Babylon 5: The Lost Tales - Page 7

KoshN · 10-30-2007, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkHarrison

Care to refresh my memory? I don't have the book sitting in front of me right now.

The mage ship (the ship almost everybody was fooled into believing the mages were on), the Ondavi, blowing up between B5 and the jumpgate, and lots of people on B5 seeing it (including Londo and Vir), and not even the tiniest hint of a ship blowing up in The Geometry of Shadows.

In Book II, the ship the mages (well 95% of them, those not on the Ondavi maintaining the illusions) were on, was the Crystal Cabin.

Jeanne Cavelos said on Monday, March 11, 2002, after I pointed this out:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeanne Cavelos

I assumed a passage of time between the explosion of the Ondavi
and the Crystal Cabin's jump through the gate. In the book, all
you know is that, after the explosion, the Crystal Cabin is
maneuvering around the wreckage, and then we leave Elric's POV.
I assume that if a ship explodes, they're going to stop
everything for at least a few minutes before resuming normal
traffic and jumps. So the Crystal Cabin will have to wait before
jumping, giving Sheridan time to react to the explosion, along
with the rest of the C&C crew, Londo, Vir, etc. Then the Crystal
Cabin makes the jump and Sheridan goes into that speech at the
end of TGOS. Clearly, this is a passage of time that isn't shown
in the episode. Similarly, I inserted many things in the book
that weren't in the episode. If people aren't willing to allow
that things happened on B5 that weren't shown in the episode,
then they obviously aren't going to like my book, but I thought
that using that technique made the book a lot more interesting
than it would otherwise be (and also more true to the
techno-mages and their deceptive natures). Since I never show
Sheridan's speech in the book, it's never established how much
time passes between the explosion and the Crystal Cabin's
departure. Each reader can make it what he wants.

IMHO, that doesn't cut it, not at all. If something like that had happened during the episode, it would have been mentioned.

troy evans · 10-30-2007, 10:19 PM

I'm sure we'll get more "Lost Tales". Even if dvd distribution is weak in numbers there's always Sci-Fi Channel. That kind of move would give it the international network and, who knows, perhaps a new series for the B5. Wishful thinking, I know

Joseph DeMartino · 10-30-2007, 10:38 PM

Quote:

I'm sure we'll get more "Lost Tales". Even if dvd distribution is weak in numbers there's always Sci-Fi Channel. That kind of move would give it the international network and, who knows, perhaps a new series for the B5.

Nope, there isn't "always the Sci-Fi Channel." 1) WB already tried to find a TV distributor for the first Lost Tale and nobody bit. 2) Sci-Fi is now part of NBC Universal. They prefer to do shows that they own. A major reason that the passed on Legend of the Rangers and later went with Battlestar Galactica is that they didn't one the first property and did own the second.

TLT is budgeted, scheduled and designed to succeed or fail as a direct-to-dvd project. That's how it will be judged and that's how it will continue if it does.

Quote:

Joe, I'm pretty sure you were speaking in the context of First Ones vs. First Ones, but in case others thought you were speaking in the context of First Ones vs. the Younger Races, the Vorlons did unleash planet killers targeted at those who dared to side with the Shadows.

Yes, but that was after Kosh's action in "Interludes and Examinations" where he involved the Vorlon fleet in direct combat with the Shadows. The discussion was about how Kosh's decision constituted a violation of the previous rules of engagement, and what changed as a result of it. First One to First One combat and all-out attempts to exterminate Younger Races were apparently off the table for thousands of years until Kosh did what he did.

Regards,

Joe

troy evans · 10-30-2007, 11:09 PM

Wow, Thanks Joe. I had no understanding of the behind the scenes on that level. Well, here's to hoping dvd market gets the numbers to keep making more. I'd be happy to get them on an annual basis, but, would hope they could extend the feature length a bit. One thing about B5 that's unlike other shows is it's written so well that when people are just standing around talking it's still engaging. So, if they extended it merely for dialog I'd be content.

KoshN · 10-31-2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph DeMartino

Nope, there isn't "always the Sci-Fi Channel." 1) WB already tried to find a TV distributor for the first Lost Tale and nobody bit.

Hmmm.
From San Diego Comic-Con 2006, 7/22/2006

From that link (emphasis is mine):

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMS on rastb5m

WB: “Do you want to do something else? Whatever you want to do, let’s do.”

So I thought about it and I came back to them and said, “Here’s what I’m thinking. When we did Babylon 5, what I liked were the small little stories that we did as ‘B’ plots and as short stories. What if we did a whole bunch of short films? Little mini-movies, each one worked around established B5 characters, not somebody else. One that’s worked around Sheridan, one that’s worked around Delenn, one that’s worked around Lochley or Garibaldi or whoever it is, and put these things out on DVDs and sell them to networks, whatever you want to do, make them short stories. An anthology show set in the Babylon 5 universe. They said, “Okay.” We already have a network that wants to carry them, by the way. We’re negotiating with them now. In addition to the network who wants to broadcast them, put them on DVD, three per DVD and sell them and build up an inventory of these: Babylon 5: the Lost Tales, basing a lot of them on stories I had for the series but never had a chance to actually put into gear-a bunch of different stories I never had time to produce.

So, it doesn't look like "nobody bit" but rather that everybody's waiting for the "build up" of "an inventory", and that hinges on Warner Brothers making a decision to do more B5: The Lost Tales DVDs.

And as usual, we wait.....................

Oops, one more thing, about B5:TLT sales:

Date: 9/5/2007 2:52:58 AM

From that link:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMS on rastb5m

However, despite this, they are most pleased as sales have been
several orders of magnitude beyond what they anticipated.

More on this when I know more about what this actually *means*.

MarkHarrison · 10-31-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN

The mage ship (the ship almost everybody was fooled into believing the mages were on), the Ondavi, blowing up between B5 and the jumpgate, and lots of people on B5 seeing it (including Londo and Vir), and not even the tiniest hint of a ship blowing up in The Geometry of Shadows.

It's been a couple years since I've seen that episode. I'd have to watch it again to compare with the book. But nothing stood out to me when I read that passage.

Sam Favate · 10-31-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qui-Gon John

I still think the Legions Of Fire Centauri Trilogy would make a great mini-series. Of course, you'd have to have a new G'Kar and Franklin, difficult but doable, like they had to replace Dumbledore in HP.

Those roles will never be recast, and I give JMS a lot of credit for that. However, that said, this is the one story I most wanted to see filmed. I always felt it was the biggest loose thread from the series.

KoshN · 10-31-2007, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkHarrison

It's been a couple years since I've seen that episode. I'd have to watch it again to compare with the book. But nothing stood out to me when I read that passage.

"The Passing of the Technomages" intersects intimately with three episodes of Babylon 5:

The Geometry of Shadows
Interludes and Examinations
and
Z'ha'dum.

It pays to refer to each of these episodes as you read the trilogy, especially if it's been a long time since you've seen those episodes. Luckily, watching episodes of B5 is no chore. Just compare pages 318-321 of Book 2, to the events of "The Geometry of Shadows":

1. Sheridan being notified, at Garibaldi's welcome back dinner, of the mage ship requesting departure authorization, and Sheridan excusing himself to go to C&C.

2. Sheridan, in C&C, saying "Permission granted."

and

3. The ship (had to be the Crystal Cabin, according to the books) enters the jumpgate, and leaves peacefully (no explosions).

The Ondavi (ship that exploded) was only a minute ahead of the Crystal Cabin on the way to the jumpgate (Book 2, pg. 319, top). They were in sight of each other approaching the jumpgate.

John Sheridan in C&C, and Londo and Vir (via monitor) saw the Ondavi explode (Book 2, pg. 320, top).

We never got a sense of any of that in the episode, and it would have happened between Sheridan saying "Permission granted." and the ship leaving peacefully through the jumpgate, and those scenes were only a second apart in the episode. If the Ondavi, the first ship had exploded on the way to the gate, with the Crystal Cabin only a minute behind, wouldn't we have seen something of the explosion in the episode?

If it had gone down:
1. "Permission granted." (to the Ondavi). Book 2, pg. 318 middle.
2. "Permission granted." (to the Crystal Cabin).
We see 1 or 2 in the episode.

3. Ondavi explodes. Book 2, pg. 319.
4. Sheridan, Londo and Vir react to the explosion. Book 2, pg. 320.
5. Crystal Cabin maneuvers around the wreckage. Book 2, pg. 321 top.
6. Crystal Cabin leaves peacefully through the jumpgate. ...which we see in the ep.

If we see 1 or 2, and 6 in the episode, wouldn't we have also seen 3, 4 & 5?

To avoid problems, the Ondavi should have exploded in hyperspace, far enough away from Babylon 5 for nobody on Babylon 5, except possibly Mr. Morden (through his Shadow connections), to know about it.

SPOILER for The Passing of the Technomages, Book 3, Page 249+:
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I've got no problem with Galen on Z'ha'dum (e.g. Book 3, pg. 296, lines 8 thru 12), because it doesn't get that close to contradicting what was seen on TV.

Qui-Gon John · 10-31-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Favate

Those roles will never be recast, and I give JMS a lot of credit for that. However, that said, this is the one story I most wanted to see filmed. I always felt it was the biggest loose thread from the series.

I would so love to see this part of the story made into some kind of movie, (TV Movie, Mini-Series, Direct To DVD, what have you). This material is so great and bridges the gap so well, from Londo becoming Emperor and taking on the keeper, to the future events in War Without End, to Vir's ultimate succession to the throne. I can understand all the sentiment against recasting those roles, but IMHO, the story is so great, it could withstand this. Also, Franklin and G'Kar are not major players in that trilogy, (I'm taking screen time, not significance ... obviously G'Kar is very significant to Londo's story, but really not a lot of actual screen time needed ... not like Londo, Vir, Senna, Mariel, Durla, Rem Lanas, Renegar, the technomages, etc.)

And of course, I'd never consider recasting if the 2 actors were still alive. I just feel this is such a great story and so needs to be seen, that it could handle the recasting. Much as Dumbledore was recast out of necessity.