WANTED: punchier bass for music, more of what I have for movies (SVS)

Sheldon C · 05-31-2004, 10:12 AM

Ok, I am finally in the position to upgrade my sub. I have been using a 20-39 pci for the past year and a half in a basement room that is 18x23x8 with no openings.

For movies I like the sub. What I want now is more headroom down low so it won't sound strained or stay at the same volume regardless if I bump up the gain or master volume. I am getting 107 to 108 peaks on the loudest bass scenes on a radio shack meter uncorrected, sub corner loaded about 14 feet away. I would like to get that up to over 115 (uncorrected) if possible, not that I would use that all the time I just want to know the power is there.

For music I am becoming more and more dissatisfied with my sub. It sounds good and it has a very full sound but I would like something with more "punch" to it. I can honestly say that I have never felt the bass in my chest from either movies or music from the svs.

I listen to music more often that I watch movies, but I think they are both equally important to me if that makes sense. I would say that I am about 75/25 music. I am not saying that I want to go back to the sound of my old sub which was a 15" cerwin vega, it was boomy and loose sounding. I think I just want something that has more upper bass and that sounds tight and clear.

So, to sum it up I have 1000 dollars to spend and I want more of what I already have for movies, and punchier bass for music. I don't want to sell the pci, I would like to keep it and use it with whatever I decide to buy.

Sheldon C · 05-31-2004, 10:16 AM

Oh, by the way I have axiom speakers all the way around with m60's for the mains. I listen to music in 2 channel only unless it's a multichannel dvd-audio.

Craig Chase · 05-31-2004, 10:22 AM

Sheldon - For a $1000... Grab a PB2-ISD, stand it up, take off the bass plate, and put it behind you in a corner...

You WILL feel bass...

Sheldon C · 05-31-2004, 10:35 AM

Thanks for the advice Craig,

so you think a corner behind me is better than a front corner? Why is that?

Also, what would be the best way to integrate the pci with the pb2 as far as placement and movies/music?

Craig Chase · 05-31-2004, 10:44 AM

Sheldon, Usually the corner behind you is closer to you, which allows for the bass to less affected by the room itself. In fact, you may want to try the subwoofer directly behind you... especially if you have an EQ and can boost the 30 to 50 Hz range by 3-4 dB ... Those are the "sock you in the gut" frequencies ...

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Sheldon C · 05-31-2004, 10:51 AM

ok, that makes sense, thanks.

Yeah, the pbs isd is what I have been thinking about getting for a long time, it's just that recently I've been reading a lot about how some people prefer other subs other than svs for their "punchy" bass.

Do you think the pb2 with the bass plate off would sound better than a pci 20-39 if they were calibrated the same? How would both of those compare to the rocket sub?

Phil Iturralde · 05-31-2004, 11:01 AM

I use a SVS 25-31PCi in my 20' x 30' HT/family Room and I calibrated my PCM (2-ch CD music) and LFE using the Yamaha two sub controls, ...

1) SWFR (for PCM 2-ch)
2) LFE

Since SWFR will effect the LFE, I adjust the SWFR first using my favorite Music Jazz CD's. Once that was set, I don't touch that adjustment again.

Next, I run my Dolby Labs dedicated DD-EX LFE test tone, and adjust it until it's approx. 77 dB AVG (lowest needle swing 76 dB / highest 78 dB)

Now, when I play my 2-channel Jazz Music CD's, I get the punch and lower bass fundamentals like when we played live @ the various clubs. The SVS is super since it clearly plays all the bass instruments 2nd & 3rd harmonic fundamentals, making it easy to hear the difference between the bass drum, electric base and upright acoustic bass instruments!!! -

Switching modes to play my DVD's, the encoded LFE is perfectly balanced and the SVS 25-31PCi easily moves the floor, air, wall, couch, pant-leg(s) @ all my seating locations @ -10 dB below REF Level (approx. 105/106 dB Fast LFE SPL Peaks - RS Dial 100 / Weight = C / Speed = FAST uncorrected)

FYI: Read my detailed Yamaha RX-V1300 Calibration webpage.

Hopefully, you can set the those two subwoofer levels (SWFR [PCM] / LFE) so when you switch between your 2-channel CD's & DVD's, you get that impressive air & pant-leg moving bass foundation support like I do!!!

Phil

Craig Chase · 05-31-2004, 11:02 AM

Sheldon, The response of the SVS is tailored to the really deep stuff. A PB2 (either model) that is putting out 100 dB at 30 Hz will typically be doing 98 dB at 40 Hz, and 105 dB at 20 Hz... A 3-4 dB boost in the 40 Hz band will give it that added "punch" in that area. Think Kick drums typically having a fundamental in the 40 Hz range, and Bass Guitar's low E being 42 Hz...

Can you do so with the pci you have now? Sure, but not with the ease of the box. Do you have an eq now ?

Edward J M · 05-31-2004, 11:20 AM

1) No need to yank the baseplate if you have the floor space.

2) Definitely co-locate the PB2-ISD and the 20-39PCi, preferably in a corner.

3) Run the PB2-ISD in the 20 Hz tune.

4) Set the phase the same for each sub.

5) Initially set the subwoofer channel level control a bit higher than normal (maybe 0), to give yourself a bunch of downward adjustability.

6) Individually calibrate each sub, and set the PB2-ISD about 5 dB hotter (verify with Tom V) than the 20-39PCi. In this manner, they should both reach their clean output limits at about the same point.

For example, if you are using Avia, set the 20-39PCi to say 80 dB, and then set the PB2-ISD to 85 dB.

7) Now with both subs running, use the subwoofer channel level control to adjust the overall (i.e., combined) subwoofer level to your normal calibration setting (say 85 dB with Avia).

Ed