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What Projector to buy in 2016 for Cat-Fisch Cinema? (1 Viewer)

Dennis Nicholls

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That's what I was getting to about learning about projectors. IMHO black levels are more important than contrast in a projector. That's why DLP is still hanging on.


Can you borrow a projector from someone?
 

DFurr

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Josh Steinberg said:
Ultimately it comes down to your preferences and how much money you feel comfortable spending, but I echo Sam Posten's sentiment that it's not worth spending $4000 on a 1080p projector these days. Especially if you think you might go 4K in a couple years. Is there a store near you that carries one or both that you can demo some stuff on? The Magnolia parts of Best Buy near me in NY had the Epson 5030 on display, so I was able to take a look at the projector in action. If not, there are some websites (I think ProjectorPeople is one of them) that will accept returns as long as you've used it less than a certain number of hours - so you might even have the ability to order the one you think you want, and then change your mind if it doesn't look like you hoped.


On a previous thread, I believe I had read that you were on the fence between spending big on a 4K projector now, or spending less on a 1080p and upgrading in a few years. There's no wrong answer of course, but if it were my money and I was starting from scratch, I'd be inclined to get the Epson (or something similarly priced now), and then do 4K in a few years when it's more affordable and all of the specs have been finalized and there's a better idea of how well UHD BD adoption is doing.
I'll second that.
 

DaveF

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And I understand now that the Sony VPL-40ES is the price-class competitor to the Epson 5030 and company. I don't know the differences yet between it and its big brother 65ES.


"Too many butterflies..." ;)
 

DaveF

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BestBuy has the Sony VPL-HW40ES on sale for $2000. That's about normal for Amazon, but it means I can buy it locally without any issues around price matching. And I can return it more readily if necessary.

The other real contender seems to be the Epson 5030UB remains at $2000.

Sony's 2014 4k, the VPL-600ES has dropped to $11,000. This fits with my guesstimate that 4k projectors will be under $7500, perhaps even $5000, in three years. That further pushes me to a $2000 HD projector over a $4000 HD projector (as I think you good folks are advising).

I'm going to do online research and try to get out to the stores today and hopefully do a demo. But at the same price of $2000, would you buy the Epson or the Sony? Or is there a third option I really should consider?
 

Josh Steinberg

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I really, really love the Epson, but I haven't seen that Sony in person so I can't give a comparison between the two. I've read nothing but good things about the Sony. Whichever way you go, I'm not sure there's a wrong choice here.
 

Bob Cashill

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Same response. I love my Epson, but haven't seen the Sony. I'd probably love it, too, if it's in the same ballpark.
 

Sam Posten

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Buying a fake 4K will just delay your desire for real 4K. Save $2k and buy the Epson today if you must and get in line with the rest of us who want an affordable real 4K in the next 2 years. Or wait 6 months and be an Early adopter for the BenQ 11000
 

Everett S.

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To plan my basement media room, the Cat-Fisch Cinema, I should buy the projector sooner than later, ahead of detailed planning of furniture and seating. I've never had a projector before, and basically no first-hand experience with media-rooms / home theaters. I need to play with the projector to see how it behaves and looks to make an informed decision what screen size, projection distance, and seating location to plan around.


I was hoping to stay in the doodle-space of planning a while longer, but I need to change to projector shopping.


I've ruled 4k out. Entry price is $8000, with the Epson LS10000 and it's pseudo-4k. Getting true 4k is $10,000 for the Sony's. And neither supports HDR, to my understanding.


My budget is $5000, with $3000 preferred. I want to buy a good 1080p projector, ostensibly to upgrade when a 100" 4k display is available for $5000 (I'm technology agnostic; who knows whether projectors or direct displays will get there first).


What I'd hope to accomplish:

  • 100" to 120" 16:9 image for TV & video games in a light-controlled room.
  • Memory-driven zoom / lens shift / brightness change to fake CIH of 2:35 for movies (using a manually masked 2.35 screen)
  • Projector is ~14' from screen
  • Low lag for gaming desired
Last week I saw an article that Texas I. was coming out this spring with a new chip that would bring the cost of 4k projectors to under $2000.00!!!
 

schan1269

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Just when I've talked myself off the edge, I do a little more reading...
JVC DLA-X550R (same as the RS400, I think) for $4000
Faux 4k, with memory everything. The downside is lag might be too high for any gaming. I'm reading some discussions on it, to see if there's really any there-there and if might be worth a $2000 premium over the 5030 or 40ES.

If gaming is a priority...

Get a Sony.
 

DaveF

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Thanks all. :)

I spent some quality time today at the local Magnolia / BestBuy and got a good demo of the Sony and JVC, and middling demo of the Epson. The Sony 40 and 65 are in a speaker demo room with good light control and a 96" screen. I was pleased with the Sony. The Epson is in the "Outdoor" room, open to the greater store and lacking light control. The Epson looked fine but wasn't demo'd to full potential. The JVC 550 was in a demo section with mediocre light control and still looked great. Vibrant colors and no visible pixel structure even inches from the screen.

I really like the JVC, as it gives a great 1080 image at any viewing distance and has motorized, memory controls. So tempting...

But my wife agrees with you on going for a $2000 projector, since I plan/hope to upgrade to real 4k in three years. And a faux-4k won't really postpone the desire for that upgrade.

I'm doing research now between the Epson and Sony to see if there's a reason to not buy one or the other. Sony is first choice, to allow for gaming. I saw some comment about Sony have a light-engine problem, so I'm looking for info on that to see if it's systemic or a fluke.
 

DaveF

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What aspect ratio screens do you use?

I want to allow for faux CIH with projector zooming. I was thinking of going all-in with a 2.35:1 screen. But the great majority of my viewing is TV and then video games, which is 1.77. And then the movies I watch tend to be contemporary, which are largely 1.85. The number of 2.0 to 2.35 movies I watch is pretty small. So rather than spend money on a large screen that I'd infrequently fully utilize, I'm thinking it's a good compromise to get a 1.85:1 screen to allow for faux CIH so movies are still bigger than TV, even if Lawrence of Arabia has letterboxes compared to Pacific Rim.

I'm over at ProjectorCentral's calculator my geometry that the Epson and Sony have the zoom range to do this in my room.

(Ok, doing the math I see that 1.85 and 1.77 are different by only 6 inches in width for a 120" diagonal. Going from a 120" 16x9 to a 150" 2.35:1 (constant height) is zoomable with the Sony within a range of throw distances, but is pushing its limits. There are options here but will take some experiments to find out what's good.)
 
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DFurr

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I keep TV shows on the TV, not in my screening room. ;) Since I don't play video games my choice for screen size was simple. My screen is a 2:35 version, with side movable masking to 1:85. The good news is that at a 20 foot throw, my Epson 5010 zooms perfectly between 2:35 and 1:85 using a constant height screen. The biggest problem I face using a constant height screen is the IMAX shots on some movie titles shoots off the top and bottom, into the black masking. I could fix that with movable top or bottom masking but that's a whole other can of worms!! I need the screen size for 35mm film projection so it's a compromise between film and video formats.
Good luck with your choice.
 

DaveF

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Contemporary shows like The Expanse or The Good Wife deserve a *big* screen :)

You find the change in brightness acceptable over that range of screen diagonals?

Remind me, do you have manual masks or motorized? Do you have photos up in your theater thread?
 

Sam Posten

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I personally found the wacky aspect ratio wrangling way too much trouble for what it's worth. Buy a 16x9 screen and live with bars on the few scope movies you'll watch, the near zero 4:3 content you will see, and live hassle free with EVERY live tv broadcast and most movies with slim or no bars.
 

DFurr

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Contemporary shows like The Expanse or The Good Wife deserve a *big* screen :)

You find the change in brightness acceptable over that range of screen diagonals?

Remind me, do you have manual masks or motorized? Do you have photos up in your theater thread?
I really don't have any issues with the light between 2:35 and 1:85 however I'm using a high gain silver 3D screen.
On my "New HT in SoCal", page 11, post #205 theres a couple of short videos showing the motorized masking traveling out to 2:35 and the actuator that moves the panels.
 

Josh Steinberg

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What aspect ratio screens do you use?

I use a 16x9 (1.78:1) screen. I would probably second Sam Posten's sentiments and stick with that.

To my mind, there's little use in going 1.85:1 - the difference between 1.78:1 and 1.85:1 is so minimal as to be almost invisible to the eye. Most of the 1.85:1 moves I've seen on Blu-ray and DVD are actually encoded at 1.78:1 rather than 1.85:1 - it's a sliver of a difference and not worth monkeying around with everything over, in my opinion.

The 2.35:1 thing is a different question entirely - in theory, I like the idea, but my current housing situation just can't really accommodate a wider screen for me. But perhaps more importantly, for most uses, it's a little too wide. If you're going to play video games on your system (my fiancé uses her PS3 and PS4 on my Epson and it looks great btw), those are all going to be 16x9. Any modern television your watch will likely be 16x9. About half of the movies you'll probably watch will be 1.85:1, which is basically 16x9. 4x3 content shown within a 16x9 frame doesn't look so bad - the black bars on the side aren't that obtrusive. But 4x3 content within a 2.35:1 screen, that's a lot of extra black bars. For my viewing habits, I've found that having a 16x9 screen results in the least amount of letterboxing/pillarboxing, and smaller size black bars when necessary - if I had a 2.35:1 screen, movies in that aspect ratio would look a little better, but then I'd have black bars of some sort for almost everything else I encountered.

Last fall, I had an issue with my screen, and it needed to be replaced. For a few weeks while I was just using the wall for projection, I experimented with screen sizes, doing the 2.35:1 vs 16x9 thing, and I came away satisfied that staying with a 16x9 screen was the right choice for me at this time. For what it's worth, when I used the projector's zoom lens to increase the screen size so that a 2.35:1 movie had the same height as the 16x9 frame that had been set up (in other words, blowing up the 2.35:1 image), I didn't notice a reduction of clarity or brightness, so if that is something you decide to do, I don't think you'll notice any negative effects.

The only other suggestion I have - and this may be too low tech/too much of a pain for you to be interested - is to delay getting the screen at first, by a few days. Get your projector, have everything set up, but instead of buying an expensive screen, keep your wall white, or buy an inexpensive piece of white fabric, and simply experiment with what projection size and shape works best for you. It's one thing to do research on paper and make a decision like "I think 120" 16x9 is what works best for me" - and then it's another thing to actually see it in action. If you can live without having everything perfectly set up on Day One, using a temporary screen for the first few days will really help you visualize the differences in aspect ratios and sizes and how they actually play in your specific room.
 

Dennis Nicholls

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Get your projector, have everything set up, but instead of buying an expensive screen, keep your wall white, or buy an inexpensive piece of white fabric, and simply experiment with what projection size and shape works best for you. It's one thing to do research on paper and make a decision like "I think 120" 16x9 is what works best for me" - and then it's another thing to actually see it in action. If you can live without having everything perfectly set up on Day One, using a temporary screen for the first few days will really help you visualize the differences in aspect ratios and sizes and how they actually play in your specific room.

This advice is similar to mine about getting a cheaper projector for your first projector. Make your "learning curve mistakes" with cheaper components.

In other news, I'm in the process of integrating my new Optoma HD141X. The old mount is crappy and a new one arrives this week. Both projectors and mounts have come a long way in the past 10 years. The HD141X is an amazing value for $550.
 

DaveF

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The only other suggestion I have - and this may be too low tech/too much of a pain for you to be interested - is to delay getting the screen at first, by a few days. Get your projector, have everything set up, but instead of buying an expensive screen, keep your wall white, or buy an inexpensive piece of white fabric, and simply experiment with what projection size and shape works best for you. It's one thing to do research on paper and make a decision like "I think 120" 16x9 is what works best for me" - and then it's another thing to actually see it in action. If you can live without having everything perfectly set up on Day One, using a temporary screen for the first few days will really help you visualize the differences in aspect ratios and sizes and how they actually play in your specific room.
I agree with what you and Dennis are saying on this completely. I'll put off the screen for at least a few days, if not a few weeks at least. The projector purchase will be months ahead of the space being complete. I definitely have to play around to confirm the screen size, projector mounting location, and even play with aspect ratios. And from there decide if I want to buy cheap or get a high quality screen.
 

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