The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews - Page 4

Harry-N · 06-11-2008, 12:40 PM

deleted - erroneous post

Carabimero · 06-11-2008, 01:43 PM

Yesterday, the Amazon sales ranking was in the 120s. Today it has dropped to the 180s. Nice to see, but still much too good of a ranking to suit me. Currently on 9 reviews since street date, but all 1-star.

Whoever thought I'd say that about my favorite TV series of all time.

Still blue.

Peter M Fitzgerald · 06-11-2008, 02:14 PM

I just found out about this abomination today, on this and a couple of other forums, and am alternately dumbfounded and livid. I had just ordered the set via DD's big "20% off" sale yesterday, but when it arrives in my mailbox, it's going right back, unopened.

This sickens me (both the change, and the sneaky way it was done), and what also makes me ill are all the crappy shows (I won't list them, so as not to offend their fans here) that are (and will be) released intact, while this cornerstone of classic tv drama now gets the fuzzy end of the lollipop stick, after a reasonably sterling (albeit no-frills) release of the first season.

The industry precedent set by this total soundtrack switch doesn't exactly inspire a warm, joyful feeling inside me, either...

Hollywoodaholic · 06-11-2008, 02:15 PM

Speaking of Dominic Frontiere, is this Outer Limits soundtrack release from La-La-Land Records mentioned on this thread a new release of Outer Limits music or is it the same release as the 1993 Crescendo release? Inquiring TOL fans want to know. Thanks.

We now return control of this thread to your regularly-scheduled Fugitive frustrations.

TheGreatOz · 06-11-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PianoPlayer

It would be interesting to get original Fugitive producers Alan A. Armer and George Eckstein (both still living) to make a statement like, "This isn't The Fugitive we produced. Please remove our names from these DVD prints."

CBS will have no problem faking more bogus credits like those inserted in S2V1.

Paul Mavis · 06-11-2008, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Von Pein

So we have to pay Paramount more to have music substituted.

Amazon's got S1, V2 on sale for just $18 now, btw. That is, indeed, a steal. But I feel like I just had $29 stolen from me (that's what I paid for S2, V1).

And it's good to see that the last 8 reviews (as of this writing) at Amazon for this Season-Two abomination are all from really pissed-off Fuge fans.

In addition, it seems amazing to me that
Paul Mavis (who called himself a "Fugitive fanatic" in that very review) wouldn't have noticed a single piece of music being changed in the S2 DVD set.

And: Not a single mention of the music edits in the review either. (What a shame that all of those great-looking images shown in those screen-captures are destroyed by the music that accompanies them.)

EDIT:

Paul Mavis has weighed in regarding the music changes, in this DVD Talk post

Paul said:

"I'm disappointed, too, but I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm going to enjoy the show."

That's fine, Paul. But I don't see how it's even possible for a self-proclaimed "Fugitive fanatic" like yourself to "enjoy" these episodes after the sweeping changes that CBS/Paramount has made to them (and I haven't even heard the changes as yet...but whatever the "new" music is that has been inserted into these shows, it cannot possibly be as good as the original soundtrack). And even if I ended up liking the new music, I'd still be against replacing the original music score.

Should I try to "enjoy" a Beatles concert on DVD or CD, even if the music on the disc has been replaced with a Monkees soundtrack? Seems to me to be a good analogy.

I think maybe I'm in Serling's Twilight Zone right now. Somebody wake me up!

I've never posted here before, but I've always enjoyed reading everybody's opinions here. But since part of this post was directed at me -- with a tone of anger -- I thought maybe I should reply.

As I said in the forum post that accompanies my review (you can view it by clicking the "Discuss" button on the review), I don't like this situation any more than anybody else. I'm not "for" cutting out original music cues. Just because I don't mention those cuts -- specifically because I didn't have any concrete information on them when I wrote the review -- doesn't mean I endorse them.

If your point then is to somehow upbraid me for calling myself a "Fugitive fanatic" and not detailing the music cuts, that sounds more to me like a potential pissing contest on a forum, of which I'm all too familiar with from other reviews I've written. I've never said I'm an "expert" on the show. I haven't seen the episodes since they aired back in the early 90s on A&E. And I don't have an encyclopedic memory of each and every one of them. Far from it. In many ways, I feel like I'm rediscovering this series all over again -- and I want to share that enthusiasm with new viewers, as well.

Is it "right" or "fair" that the studios cut out this music? From an aesthetic standpoint, absolutely not. But from a financial one? I don't know; I don't know the facts in this particular case. I like to bitch about studio stupidity myself (I hate the split-seasons, and I say so in my reviews), but I also know that many of these decisions are strictly money-related. I know it feels good to demand that these studios do what we say, but that's not reality. And it wasn't reality when The Fugitive was first broadcast. Everybody who worked on that show did so to make money. Yours and my experience of the show may be outside that realization, but money certainly was -- and is -- the only factor driving television production. It's a nasty fact, but true. They didn't make The Fugitive first for "art's sake." They made it to sell soap.

And now they're selling it again on DVD -- for money. It may offend our aesthetic grasp of the show, to view it in those terms, but that's reality. We may want to say, "How dare you do this to a show I love?" and we may feel like something that was important to us was "ruined," but we don't "own" that experience alone. That "experience" of course was bought and paid for by moneymen. And they have the right to do what they want with that product. Often times, the tone of these posts is one of the studios doing this on purpose. I don't think so. They're businesspeople. They want to make as much money as possible, with as little outlay as possible. If they thought shelling out a lot of money for music rights would give them X-amount of dollars, they'd do so. Perhaps they can't in this situation; perhaps the rights to the music is tied up by a relative or copyright holder who is holding up the studio for more dough -- money that wouldn't be made back with the relatively small sales of The Fugitive as compared to the latest Hollywood blockbuster on DVD.

As I say in my review, the reverse of that is the power the consumer has: if you don't like it, don't buy it. I come down on the side of wanting as many people as possible to see this brilliant show -- even in a compromised format. Is it perfect the way it is? No. But enough is there that's valuable (and far better than anything on TV today), so people should see it. Especially people new to vintage TV, who may be resistent to watching "old black and white."

You mention The Beatles being supplanted with The Monkees on a CD. That's not an apt comparison at all here. There's more to The Fugitive than just music; you're watching, obviously, pictures, too. You're listening to well-crafted dialogue and watching exciting, moving performances. All of that would be lost if we just said, "Don't watch it; the music is different." As a film reviewer for over 25 years, I grew up watching classic motion pictures on TV -- regular broadcast TV, before cable, before VCRs -- with commercials and cropped images "ruining" films. We didn't know any better, but it certainly didn't "spoil" those experiences. It was still meaningful to watch them, even in their compromised form. And it gave me my love of movies.

If I take your argument to its logical conclusion, I could say that nobody should watch vintage TV shows in any format today...other than on an analog signal sent over the airwaves, to be received on your black and white tube-filled TV. No DVDs. No videos. And put the constant commercial breaks back, too. Because that's how The Fugitive was originally shown and viewed by its audience. If you really believe that absolute fidelity to the aesthetic experience is mandatory, than DVDs -- even those with complete episodes with no cuts -- are still a compromise to the original experience, and therefore, unworthy of anyone's time.

Obviously, I'm exaggerating to make a point, but not by much. If Paramount pulled the music from The Fugitive, it was for a reason -- financial, legal, who knows. I'm not sure they did it just to piss you off; otherwise, why go to all the trouble of restoring the picture? They could have saved even more money, and screwed you over there, too. So, perhaps, it was out of their control. Who knows. But one thing I've never seen in any of these forums bashing the studios, is anyone commenting on the composers or copyright holders who ask outrageous amounts for licensing fees, thereby assuring themselves of getting kicked off the DVDs? That does happen, and perhaps that happened here. Again, we don't know. But I think enough of what is on The Fugitive Second Season Volume I DVDs is important enough for viewers to see -- compromised or not.

Paul Mavis
DVDTalk.com
Online Film Critics Society

TheGreatOz · 06-11-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Hug

This substitute music on season 2 begs the question, if Paramount has to re-press season 1 at some future point in time, will they use the re-score music or will they use the original music score?

Surely you jest, Bob!

Not only will Season 1 not have to be re-pressed, but S2V1 and any subsequent volumes will end up in Wal-Mart's DVDumpster bins for $9.99.

I can't believe that one of the most-requested TV shows of all time on DVD would end up in this butchered form!?!

By the way folks, the Heyes music is mixed so loud and has so much tympani, it actually drowns William Conrad's closing epilogue on more than half of the 15 episodes.

TheGreatOz · 06-11-2008, 02:42 PM

Paul, your reviews are top-notch. I've printed each one out and folded them on the shelf with S1V1 and S1V2. Whether you missed catching the totally altered music or not in S2V1 and for whatever reason, is not the heart of the issue here.

What IS the heart of the matter is the fact that the music on The Fugitive has a life and reputation of its own. It's a reputation and popularity not shared by very many other TV shows of that era. I cite, as proof, the long out-of-print The Fugitive - Soundtrack CD of Rugolo's theme and variations. It rarely appears on Amazon and even less frequently on eBay. I paid some hefty money for the CD on Amazon a few years ago.

This show is a tuxedo, and now with brown shoes as the music.

It's not just about the music...it's ALL about the music!

Meek Rubel · 06-11-2008, 02:49 PM

Does anyone have a "best email address" for us to inflict invective onto Paramount/CBS?

Cannot wait to write to them.

TheGreatOz · 06-11-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meek Rubel

Does anyone have a "best email address" for us to inflict invective onto Paramount/CBS?

Having been through this gauntlet several times with Disney & Warner Brothers (yes, I watch cartoons rather than read the day's headlines or burn $4 gas)...

Email is too easy to filter and/or delete before reaching powerful eyes. Email away, but also phone calls and processed tree carcass mail are most effective.

(Insert phone number and mailing address below)

Ockeghem · 06-11-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywoodaholic

Speaking of Dominic Frontiere, is this Outer Limits soundtrack release from La-La-Land Records mentioned on this thread a new release of Outer Limits music or is it the same release as the 1993 Crescendo release? Inquiring TOL fans want to know. Thanks.

We now return control of this thread to your regularly-scheduled Fugitive frustrations.

Hollywoodaholic,

That's a good question. I've been trying to find out that answer for the past half hour. I hope it's new material, since I can think of several cues that aren't on the 1993 release that I would love to have. For example, the music in Keeper of the Purple Twilight, just before Ikar stomps on all of the ants, is one segment I hope is released. (It is heard elsewhere in the episode as well.) That's been one of my favorite themes since childhood. I'd also love to have another copy of Lubin's second-season closing music, even though it is available on one of the volumes of Television's Greatest Hits. (This is the one that is a variation on the theme you hear in One Step Beyond.)

Please let me know if you find out about this, and I'll do the same.