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Home Theater Forum > Home Theater Hardware > Speakers and Subwoofers
[ The importance of measuring your sub+room response ]

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Old 05-31-2004, 05:50 PM   #1 of 73
Ned
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I was at a friend's place on Sunday to do some measurements of his SVS 16-46CS+. He has a decent size room, about 15x25 with 8' ceilings. He has 3 rows of seats and currently 6 chairs (1/3/2 from front to back). His SVS is in the back of the theater, in a corner.

I don't have the spreadsheets we saved (will get later hopefully), but here are my approximations of the results.

Chair at the front. The approximate db range from the lowest dip to highest peak was 13db. A total rollercoaster response.



Chair in the middle. Virtually perfect, until we hit the 50hz tone and the needle fell 20db! The null began at 40hz and ended at about 63hz. You can imagine how this would sound. Everything outside the null is perfect, then a drumbeat or guitar string hits 50hz and you hear almost nothing.



The third chair I measured was in the 3rd row, right side, nearest of all chairs to the SVS. It didn't have any big dips as I recall but it was peaky at 40-70hz. Didn't sound great subjectively.

Now imagine this is your room. Depending where you sit the SVS sounds like 3 different subs. None of the spots measured well. You would probably think the SVS "is overrated" and would wonder what all the fuss is about.

Before we measured, I listened to the first 3 minutes of Toy Story 2 in various chairs. Some spots had no deep bass at all, others were muddy/boomy, the chairs at the back had some nice deep bass but were clouded by the 40-70hz range, the front chair just sounded lousy (see the rollercoaster curve approximation).

Actually measuring and seeing a plot is invaluable and IMO, absolutely required for anyone with a decent sub. Our next line of attack will be to test different sub placements as well as adding a 2nd 16-46CS+ and a Behringer FD to help smooth out the peaks once we find a good sub position.
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Old 05-31-2004, 05:54 PM   #2 of 73
Ned
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I used Chris Tsutsui's spreadsheet, which has corrections builtin for the radio shack meter.

splcompensator.xls(40kb)

Tones were generated with NCHTonegen
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Old 05-31-2004, 08:54 PM   #3 of 73
Brian Fellmeth
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Perfect illustration of why its silly to "calibrate" the sub level to withen 1 or 2 db of the mains using any source of bass noise.
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Old 05-31-2004, 10:19 PM   #4 of 73
ChrisWiggles
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No.

IT's a perfect example of why it's silly to try to do so in an untreated room. This is classic bass response in most rooms. Bass traps will help this a lot, as well as EQ once you've got some good bass absorption going on in the room.

Know that an EQ won't help the deep nulls. Treat, then EQ.
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Old 05-31-2004, 10:50 PM   #5 of 73
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
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Quote:
He has a decent size room, about 15x25 with 8' ceilings.
I have found that rectangular rooms with all walls parallel (and the ceiling and floor parallel, too) are extremely difficult in this respect. The bass intensifies the closer to the walls you move, and it can sound pretty weak in the dead-center of the room.

Consequently I don't think I would ever build a dedicated room that was rectangular with parallel walls.

Quote:
...as well as adding a 2nd 16-46CS+
Be sure and keep the receipt. A second sub will very likely make things even worse.

Quote:
Know that an EQ won't help the deep nulls.
Likewise, know that not all under-represented areas are nulls. Those can be equalized.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt


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Old 06-01-2004, 12:54 AM   #6 of 73
ChrisBee
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quote:

"...as well as adding a 2nd 16-46CS+"

"Be sure and keep the receipt. A second sub will very likely make things even worse."



I wouldn't worry unduly. Add another 16-46CS+ and the walls won't be parallel for much longer!

ChrisBee
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Old 06-01-2004, 01:13 AM   #7 of 73
Kevin C Brown
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In my room without an eq, that's about what I got: +/- 7.5 dB. Which sounds huge, until you realize that most rooms are like that (sub in a corner). I have just one filter on my BFD enabled, and I got it down to +/- 5 dB. I can get down to +/- 3.5 dB with 5 filters engaged, but I went with "simpler is better." Good enough for me.

One thing to think about is that depending on how you measure, there *are* differences between steady state tones (which allow the room nodes to build up), and transients which don't.



If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ...
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Old 06-01-2004, 09:00 AM   #8 of 73
Mark Seaton
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Quote:
Consequently I don't think I would ever build a dedicated room that was rectangular with parallel walls.


Wayne, any chance you can tell us how much you need those walls to slope to actually have a real effect on the modal distribution... Of course then is it really any improvement or just a change? One argument is that a rectangular room is much easier to understand and optomize with placement and treatment changes.

Quote:
Be sure and keep the receipt. A second sub will very likely make things even worse.


I would point out that there is more evidence to the contrary, but it does require appropriate placement. Random placement of a pair of subwoofers will not necessarily help things, and can certainly make things worse. Both corner and other distributed placements have merit and appropriate applications. It is more important to understand how different options will alter the performance. Likewise, EQ is a great help for low frequency performance, but trying to a single measurement location without checking what is going on elsewhere in the room can yeild very odd or suprising results.



Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
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Old 06-01-2004, 09:19 AM   #9 of 73
Joe Mihok
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Quote:
No.

IT's a perfect example of why it's silly to try to do so in an untreated room. This is classic bass response in most rooms. Bass traps will help this a lot, as well as EQ once you've got some good bass absorption going on in the room.

Know that an EQ won't help the deep nulls. Treat, then EQ.

I'm curious, what's a bass trap ? I've got some dips in my room as well and plan on buying a BFD. If I can do more to flatten out the response then I would love to know how .
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