Help design the new Behringer Sub Equalizer BSE2496C to replace the BFD...

Sonnie Parker · 02-07-2006, 03:05 PM

I'm posting this info in this forum because there appears to be more posts related to the BFD here than any other forum here on HTF.

I have spoken with Behringer and they have shown serious interest in designing a replacement for the BFD that is more suited to the consumer market. As many of you may already know... the DSP1124 has been discontinued. The replacement FBQ2496 only offers 1 preset and still doesn't get us many of the needed features for a total sub eq package.

This is not something to necessarily compete with the Velo SMS-1. We are trying to keep the street price around $150-200, which includes a built-in mic amp with phantom power and a built-in SPL meter... the recommended Behringer ECM8000 mic would be extra if you need one (~$50 at Parts Express). We would continue to recommend using RoomEQ Wizard as the software program of choice due to its increasing and overwhelming popularity.

This is something we are pretty optimistic about. Keep in mind that the consumer HT world is what put the BFD on the map. Therefore Behringer has interest.

At this point in time we have no set time frame as to when we could expect this unit to hit the shelves. After the suggested features are submitted we hope to get a general idea of a time frame. Behringer has many of these features already incorporated in their various products, so we are hoping it would not be a long drawn out process.

Here are the features we are considering at present. We are looking for suggestions, comments, recommendations, etc. Remember to keep in mind the target street price. KISS!

Proposal for the BSE2496C (Behringer Sub Equalizer 24/96 Consumer)

The consumer home theater world has for several years used the BFD DSP1124P as a parametric sub eq to level out the response of their sub(s). The unit has been extremely popular and continues to be the popular choice for sub equalization, where it can be found, being that it has been recently discontinued.

We are basing the BSE2496C (Behringer Sub EQ 24/96 Consumer) on similarities to several of your products such as the former DSP1124, the current FBQ2496, DEQ2496 and DCX2496, none of which fit our needs precisely. Following is a list of features in four categories, the first being features in the DSP1124 and/or the FBQ2496 that we would like to keep as they are. Second are the essential features we would like, as well as several requested changes from the current BFD units. These are what we consider the must haves, if at all possible. Third are features/changes that we would like, but could live without if we just had too, although we believe they should have a minimal cost factor and might be easier included than we think. Fourth are features available in other Behringer models or new features that we would like to be considered, but could be reserved for a second higher-end model if they will cause the target unit to exceed our target price.

We are not requesting a software program due to the free availability of the RoomEQ Wizard program. The target price we would like to see is $200-250 retail which will allow for a street price of approximately $150-200. It is imperative that we keep the cost to a minimum, as this is and always has been the driving force behind BFD sales in the home theater world. The majority of BFD 1124 owners were able to acquire their unit for $100-125.

Features on the DSP1124 and/or FBQ2496 we would like to keep:
~ Two independent channels.
~ A minimum of twelve parametric filters per channel (20 per channel is good too).
~ Channel coupling and series looping.
~ Three-way IN/OUT bypass.
~ Input/output LED level indicators.
~ LED filter indicators for both channels.
~ Front panel display.
~ Retain normal required buttons and jog dial.
~ 24-bit/96 kHz A/D and D/A converter powered by a 32-bit DSP.
~ Internal switch-mode power supply (100 - 240 V~ / 50-60hz).
~ Low power consumption.
~ Adjustable input level (-10dBV / +4dBu) on rear.
~ Hard bypass relay.
~ Noise-free.
~ 107db dynamic range.
~ 0.007% THD.
~ High-quality components.
~ High-quality construction.
~ Balanced XLR inputs/outputs.
~ One year warranty.

Essential features and changes that we would like and should have a very minimal cost factor:
~ Soft power ON/OFF with selectable Auto-On detect via sub signal.
~ Eliminate turn-on thump and ground hum.
~ Double insulated chassis with a two prong plug or a ground lift switch if needed to eliminate hum.
~ Pure flat frequency response from 10hz to 20khz* (FBQ2496 is -3db @ 20hz).
~ Filter adjustment capabilities from 10hz to 20khz*.
~ Adjustable gain range from -24db to +16db for each filter.
~ Minimum of 4 to 6 memory presets.
~ Replace ¼ inch inputs/outputs with RCA inputs/outputs.
~ Simple shelf filter… (i.e. selectable linear boost between two selectable frequencies).
~ Selectable and/or variable 6db-48db/octave subsonic roll-off filter from 35hz to 10hz (minimum 5hz increments).
~ Time delay from 0 to 30msec or 1 foot increments w/ 0.1 foot fine up to 30 feet.
~ Variable phase correction/adjustment from 0-180.
~ Front panel USB and/or RS-232 interface for MIDI port (place under small flip cover like on computers).
~ Dimmable front panel LED’s / lights with OFF option.
~ Soft blue and/or green LED’s on front panel vs. red.
~ Offer unit in black or silver… if not optional, offer only in black.
~ Revamp chassis for home theater consumer appearance vs. pro-audio style.
~ Allow mounting brackets to be optional (include unattached).
~ Enclose/fill gaps on sides if mounting brackets are removed.
~ Add rubber feet to allow placement on top of other equipment.
~ Remove graphic design from top of unit.

* If it will save cost, limiting the upper frequency response and filter capabilities to 400hz is acceptable.

With the above features and changes this unit should sell like a hot potato at a steak house. We believe these are reasonable features for a street priced unit at $150-200.

Requested features/changes that won’t make or break the unit, but would be nice to have if minimal cost factor:
~ Anti-clipping mechanism with higher dynamic peak input before clipping.
~ Frequency readout in hertz instead of base + fine… (1hz increments w/ 0.1hz fine increments).
~ Bandwidth readout in octaves (1/3,1/6,1/24,1/1, etc.) or hertz (2hz,5hz,12hz,etc.) instead of 1/60, 10/60, 60/60, etc.
~ Front panel volume/gain to control output level to sub.
~ Ability to slave multiple units together.
~ Linkwitz transform circuit.
~ Detachable power cord.

Next are the more elaborate features that you already have in some of your units, plus a few other added requested features, but we are uncertain as to the cost of these features and whether it would cause the new unit to exceed our target street price of $150-200. It may be that we could stand a street price of $250 (retail $299) with these extra features. We assume it would depend on your cost to integrate them into the new unit. Or if feasible, offer the above in one unit and add these features to another unit at a higher cost.

Elaborate requested features with unknown cost factor for implementation (in order of relevance):
~ Individual crossover filters (Butterworth, Bessel, Linkwitz-Riley) per channel w/ selectable roll-off 6db-48db/octave.
~ Adjustable/variable crossover range (low pass and high pass from 20hz to 200hz and w/ bypass).
~ Built-in RTA mic/line input w/ phantom power and w/ GAIN control.
~ Built-in SPL meter with selectable dBA/dBC/OFF weighting.
~ Built-in test tones (sinewaves – individual 1hz increments and sweep from 5hz to 400hz or 5hz to 20khz).
~ Separate RCA mic monitoring and test tone output to allow for computer program monitoring.
~ Locate RTA mic/line inputs and RCA monitoring outputs on the front face plate under a small flip cover.
~ Video output for monitoring the display would be nice, but the cost factor may prohibit this.
~ Video display instead of LED’s… (dimmable and selectable OFF).
~ Small and simple 6 button wireless IR remote with discrete ON/OFF buttons and Preset 1,2,3,4 buttons.
~ Rear IR jack for remote control… to use with repeaters.
~ Add volume/gain control button to remote if feature is made available.
~ Add other control buttons to remote if cost feasible.
~ Fully integrated software program (something similar to RoomEQ Wizard).
~ Auto-EQ (with ability to manually adjust suggested filters).

NOTE: I do not work for Behringer or anyone else. When I say "we" this and "we" that... I am referring to what the majority has voiced thus far. Just like I have never been paid for the BFD GUIDE or the BFD FORUM... I am not getting paid to do this. It is because of the GUIDE and FORUM that I have a strong voice with Behringer, but it is because of YOU and the HT world that we can have the opportunity to have a new product designed. It won't get to market because of me... it will succeed because of you. It will benefit me no more than anyone else that has interest... but it is fun and it will be a huge benefit to all of us looking for such a product.

Thanks!

Dustin B · 02-07-2006, 03:16 PM

That sounds fantastic. My only suggestions were going to be a subsonic filter and phase adjustments and you have them both there.

If they build the unit you described above, they've got one definite sale from me.

John Garcia · 02-07-2006, 05:30 PM

Wow, based on what you said, that already has just about everything I'd want too. I agree, a SS filter might be a good thing. I already have that on my plate amp with my current sub, but nobody says that will be my last sub

I actually don't mind how the current ones look, but making it more "consumer" looking wouldn't be a bad thing. Remote control for primary functions sounds great too, so it can be macro controlled (bypass and presets controlled?), as well as 12v triggered.

SethH · 02-07-2006, 05:33 PM

If it would save on costs, I think the built-in SPL meter could be dropped. I know that the RS meter isn't ideal, but there is always the option to buy a better one. It'd be nice to have it in there, but I think it could go if needed to get the right price.

If they announced this product tomorrow I would probably be putting my order in.

SteveCallas · 02-07-2006, 09:21 PM

You already got a response from me at AVS, but I'll repeat that this would be a great product and I'd definitely buy one. Just make sure the high pass filter is adjustable from 10hz-25hz, preferably in small increments. A 15hz high pass as the lowest setting is no good.

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JimPeitersen · 02-07-2006, 11:16 PM

I'll post here as well. Keep it under $200 and this product will be very, very popular!
JP

PaulT · 02-07-2006, 11:17 PM

I'd replace my BFD in a minute with one with the features you list in your OP.

Call it the BSE2496SP (Sonnie Parker) !

Sonnie Parker · 02-07-2006, 11:58 PM

A man with my heart at mind...

I like that name! lol

Kevin C Brown · 02-08-2006, 01:31 AM

Crap, I need to read this thread in more detail later ...

But one irritant I always had with the 2 BFD's I had, was the turn on thump when you power it up. Put a relay in there to delay output until that thump has passed.

Also, their QC isn't the best. The 1124 I had buzzed. Tightening all the screws of the case helped, but didn't eliminate it entirely.

Display should be dimmable.

Somehow integrate test tones with it.

Make it *high quality* 24/96, and then people might even be willing to play with it for main speakers.

More later...

Sonnie Parker · 02-08-2006, 02:03 AM

Hey Kevin... definitely go over the suggestions. A couple of your concerns are already addressed. We are not recommending it for mains... just strictly a sub eq, but it will be 24/96... hence the name BSE2496C.

I haven't heard too much with QC... as a matter fact, out of the literally 100's and 100's of users I've come in contact with, I can't remember any that have had QC problems. I'm sure there's been a few folks that have had a problem here and there though... that would be expected... but overall I believe they have a pretty good track record.

Why would you want integrated test tones? Are you not using RoomEQ Wizard? It makes life much easier with the BFD. It's pretty much a given to use REW now, which includes a sweep and individual test tones, measures the full 1/60 resolution, suggest filters, and will load filters into the BFD. It also loads correction values and a will load a house curve to be used as a target response. Pretty much as good as Auto-EQ too, except you can tweak it til next week if you want. You might want to check it out...