The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews - Page 6

buford2 · 06-12-2008, 09:33 AM

But what changed between season 1 and season 2?

buford2 · 06-12-2008, 09:35 AM

Well, at least we got 1 of the seasons intact.

Hollywoodaholic · 06-12-2008, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parker Clack

... What if this suddenly made the disc set $150 instead of $30 or $40 how many do you think they would sell? And then the studios wouldn't release future sets because nobody bought them.

So they are in between a rock and a hard place. Put out the product at a price point that people are willing to pay with modifications or at a price point nobody would pay just because they have to recoup what they have had to pay out in royalities to do so.

We may not like it but this is what the studios are up against especially with everyone and his brother wanting a piece of the royality pie. And music rights to older TV shows and Movies have gone out of the roof in fees. Parker

Perhaps the studio could release a high-priced "Collector's Edition" in the future of the entire series with the original music intact. I'm sure there would be a market for it based on the passions we've caught only a glimpse of on this thread. When you see the prices "unofficial" sets have sold at on series, it's no stretch to think the fan base of The Fugitive would pay premiums for the right stuff. And casual fans can still buy the mass market versions with the altered music.

TheGreatOz · 06-12-2008, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buford2

But what changed between season 1 and season 2?

Someone woke up from a 40-year nap and saw gas has gone from .29/gal to $4.29/gal.

Seriously, that's the question we're all scratching our heads over.
Hopefully, the answer will be forthcoming.

TheGreatOz · 06-12-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein

I do know that Fox took forever to
release WKRP in Cincinnati because of royalty issues and
in the end I believe they ended up having to change a lot of the music.

At the risk of sharpening this to too fine a point, Ron, I'm not talking about popular songs like "I'll Remember April" needle-dropped in six Fugitive episodes or "I'll Never Smile Again" in five Fugitive episodes. I'll grant you those command big money for release rights. But even resuming royalties to Pete Rugolo or MGM, originally performed on a buy-out for $5,000, would not quadruple Season 2's list price.

Michael Reuben · 06-12-2008, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatOz

With all due respect, even digging up Beethoven and paying him royalties with interest wouldn't hike the price of a 4-DVD set from $40 to $150. Let's be realistic.

Sometimes it's not a matter of money. It's a matter of getting someone with a clear right to grant the license. If there's a dispute as to who holds the rights, you can't get a "clean" license and you can't use the material without the risk of being sued by everyone claiming the rights.

I have no idea whether such a situation exists here, but it happens a lot more often than people realize. Best to wait and see what information Gord Lacey can elicit.

M.

John DeAngelis · 06-12-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gord Lacey

The problem is that studios retreat when they attacked by a group of fans, and then they're less likely to talk about ANYTHING related to the set in question, and are more likely to issue a vague statement.

With all due respect, Gord, it seems to me that the problem is that a company hid the fact that they altered their product. They deceived the very consumers that bought the first season of "The Fugitive" and who were ready to continue buying subsequent seasons of the show. What kind of business practice is that? And as far as them being more likely to issues a vague statement, they already made a vague statement on the DVD package when they said the soundtrack was restored. I agree that it's always best to state your case in a civilized fashion, but this whole problem was caused by Paramount.

TheGreatOz · 06-12-2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Reuben

Sometimes it's not a matter of money.

Exactly my point. There's no need to speculate that a DVD release with nearly all the original music would even be possible now for The Fugitive, much less costing 4x or 5x the current MSRP.

Consumers get upset when their favorite movie's soundtrack has songs missing that were licensed ONLY for theatrical release. Example, "There Used To Be A Playground" was exorcised from the soundtrack CD of A LEAGUE OF THEIR OWN.
Granted, there was a disclaimer on the CD's back notes.

I think we all understand that if there was the possibility of having the original score in Season 2, it would be there...not reserved for some astronomically priced "Collector's Edition."

"The deluxe model Cadillac comes with -round- tires instead of -square- tires!"

When you think about it, why the heck are there at least -THREE- box sets of The Twilight Zone and we can't get even -ONE- original set of The Fugitive?

Harry-N · 06-12-2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein

I would bet the farm that all of this has to do with licensing fees.
This is not the first time that a studio has been forced to change
background music due to exorbitant royalty fees. This happens
often with classic television since nobody had the foresight to see
that their shows would one day be rereleased on video so none of
these license agreements were ever put into contracts.

If this were Season One and it was handled this way, I could almost understand it. I know that music rights can be a tricky issue to resolve, but there are some facts here that are just too confounding to wrap my brain around:

This is Season Two we're talking about. Season Two was no different from Season One in regards to the music - and all of Rugolo's underscore cues were used and issued on Season One DVD sets.
Pete Rugolo composed the music for his cues based only on a script of the pilot. From that he got an understanding of what would be needed for the series and proceeded to compose and arrange a variety of styles using the main theme(s). John Elizalde and Ken Wilhoit handled the use of his cues within the series proper which were recorded in England by the London Studio Symphony Orchestra. According to the CD credits, the music is published by EMI Unart Catalog Inc (BMI). If any of this is some kind of no-no for DVD use, then how was it done for Season One? Is CBS/Paramount right now being sued for the use of the music in Season One?
Other music used in the show were cues from TWILIGHT ZONE and GUNSMOKE, and both should already be the property of CBS. These were also used in Season One and appear on the DVDs. OUTER LIMITS cues weren't used until the Fourth Season, from what I've gathered here, so that shouldn't be a factor.

I can't fault CBS/Paramount fully for their tiny verbiage on the back of the package. It does say the music has been changed. It just doesn't say how much, and that's perhaps a little misleading based on the prior season releases.

I really hope we can get an honest picture of what's going on here, and I'm encouraged that contacts are being made in that regard.

Harry

Michael Reuben · 06-12-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatOz

Exactly my point.

No it's not, because you took my quote out of context.

My point is that there are any number of possible reasons for the music substitutions, and most of them are neither evil nor irrational. So it would be good idea to curb the rhetoric and not further poison the well for people who are trying to get some hard facts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John De Angelis

but this whole problem was caused by Paramount.

But that's not really the issue, is it? The issue is what to do to fix the problem (if it can be fixed at all). And a lot of this thread has been a textbook example of how to do everything wrong. I'm reminded of that great line from Detective Somserset in Se7en (from memory, so it may not be exact):

Quote:

It's impressive to see a grown man feeding off his emotions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry-N

Season Two was no different from Season One in regards to the music

But maybe the contractual and rights issues were different. Wouldn't be the first time. Let's wait for the answer to Gord's inquiry.

M.

Ockeghem · 06-12-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywoodaholic

Perhaps the studio could release a high-priced "Collector's Edition" in the future of the entire series with the original music intact. I'm sure there would be a market for it based on the passions we've caught only a glimpse of on this thread. When you see the prices "unofficial" sets have sold at on series, it's no stretch to think the fan base of The Fugitive would pay premiums for the right stuff. And casual fans can still buy the mass market versions with the altered music.

Hollywood,

Assuming all things remain equal, I like this idea a lot. For my own part, I would pay $150 per season for TOS if a similar situation existed with that series. However, if The Fugitive is eventually released in its entirety intact (all music as aired), do you think that this might change your premise somewhat? In other words, if whatever is broken is fixed, then would there be a need for a Collector's Edition?* I'm just asking the question.

*I'm beginning to think that distributors (or whomever constitute TPTB in such cases), if they read what you've written here and had the power to act on it, might consider this to be a win-win (IMO). Perhaps they are already engaged in this, and I don't realize it.