The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews - Page 32

Carabimero · 08-21-2008, 06:27 AM

It really hurts me during the epilogue when Kimble must face his fate without the sad strains of Rugolo.

Oh, hell, the whole episode killed me.

I watched MAN IN A CHARIOT--that was it. The only reason I finished it was to see if indeed EVERYTHING had been replaced. I sat there in shock the whole time. I do remember thinking that the mix was too loud, there were too many horns, and the new "music" ran longer than the Rugolo and the stock cues. Sometimes it bullied its way in and just stayed there, when there'd been no music originally in that spot. Way too heavy handed.

One episode was one too many for me.

AndyMcKinney · 08-21-2008, 08:30 AM

As lazy as CBS were with this, you'd think they could've at least kept all of Rugolo's music intact (as it should've been obvious to them that it's not part of the Capitol library and should've been quite easy to identify, as most, if not all, of his cues contain the Fugitive theme), and just replaced the library cues. Although fans would've probably still been upset, I don't imagine there'd have been quite the backlash that there's been (for the record: I don't like that they've changed the music, either).

michael_ks · 08-21-2008, 08:36 AM

Quote:

I do remember thinking that the mix was too loud, there were too many horns, and the new "music" ran longer than the Rugolo and the stock cues. Sometimes it bullied its way in and just stayed there, when there'd been no music originally in that spot. Way too heavy handed.

This is precisely what drives me nuts as much as Rugolo's cues being replaced. Whether for film or tv, music scoring over the last decade or so has been performed in a rather insulting and pompous manner in order to inform the viewer when to feel sad, happy, terrified, etc.

Let's face it, subtlety is a lost art. Watching a tv drama that was scored by the likes of Pete Rugolo, Fred Steiner, Dominic Frontiere, Morton Stevens and others, one is struck by how well they "spotted" the drama, that is to say, having the foresight to know when a scene would benefit from music and when it would benefit from none at all. But then, back in the day we realized that 'less is more'. No longer.

Gary OS · 08-21-2008, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael_ks

This is precisely what drives me nuts as much as Rugolo's cues being replaced. Whether for film or tv, music scoring over the last decade or so has been performed in a rather insulting and pompous manner in order to inform the viewer when to feel sad, happy, terrified, etc.

Let's face it, subtlety is a lost art. Watching a tv drama that was scored by the likes of Pete Rugolo, Fred Steiner, Dominic Frontiere, Morton Stevens and others, one is struck by how well they "spotted" the drama, that is to say, having the foresight to know when a scene would benefit from music and when it would benefit from none at all. But then, back in the day we realized that 'less is more'. No longer.

Well said, my good friend. Very well said.

While I wouldn't have been happy with a FUGITIVE release where those few Capitol cues had been rescored, it certainly would have been the better choice over rescoring all the background music.

Gary "truly a sad situation - easily the most disheartening TV on DVD problem I've ever encountered in my years of collecting" O.

michael_ks · 08-21-2008, 09:16 AM

Gary, how would you like to have been a museum curator, bring forth a sculpture by a too long neglected artist from the hidden recesses of some old vault, proudly bring it out in the light, only to clumsily trip and witness its obliteration into a million tiny pieces? (Come to think of it, that would at least be only an accident. Maybe it's more like prior to display, thinking what it needs is a nice coat of spray paint).

I know I'm stacking the deck here, but you see the lunacy of it all. Paramount had what is regarded as one of the greatest tv dramas and emasculated it to extent that the only way to make amends is to immediately correct this set by restoring the original elements, save for a few very minor music cues. But I'm certain Paramount will again blunder, release vol. 2 with rescored music...and drive still more fans away.

Gary OS · 08-21-2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael_ks

Gary, how would you like to have been a museum curator, bring forth a sculpture by a too long neglected artist from the hidden recesses of some old vault, proudly bring it out in the light, only to clumsily trip and witness its obliteration into a million tiny pieces?

I know I'm stacking the deck here, but you see the lunacy of it all. Paramount had what is regarded as one of the greatest tv dramas and emasculated it to extent that the only way to make amends is to immediately correct this set by restoring the original elements, save for a few very minor music cues. But I'm certain Paramount will again blunder, release vol. 2 with rescored music...and drive still more fans away.

Agreed Michael. The only difference being that in your hypothetical story the curator "accidentally" trips and ruins the beautiful sculpture. That would be highly embarrassing and if I were the one to do it I'd feel horrible and sick to my stomach. But with CBS/Paramount - what they did was NOT on accident. It was done purposely! And that makes it all the worse. Not only done purposely, but done when another route could have been taken and the majority, if not all, of the cues could have been preserved. They took the "easy" way out and demolished a great piece of art. No doubt the FUGITIVE was art. But the point is they did it on purpose, instead of going the extra mile to fix the problem they ran into with the cue sheets. And it could have been fixed by all accounts.

I agree with you that the only way CBS/P can salvage any good will at this point is by re-issuing Season 2, Vol. 1 in a corrected state. But they are almost assuredly not going to do that. I still look for them to slip Season 2, Vol. 2 under the radar with rescored music as well. Surely they had it slated for a November or December release. But now we might not see it till next year - if at all, after all the bad press they deservedly received.

Gary "what a shame" O.

Jeff Willis · 08-21-2008, 09:34 AM

Great posts, all. After reading the latest few posts, I agree. I was never happy about any music replacekment (not in any release but particularly this one). Being a 1st-time viewer and having a family member that prefers the studio (video) release to any "other" sets, I was somewhat caught in the middle on this issue so I did buy S2V1 but won't get any further CBS/P releases of the show (assuming that it's the subbed score or nothing more from CBS/P). Since I was hooked on ths show early I had no choice but to do the "unspeakable" (you all know what I mean). So I'll watch the S2V1 with the family member and I'm covered for the series as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carab

It really hurts me during the epilogue when Kimble must face his fate without the sad strains of Rugolo.

Ain't it the truth!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

Although fans would've probably still been upset, I don't imagine there'd have been quite the backlash that there's been...

Andy, 100% agree. I'd bet anything that if they'd done that, it would have been far less an issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

Let's face it, subtlety is a lost art. Watching a tv drama that was scored by the likes of Pete Rugolo, Fred Steiner, Dominic Frontiere, Morton Stevens and others, one is struck by how well they "spotted" the drama, that is to say, having the foresight to know when a scene would benefit from music and when it would benefit from none at all. But then, back in the day we realized that 'less is more'. No longer.

Ditto what Gary said, Mike. When Mom and I watch this show, the first thing she said was "They don't make them like this anymore" (where the drama is given time to unfold at the pace as was intended in the story).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry

I could *almost* accept it if they'd kept the Act lead-in, lead out cues intact. That's where it REALLY hurts.

Right. I remember thinking the same thing when watching the "..Chariot" episode from the S2V1 set.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary

truly a sad situation - easily the most disheartening TV on DVD problem I've ever encountered in my years of collecting"

Says it all for us, Gary. A precedent that is still hard to believe it happened.

The only diffucult part for me was to get used to the idea that, if the CBS/P release continue, to do without the studio transfer Q. That is usually a criteria for me with TV/DVD that's #1 along with unedited episodes.

Jeff Willis · 08-21-2008, 01:18 PM

I forgot to ask you all this one: What's your guess on what CBS/P will do with this show's releases? Will they complete S2 and then fold the game? Or have they previously re-mastered up to S3 and will release all of the shows that have been "music-subb'ed"? I seem to remember someone here posting info about how much of the series has already been prepped for DVD/remastered but I don't recall the info right now.

My guess on it is that we'll see S2V2 and then the series will go into the "Black Hole" of adandoned shows. But maybe that's the wrong guess considering it's CBS/P. What's their track record of completing shows?

My one fantasy dream about TV/DVD is that we could see a communication vehicle of some kind emerge where the studios and the 'net-based consumers could interact and send/receive feedback about upcoming series releases. It would have been interesting to see the possible results of the Fugitive S2V1 release if there had existed some kind of dialog regardng the Capitol Music Cue issues before any production decisions were made at CBS/P. As mentioned earlier, the knowledge base for this show is considerably vast given that we're talking about a 40+ year old show.

Harry-N · 08-21-2008, 02:20 PM

It's hard to predict what they'll do, but I agree that they'll probably slide a S2V2 release out under cover of darkness and then abandon the series.

From their point of view, it's probably preferable to let the series rot in the vault rather than risk further ire from the rabid fans and the ensuing bad press that results.

As for what the reaction to selective replacing would have been, I think there might have been considerable backlash from many of the same folks who are currently upset. That's assuming that they released it quietly with the Rugolo cues only changing everything else. Some fans would still be upset, and still make noise.

Now, had they announced upfront what the deal was - that THE FUGITIVE SEASON TWO VOLUME 1 could only be released in that altered fashion, otherwise no release, I bet most fans would have accepted the proposal.

I doubt that very many would accept what was ulitmately done to the series even if they HAD been upfront about it.

Harry

Carabimero · 08-21-2008, 03:01 PM

I think they should have waited until the ownership of the cues was made clear, or selectively replaced the stock with existing Rugolo, or rescored only for the missing stock and used variations on Rugolo's themes.

Bob Hug · 08-21-2008, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Willis

I forgot to ask you all this one: What's your guess on what CBS/P will do with this show's releases? Will they complete S2 and then fold the game? Or have they previously re-mastered up to S3 and will release all of the shows that have been "music-subb'ed"? I seem to remember someone here posting info about how much of the series has already been prepped for DVD/remastered but I don't recall the info right now.

The Paramount syndication bible says only the first two seasons have been transferred to HD, but that was as of 3/06/08. To quote:

"This series has been partially transferred into HD and has the following masters:

Network 4x3 HD (Seasons 1 & 2, 60 episodes total)"