past
157.Paisà
157.Providence
157.Pyaasa
157.Salò
157.Stalker
157.The Conversation
157.The Life of Oharu
157.The Palm Beach Story
157.The Rise to Power of Louis XIV
157.Through the Olive Trees
226.1900
226.All That Heaven Allows
226.An Autumn Afternoon
226.And Life Goes On
226.Angel
226.The Apu Trilogy
226.Baby Doll
226.Bigger Than Life
226.Burnt by the Sun
226.Death in Venice
226.Les Demoiselles de Rochefort
226.The Devils
226.Don't Look Back
226.The Double Life of Véronique
226.L'Enfance nue
226.Eternity and a Day
226.Europa
226.F for Fake
226.Le Fantôme de la liberté
226.La Femme d'à côté
226.Fires Were Started
226.Germany Year Zero
226.La Haine
226.Hotel Terminus: Klaus Barbie, His Life and Times
226.I vitelloni
226.Il deserto rosso
226.Lacombe Lucien
226.Lancelot du Lac
226.Limelight
226.Ludwig
226.Make Way for Tomorrow
226.Masculin féminin
226.Meghe dhaka tara
226.A Moment of Innocence
226.The Navigator
226.October
226.Odd Man Out
226.Oedipus Rex
226.Orlando
226.Orphée
226.Pakeezah
226.Partie de campagne
226.The Passenger
226.Performance
226.The Puppetmaster
226.La Région centrale
226.Riff-Raff
226.The Round Up
226.La Rue Cases-Nègres
226.The Sacrifice
226.Salvatore Giuliano
226.Shadows
226.She Wore a Yellow Ribbon
226.Short Cuts
226.Les Silences du palais
226.Still Life
226.Stray Dog
226.Strike
226.The Thing from Another World
226.Time of the Gypsies
226.The Tingler
226.To Sleep with Anger
226.A Touch of Zen
226.Les Vampires
226.Vampyr
226.Vidas Secas
226.Weekend
226.Where Is My Friend's House?
226.White Heat
226.The Wind
226.A Woman under the Influence
226.Xala
post #124 of 3769
Earth was of most interest to me because it is often cited as an influence on Tarkovsky. I now see why -- the opening shot of wind blowing through tall grass makes its way into one of the first sequences in Mirror, the shots of horses appear again in Andrei Rublev, and the final shots of apples spread across the ground are lifted and dropped into one of Ivan's dreams in Ivan's Childhood. A really beautiful film. I wish there were time, technology, and money enough to restore it to its original condition.
post #125 of 3769
Adam,

I would agree that the TA was way off base there. While culture naturally comes through in a person's art, there are numerous other influences in the mix as well. To say that the reason for watching 7 Sam is to get an idea of Japanese thinking is ridiculous. It first makes the assumption that this IS what you will get out of the film, yet our discussion here proves otherwise. It also makes understanding a person's culture the foremost point of a film, while many filmmakers have other philosophical goals in mind. Heck, the filmmaker could be undermining the culture he is from or portraying, but if you weren't from that culture you might not even realize that.

It would be like watching Natural Born Killers to understand American culture, for example. So clearly I'm on your side in that debate.



BTW, I just realized the other day that Alphaville isn't anywhere on the S&S list.
post #126 of 3769
Quote:
BTW, I just realized the other day that Alphaville isn't anywhere on the S&S list.
Very true Seth, but Godard does have seven films on the list.

Only Buñuel (11) and Hitchcock (8) have more entries and only Fellini, Kubrick and Kurosawa have as many.

Not bad company.
post #127 of 3769
I haven't seen any new films off the list recently, but in the last two weeks I saw my first Godard and Fassbinder films, so I thought this would probably be a good place to comment on them.

Contempt

I enjoyed Contempt, and admire it, but I was nearly bored to tears when Bardot wasn't naked or talking to her husband. I find the scenes with the american producer, the husband, and camille frustrating (that may be the point). Fritz Lang is wonderful. I loved the scene in the screening room. Favorite part was the long sequence at the apartment, I loved and was riveted by this part of the movie (unfortunately for me the TA and other classmates pointed out this is supposed to feel claustrophobic and boring, so apparently I didn't react 'correctly' (note sarcasm there)). Despite the beatiful photography I got terribly bored with the film when it moves to the island, and fell asleep while watching the husband having his gun handed to him, I knew from the earlier part of the movie that he wouldn't be using it and I just found the possibility of violence boring, didn't perk me up at all. I was only asleep for about five or ten minutes though. Unsurprised by the end, but mainly by that point in the movie I was waiting for it to be over. Certainly a film I'm interested in watching again, but not too soon, wonderfully made regardless of whatever your opinion of its storytelling (or lack thereof).

The Marraige of Maria Braun
I really enjoyed this film. Maria is simply a fantastic chararacter, I just saw this a couple hours ago, so I'm still processing everything. Quite a daring and in your face picture though. Very interesting how Fassbinder alternately subverts and reinforces Mulvey's theories of looking at women. I found this to be a fairly powerful film. Certainly makes me want to see the other fassbinder films on the list as well as Ali: voices of fear, which was recommended to us.

Adam
post #128 of 3769
I'm not actively seeking out these films just because they are on this list yet but expect to hit some in my viewings. Such was the case about two weeks ago and I didn't notice until now.

She Wore a Yellow Ribbon - I watched all three Ford/Wayne calvery films. The quality got worse with each film. I really liked Fort Apache (but it's not on this list). SWaYR was an enjoyable film but it was noting more than a cowboys and Indians western. An entertaining one but I like western to have something more to them.

Re Contempt - I remember watching S&E when this was rereleased a few years ago. Siskel said after viewing that it might be one of the top 10 ever films. Ebert was shocked and had a moment of speachlessness. Since it's been a while since I saw this and I just got the DVD I need to rewatch this soon.
post #129 of 3769
Pascal, your point about Japan's past and the search for truth in Rashomon is a great insight. I've always found the impossibility of knowing truth in Rashomon compelling, but your point brings even more social context to the film.

Rewatched Chungking Express, 126.

Saw it on TV a few years back with a fuzzy memory. Terrific fun. The romance and charm is enchanting because these people are so desperate, isolated and lonely. The repeated use of musical cues get better and better everytime around; the first time we see Tony Leung come up to the camera with California Dreaming is pure magic. Chungking Express is some kind of miracle that is hard to explain, and I like it even more than In The Mood For Love.
post #130 of 3769
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post #131 of 3769
SWaYR was an enjoyable film but it was noting more than a cowboys and Indians western. An entertaining one but I like western to have something more to them.
Well I'd be happy if it was just entertaining, which I disagree about. I found it to be boring and cliched (not as bad as Cimarron, but not much less cliched).
post #132 of 3769
Umberto D., one of the best of De Sica’s films was on TCM a few days ago.

This film always brings a tear to my eye. Poignant without sentimentality, it so clearly depicts the dilemma of a pensioner, with no family and few friends, no money and with an eviction coming, no place to live.

He has only the friendship of a young, unmarried, pregnant maid and his dog. The plot, such as it is, revolves around the bond between man and dog, and how they both care for (and perhaps) save one another.

This is filmmaking of the highest order. De Sica just presents things as they are, without much judgment or comment—but in that lack, we draw our own conclusions as to the social order that allows such a small tragedy.

Maria: I’m pregnant
Umberto: How can you say it just like that?
Maria: How else should I say it?
post #133 of 3769
I love Umberto D, it's my favorite De Sica film and I would probably only place Germany Year Zero above it as far as the neo-realist films that I've seen.

Nanook Of The North is notable for it's place in hisotry and documentary filmmaking. There really isn't a whole lot to the movie, we see Nanook and his "family" (actually paid performers chosen for their appearance and not related to Nanook) engaged in various activities, hunting, building an igloo, at a trading post, caring for the children, and that's about it. But the film is presenting a way of life that was fading from history even then and is probably vanished now. Also because the activities we see are important for the very survival of these people, the mundane actions take on a much greater level of importance than in other "slice of life" documentaries. Although again this must be tempered by the fact that even at this time, the Eskimos had guns and other technology and no longer hunted or often lived in the manner portrayed in the film.

Also before this it never occurred to me that the temperature inside an igloo would have to be kept below freezing or how the human body would have to aclimate to being naked under such conditions for washing, etc.
post #134 of 3769
OK! I watched two more movies... raising my level to 36!

The 400 Blows and Breathless were the two i watched last week. Both were just wonderful. I thought Breathless was better than 400 blows; although i only saw The 400 Blows once, and Breathless twice. I love how Breathless was made, there so much symbolism, foreshadowing and repeating of themes. I don't really want to go into it that much... i cut my finger bad today at work and as a result my typing is slow and obnoxious...
post #135 of 3769
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post #136 of 3769
43 Films viewed.

Watched two today: Jules and Jim(A+) and The General(A+).

Watched some in my film class... Stagecoach(A+)Red River(A) Shane(C) My Darling Clementine(A+) The Wild Bunch(A) Double Indemnity(A) Out of The Past(B)
post #137 of 3769
Boy we should get Netflix or Blockbuster subsidizing the forums for all the business we're bringing them with these classics (S&S, AFI, etc) we're renting

just caught Rear Window (what visuals!... with just background jazz music, and the suspense was just engrossing...and I can't complement Jimmy Steward enough), some Fellini--8 1/2, La Dolce Vita, Nights of Cabiria; Tokyo Story, Rules of the Game, and a few others, so my count is at 72

on a side note, anyone have any idea where I might purchase Hou Hsiao-hsien's DVDs, aside from eBay? I found a copy of City of Sadness, but it was in Taiwanese and no English subtitles. Specifically looking for City of Sadness and A Time to Live and a Time to Die
post #138 of 3769
Hey, i would just like to be added to the list of those dedicated to seeing all of the movies on the S&S list
So far, i have seen 74 movies
1)Citizen Kane (A)
2)Vertigo (A+)
3)8 ½ (A)
5)2001: A Space Odyssey(C)
7)Godfather part II (A+)
8)Seven Samurai (A+)
9)Rashomon (C)
13)The Searchers (A)
14)Lawrence of Arabia (A+)
15)Godfather (A+)
18)Passion of Joan of Arc (A)
19)A Bout de Souffle (B-)
20)L'Avventura (B+)
21)Touch of Evil (A+)
22)Dr. Strangelove (A)
23)Jules et Jim (C)
24)Raging Bull (B+)
26)Psycho (A)
27)Sunset Blvd. (A)
28)The General (A+)
31)The Godfather and the Godfather Part II (A+)
33)Some Like it Hot (A+)
35)Children of Paradise (A-)
38)The Apartment (A)
39)Apocalypse Now (B+)
41)The Seventh Seal (A-)
42)Taxi Driver (A+)
44)Chinatown (A+)
45)Les Mepris (B-)
56)Barry Lyndon (C)
59)North by Northwest (A+)
60)On the Waterfront (A+)
66)Blade Runner (A)
76)Pulp Fiction (A+)
78)Rio Bravo (A)
80)The Wild Bunch (B-)
82)A Clockwork Orange (A)
84)Goodfellas (A)
96)Blue Velvet (B-)
100)Double Indemnity (A-)
105)His Girl Friday (B+)
106)It’s a Wonderful Life (A+)
107)the Lady Eve (B-)
112)My Darling Clementine (A)
114)Notorious (A-)
115)Once Upon a Time in America (A)
116)Pierrot le fou (B-)
119)Stagecoach (B+)
138)King Kong (A+)
144)Red River (A-)
165)Bonnie and Clyde (A-)
172)Do the Right Thing (B+)
173)E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial (A)
178)Jaws (A+)
186)Meet Me in St. Louis (B)
188)One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest (A)
189)Out of the Past (B)
191)Paths of Glory (A-)
197)Spartacus (A-)
198)Spirited Away (B+)
200)Star Wars (A+)
203)the Best Years of Our Lives (A-)
204)The Bridge on the River Kwai (A+)
206)The Conversation (A)
208)The Exorcist (C)
223)Unforgiven (A)
241)Bride of Frankenstein (B)
257)Fargo (A)
261)The Godfather Trilogy (B+)
262)The Good the Bad and the Ugly (A-)
279)The Maltese Falcon (B+)
310)Schindler’s List (A+)
312)Shane (A-)
314)The Shining (C+)
post #139 of 3769
Tokyo Story -

Simply incredible!

What an amazing film, I can't really think of how to express how good this was, but definitly played into exactly what I like. The only downer is the lack of transitions and rejection of eyeline matches, they never failed to throw me out of enjoying the movie and in effect reminded me I was supposed to be analyzing it for a class. Either those are ineffective storytelling devices, or I"m just so western biased and used to western conventions that I can't easily handle it when those methods aren't used. But I did like the lack of clear transitions, it never failed to keep me focused on what it was that was happening, no short traveling sequence, no establishing shot/longshot/medium shot push in to remind you where ín the story you're at. As a result I feel like I know the entire family much better than I would have in a more traditional film. This was particularly appropriate for me right now because our family lost my grandfather last fall, so it touched a chord with me especially.

The subtitled did only about 3/4 of the dialogue, choosing to focus on the back and forth exchanges rather than capturing every comment. But the subtitles did give me enough context to infer mostly what they were saying. However I think I could have watched this without subtitles and it still would have been almost as powerful.

I only got the story this time out, but I feel that there was much more going on than I could begin to get, things like the repeated shots of the wash hanging on the lines, and other details seems to say that they mean something, but I just don't know yet.

As with L'Âge d'Or my strongest reaction is that I want to see it again (preferably on DVD so I'll wait hopefully that Criterion will release it this fall)

Adam
post #140 of 3769
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post #141 of 3769
Admin, please delete this
post #142 of 3769
NickNC, I bought my Hou boxset from HKFlix.com ($89.99), but Volume 1 doesn't have A City of Sadness in it (my copy is an OOP PAL VHS from the UK). It consists of The Boys from Fengkuei, Dust in the Wind, A Summer at Grandpa's, and The Time to Live and the Time to Die.

Well, I rewatched Glauber Rocha's Black God, White Devil again, but it really is a rambling, fragmented, and unengaging film. Rocha's filmmaking approach is spare, sweeping, and folkloric (something visually akin to a distilled version of Sam Pekinpah's Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia). At the center of the film is a peasant farmer who commits a grave sin. Accepting that his soul is damned, he begins to wander the earth, first blindly following a false prophet whom he believes is the incarnation of St. Sebastian (the titular "black god"), then an immoral, bloodthirsty mercenary (the "white devil") seeking vengeance for the death of a comrade.

Although I grasped Rocha's social statement on the "revolutionary" mentality of religion and law in contemporary Brazil, the protagonist's spiritual and moral conflict seemed unneccessarily contrived and overplayed for shock value.

I can appreciate the S&S Poll participants' attempt to bring exposure to Rocha's haunting cinematography and independent spirit, but Black God, White Devil is not the film that does his socially relevant cinema complete justice. They should have voted for Terra em Transe instead.
post #143 of 3769
can anyone tell if there is a master list of the titles that are on netflix? and a part of the criterion collection?
post #144 of 3769
There's no master list for netflix I don't think at least, there is however a master list at www.greencine.com which is an indie/alt/foreign version of netflix, just look up a S&S title and there should be a link on the right to a listing of all that are available.

Adam
post #145 of 3769
I had already counted both of these on my total since I knew I would be seeing them soon, but I most recently watched -

La Strada
A very good film, though I wasn't quite blown away by it. The performance I was most impressed by was Giulietta Masina, her screen presence is fantastic in this film. Of course you always know what you are going to get with Anthony Quinn in terms of quality.


The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari
Wow. Now this blew me away. What an incredible film. It has a gripping story, beautiful art direction, and is just remarkably progressive for it's time period. One of the very earliest "high art" films, certainly one of the most inventive.


I missed Broken Blossoms in class, so now I have to do a make up viewing. I also have about 10 others sitting around on Tivo or DVD, but Sherlock Jr. is the only other one I have already counted but haven't actually seen (besides BB).


Also, while not a SnS film, for class last week we watched Cabiria (1914 - not to be confused with the Fellini film) which is a fantastic Italian film. The Temple of Moloch set seems to be a certain influence on Lang's version of the "machine temple" seen early in Metropolis (which I still have to finish BTW). Cabiria, for those who enjoy silents, is a fun adventure film, though it is sometimes muddled by subplots dropped in only as historical showcases. The intertwining plotline is enjoyable and rather mature for the era (it's a plot style we are now familiar with) and the characters of Axilla and his sidekick/slave Maciste are fun heroes to follow.

I really think that if Caligari and Birth of a Nation belong on the SnS list then Cabiria does as well. It's really one of the first blockbusters, preceeding BoaN by a year, and exceding that film in huge set pieces and scene featuring extras in the thousands. It also showcases some of the very earliest tracking shots, and slow moving artistic tracking shots at that - as opposed to the fast tracking used to follow trains or horse riding action scenes. Since Italy was basically the birthplace of the feature length film I am confused as to why SnS would have BoaN or Intolerance on the list but not have Cabiria on there.



Also watched some of The Last Days of Pompeii (1913), basically the 2nd half. The film's biggest problem is that it tends to drag with lingering shots that go on way past their point (slow moving lava with no placement in the surrounds is just not that compelling).
post #146 of 3769
This is not guaranteed to be complete, but Criterion has editions of:

8 1/2
The 400 Blows
Alexander Nevsky
L’Avventura
La Belle et la bête
Bob le flambeur
Black Narcissus
Cries and Whispers
Day of Wrath
The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie
Do the Right Thing
Les Enfants du paradis
Gertrud
Grand Illusion
Great Expectations
The Lady Eve
Loves of a Blonde
The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp
M
Nights of Cabiria
Ordet
The Passion of Joan of Arc
Playtime (OOP)
Rashomon
The Scarlet Empress
Solaris
Seven Samurai
The Seventh Seal
A Taste of Cherry
The Third Man
Trouble in Paradise
The Wages of Fear
Wild Strawberries
post #147 of 3769
Vivre sa vie is still as fine as I remembered. But perhaps not as great. What used to seem breathtaking, now seems studied and some of what used to seem deep now seems enigmatic.

Still, the power of Godard’s story of a young wife’s descent into lonely prostitution remains, as does the simplicity of its presentation, and the effortless use of the camera to tell the story visually.
post #148 of 3769
La Strada An OK film, but nothing particularly special. I enjoyed it, but I couldn't tell you anything profound I learned about the human condition from it. I do have a question though. Does Richard Basehart speak Italian, or was it dubbed? It didn't really sound like him to me, though I didn't notice any lip asynchronization.

Puts me at 134.
post #149 of 3769
of what used to seem deep now seems enigmatic
Watch out Lew, you're starting to sound a little bit like me, God forbid.
post #150 of 3769
127 with the above mentioned She Wore a Yellow Ribbon. The way I see it, there are three things at conflict here which prevents it from being a great film. Two are plotlines which I didn't really care for, one about the triangle romance and the other about the conflicts with the Indians. At first, the Indians are still painted in the stereotypical matter commonly seen in previous westerns; but towards the end Ford reveals his shifting attitudes towards the natives, and seems to be on the path towards the great film that is The Searchers. Nevertheless, these two aspects of the film are not very compelling.

The third aspect of the film works very well--John Wayne and retirement. Wayne gives some touching moments I wasn't expecting. This is easily the best part of the movie, and it seems like this is the real topic of the movie; it is a great issue to expand through a whole movie, but perhaps that would not have fit into the Ford-Wayne-Westerns mode too well with audiences without the romance and threatening plot threads. For whatever reason, it's a shame. It really works--like Wayne in The Searchers or Eastwood in Unforgiven--because we see the character not as Nathan Brittles but as John Wayne The Western Character, and we bring past events and sentiments to this movie.

As usual, Ford's use of landscapes and action are breathtaking. The photography and colors here are also wonderful. Overall, I found the standard plot of SWaYR to be standard indeed, but still rewarding because of Wayne's performance and character.
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