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As data caps spread, how will this affect streaming? (1 Viewer)

Brian Kidd

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I'm one of the "lucky" folks whose ISP, Suddenlink, has decided to instate data caps. You know, to "protect the quality of service for the entire network."
 

Alf S

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Speaking of...I love the new AT&T push to "Unlimited Data" ..they make it sound so glorious and such a bargain. But right there in semi-bold print on the TV ads it says thye will throttle you when you hit about 20GB.


I have their 20GB family plan and we never ever hit it, but still, sucks how they make folks think they will hit the motherload switching to "unlimited" plans.
 

Persianimmortal

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Data caps are a practical necessity, as nothing is truly unlimited, and there are a huge number of people ready to abuse services beyond sensible limits.

Here in Australia data caps have always been in place for most providers. I'm on fiber but I've only chosen a plan that has a max speed of 25mbps and a 300GB data cap. Works out just fine for me. I stream HD movies often and I rarely approach my cap. Also, the caps are slowly rising here, so when I eventually switch to 4K streaming I should be able to accommodate it.
 

Brian Kidd

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Persianimmortal said:
Data caps are a practical necessity, as nothing is truly unlimited, and there are a huge number of people ready to abuse services beyond sensible limits.

I'm curious as to your thinking. I can understand that bandwidth is somewhat constrained by limits but, nowadays, the technology is advanced and relatively inexpensive enough that even those limits aren't really an issue. The amount of actual data isn't a factor, however. That's a myth that is used by the broadband industry to justify caps and price hikes.


Here's an interesting study on the issue:


https://www.newamerica.org/oti/capping-the-nations-broadband-future/
 

Persianimmortal

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True, but the amount of data is directly related to the amount of bandwidth usage at any one time.


When data is unlimited, people will quite literally download all day and all night, and in particular try to download as many items as possible concurrently up to their max speed in order to get their downloads quicker. This behavior is best exhibited by people who pirate: they will queue up as many torrents/usenet files as possible and just leave the downloads to run in the background around the clock. And the number of people who pirate is still absolutely massive (some estimates place it in the range of 18-20% of all Internet traffic).


Even disregarding piracy, without data caps, many Netflix users would simply stream the highest possible quality, and possibly multiple streams at once, crippling available bandwidth. This has already happened in Australia: when Netflix was introduced here in March 2015, my ISP and several other big ISPs brilliantly decided to make Netflix usage exempt from counting towards data caps (i.e. "free" data usage for Netflix viewing). The result - they crippled the inadequate local Internet infrastructure and a lot of people here started complaining about severe Internet slowdowns during peak streaming periods (typically 8:30pm to 10:30pm, especially on weekends).


ideally, we will eventually move towards unlimited data, but for now a combination of human nature and inadequate infrastructure makes it impractical in many areas.
 

Brian Kidd

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You make some valid points.


I find it interesting, however, that the ISPs intentionally promote higher speeds expressly for the purpose of streaming high-quality video, while severely limiting the amount of data that can be downloaded. I could almost accept enforcing caps during peak times while allowing unlimited usage during off-peak hours. It still seems ridiculous to me.


I realize that streaming high quality video and downloading large files (which, with modern video game consoles is a necessity) uses a lot of bandwidth, but that just tells me that the cable companies need to invest in upgrading their infrastructure to meet demands. In the U.S., at least, the average Internet speeds are far below many other countries, yet we pay through the nose for it. Why? Cable companies have a monopoly in most areas. There is no incentive to improve because they can charge what they like and enforce any arbitrary fees they like without regard to quality of service or the needs of the customer. With land-line Internet connections, the technology is advanced enough that bandwidth in most places is a non-issue.


I suppose it will eventually come to a head whereby consumers complain enough to the government to force them to begin to regulate ISPs in order to open up their territories to competition. It's the only way that Internet prices and quality of service will improve in the U.S.
 

Persianimmortal

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I find the country comparisons misleading. The key reason is population density - infrastructure is always cheaper to develop in countries with dense centralized populations. Which is why South Korea is ahead of the US, and in turn the US is ahead of Australia, in terms of Internet speeds/bandwidth.

In a study of South Korea's Internet infrastructure, the International Telecommunications Union cited "unique housing patterns and high population density" as key factors behind its world-class broadband speeds. More than 60% of the population lives in apartments, and most people live within four kilometers of the local telephone office.

It's no surprise that many of the other countries and territories that have significantly faster average connection speeds than the U.S. have a much higher population density. Examples include Japan, Hong Kong, the Netherlands, and Switzerland. Other sparsely populated countries like Canada and Australia have slower average broadband speeds than the U.S.

source
 

Stan

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Not sure if this is accurate, but if you don't want data caps, go with Verizon.

They capped me at 6GB, then for $20, bumped me to 12GB, then for $15 per 1GB, kept going and going. Not a single download, didn't stream anything, but wow oh wow did they charge me. We're still in negotiations over the cost.

I think it was a major bait/switch thing and unless they work it out with me, will never see a penny. Got this great little thing called a "Hotbox". I can use my laptop anywhere, but at $400+ a month (no movies of TV shows), something is seriously wrong.

Maybe just getting a little burned out on the internet. I had no service due to a windstorm for over a month, and really didn't miss it. I think in many ways it just becomes a habit we get used to.

Even with things finally fixed, I may dump it all and just go the library once a week. A quickie rental from RedBox, Dish Network and I'm fine. No streaming, no major online presence and it's really not that bad.
 

Worth

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In Canada, things seem to be moving in the opposite direction. All of the major providers used to have hard data caps, but have recently begun offering unlimited options for an extra $10 or so per month.
 

Brian Kidd

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In Canada, things seem to be moving in the opposite direction. All of the major providers used to have hard data caps, but have recently begun offering unlimited options for an extra $10 or so per month.

I wish that was the case in the U.S. While, in my case, the data cap increased by subscribing to a more-expensive package, we ended up paying an extra $30 a month for their 550 Gb cap and still had to tell the kids today that we won't be able to use any streaming media for the next three days until our cap rolls over. Grumpy teenagers are not fun housemates. One of them asked what they were supposed to do. The look on his face when I said, "I don't know; read a book? Watch a Blu-ray or DVD? Play a video game that doesn't use online multiplayer?" suggested that I was speaking a form of Martian.

Pray they don't murder me in my sleep during the next few days.
 

David Norman

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I wish that was the case in the U.S. While, in my case, the data cap increased by subscribing to a more-expensive package, we ended up paying an extra $30 a month for their 550 Gb cap and still had to tell the kids today that we won't be able to use any streaming media for the next three days until our cap rolls over. Grumpy teenagers are not fun housemates. One of them asked what they were supposed to do. The look on his face when I said, "I don't know; read a book? Watch a Blu-ray or DVD? Play a video game that doesn't use online multiplayer?" suggested that I was speaking a form of Martian.

Pray they don't murder me in my sleep during the next few days.


How much is he chipping in for the Internet bill? I remember having to put a dime or a quarter in the plate next to the phone to make a personal call to cover the Per call/per minute fees, anything over 5 minutes cost more.

550GB per month and they're blowing the top -- I think that's half of my personal 2014 and 2015 usage combined though when my kids were home for the holidays it was scary to see my usage stats.
 

Stan

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How much is he chipping in for the Internet bill? I remember having to put a dime or a quarter in the plate next to the phone to make a personal call to cover the Per call/per minute fees, anything over 5 minutes cost more.

550GB per month and they're blowing the top -- I think that's half of my personal 2014 and 2015 usage combined though when my kids were home for the holidays it was scary to see my usage stats.

550GB sounds like a lot, but you'd be surprised at how fast you can reach that number. I read a lot of news articles online from MSN, Seattle Times, my local paper, etc. No streaming, no downloading movies or TV shows, but behind the scenes, all kinds of little videos, ads and other links are loading. No way to block them that I've discovered, but wow, they'll bump up your data usage far more than you'd expect.

Some sites are pretty decent. HTF, Facebook and some others, but be careful, you could be downloading tons of crap, never even knowing it.
 

Sam Posten

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I personally don't think it's going to be all that big a deal long term. Short term there will be pain for those in rural areas but it'll get sorted sooner than later.
 

David Norman

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550GB sounds like a lot, but you'd be surprised at how fast you can reach that number. I read a lot of news articles online from MSN, Seattle Times, my local paper, etc. No streaming, no downloading movies or TV shows, but behind the scenes, all kinds of little videos, ads and other links are loading. No way to block them that I've discovered, but wow, they'll bump up your data usage far more than you'd expect.

Some sites are pretty decent. HTF, Facebook and some others, but be careful, you could be downloading tons of crap, never even knowing it.

If they are really doing the teenage stomp about it then give them some skin in the game. If they blow the top out of the cap and end up with overcharges then they pay for it -- their choice.
 
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Stan

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You make some valid points.


I find it interesting, however, that the ISPs intentionally promote higher speeds expressly for the purpose of streaming high-quality video, while severely limiting the amount of data that can be downloaded. I could almost accept enforcing caps during peak times while allowing unlimited usage during off-peak hours. It still seems ridiculous to me.


I realize that streaming high quality video and downloading large files (which, with modern video game consoles is a necessity) uses a lot of bandwidth, but that just tells me that the cable companies need to invest in upgrading their infrastructure to meet demands. In the U.S., at least, the average Internet speeds are far below many other countries, yet we pay through the nose for it. Why? Cable companies have a monopoly in most areas. There is no incentive to improve because they can charge what they like and enforce any arbitrary fees they like without regard to quality of service or the needs of the customer. With land-line Internet connections, the technology is advanced enough that bandwidth in most places is a non-issue.


I suppose it will eventually come to a head whereby consumers complain enough to the government to force them to begin to regulate ISPs in order to open up their territories to competition. It's the only way that Internet prices and quality of service will improve in the U.S.

Had Comcast for a while, very fast, but I despise that company and canceled. Went with my phone company, CenturyLink, which is probably #2 on my list of worst companies, but not a lot of choices. DISH had a great deal for TV/phone/internet. But they contract out the phone/internet to guess who... CenturyLink.

Do not believe their ads. I get a whopping 3MBs. Luckily I don't do any major data stuff, no movies, etc. so although a bit slow, it's adequate.
 

Brian Kidd

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It's streaming media that really does it. Yes, we could throttle everything down and watch nothing but SD streams, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having 150 mbit service. I'm just very anti-data caps. I don't believe for one second that they are a necessary tool in order to be "fair". The simple truth is that Millennials use the Internet for everything. They absorb nearly all of their media via streaming services, whether it be video or audio. Data caps will only become more restrictive, the longer they are allowed to go on.
 

schan1269

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Late to this party...but I put in MediaCom(TimeWarner offshoot I think).

$60/month for 100/10 with 999g cap.

The speed is regularly clocked at 88. So, here...it pays to be rural.
 

Clinton McClure

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Unless I want satellite internet (I do not), my only option is to shell out $100/mo for a sometimes 6Mbps terrestrial line-of-sight wireless connection with no data cap. One more reason we are looking to move.
 

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