Stalled series? There's Hope! - Page 9

Curtis F · 07-07-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichieMagoo

Good point! Frasier is a quality show. I never had the opportunity to really watch it...but from what I've seen of it, I could see myself getting the DVDs! Thanks for reminding me. (Cheers is on my want list too)

To respond to Travis: I could never foresee a show like the Sopranos becoming an enduring classic. I think it's apparent popularity is something that is tied to the present popular culture which values such things as brashness and vulgarity. I would hope that future generations would find such things offensive, just as past generations have.

Our society is in sort of a crisis right now, as our traditional values are being attacked in an assault to try and alter them- but this culture which has been created as a result of that will not endure (and can not endure- it is unsustainable, and contains the conduit for it's own destruction) and will be considered strange, irrelevant and offensive by the future generations who do endure.

Only time will tell who is right. But I don't see the people(nor the culture) who value things like The Sopranos, enduring. (And I'm Italian...)

When you look at the classics that have endured- they are all either shows which transcend popular culture, and which emminate ideas which are universal to people of any time period (i.e. not just based on the narrow trends of the popular culture of their time) and/or shows which portray a time when life was better. I can not iomagine anyone watching the Sopranos 40 years from now, and saying "Wow! Those were the good old days!".

I have to disagree with you there. The Sopranos will very likely be considered classics, much like the films The Godfather and Goodfellas.

Jay_B! · 07-07-2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichieMagoo

Good point! Frasier is a quality show. I never had the opportunity to really watch it...but from what I've seen of it, I could see myself getting the DVDs! Thanks for reminding me. (Cheers is on my want list too)

To respond to Travis: I could never foresee a show like the Sopranos becoming an enduring classic. I think it's apparent popularity is something that is tied to the present popular culture which values such things as brashness and vulgarity. I would hope that future generations would find such things offensive, just as past generations have.

Our society is in sort of a crisis right now, as our traditional values are being attacked in an assault to try and alter them- but this culture which has been created as a result of that will not endure (and can not endure- it is unsustainable, and contains the conduit for it's own destruction) and will be considered strange, irrelevant and offensive by the future generations who do endure.

Only time will tell who is right. But I don't see the people(nor the culture) who value things like The Sopranos, enduring. (And I'm Italian...)

When you look at the classics that have endured- they are all either shows which transcend popular culture, and which emminate ideas which are universal to people of any time period (i.e. not just based on the narrow trends of the popular culture of their time) and/or shows which portray a time when life was better. I can not iomagine anyone watching the Sopranos 40 years from now, and saying "Wow! Those were the good old days!".

not trying to start a fight, but I probably wouldn't have gone off on that tangeant if I were you. You never know who might be on the boards and who you might be offending. I happen to be gay and hate the way the companies treat older shows. Maybe I don't have "traditional values" (I just am who I am) but I don't see what that has to do with the shows I buy or not.

I am not a Sopranos fan, but fans of mob movies like The Godfather and Goodfellas embrace the show.

There are a lot of great shows on the air now, I think people sometimes look at the past with rose-colored glasses. I agree that TV 10-20-30-40 years ago in general is better than tv now (mainly due to all of the reality garbage that clogs up the airwaves), but there are still some excellent shows out there if you look hard enough. Brothers And Sisters, Supernatural, Lost, Ugly Betty, Dexter, Weeds, House, Law And Order: SVU are just a few examples of excellent programs that are still currently in production (I love Desperate Housewives and Grey's Anatomy as well but accept their shortcomings).

TravisR · 07-07-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay_B!

There are a lot of great shows on the air now, I think people sometimes look at the past with rose-colored glasses.

Exactly. It's not like TV shows (or life and society) in the 1950's and 1960's was perfect. People just have forgotten the bad stuff.

EDIT: I'm not saying that everyone has to enjoy or watch new shows (if you don't like it, you don't like it) but dismissing all modern TV as bad is the same thing as if a 15 year old kid dismisses black and white TV shows or movies based on it being 'old'.

RichieMagoo · 07-07-2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravisR

Exactly. It's not like TV shows (or life and society) in the 1950's and 1960's was perfect. People just have forgotten the bad stuff.

EDIT: I'm not saying that everyone has to enjoy or watch new shows (if you don't like it, you don't like it) but dismissing all modern TV as bad is the same thing as if a 15 year old kid dismisses black and white TV shows or movies based on it being 'old'.

There's alot of truth to that! Some shows I had fond memories of....but then seeing them 30 years later, I say "What was I thinking?! This sucks!".

Like the kid resisting B&W stuff, too- I had resisted some modern shows [at the time] simply because they were modern and popular (Seinfeld, and the Simpsons, for two).

I remember once putting on an old Cedrick Hardwicke movie from the 30's when my [then] 10 year-old nephew was visiting- I'll never forget his reaction- he was totally flabbergasted. It was just so foreign and unusual to him- compared to what he had come to know as movies...and compared to what he knew as "noraml" social protocol and human behavior. Hehe...that was many years ago...but I'll never forget his shocked reaction- it was as if he were seeing a Martian!

But, in my opinion, the vast majority of the new stuff is shallow and offensive...as are many aspects of our modern culture in general. (And I guess these shows are just a reflection of that culture)

For instance, from a derscription I read somewhere, I was led to believe that I might possibly like Curb Your Enthusiasm- but when i watched a clip of it on the internet, I was appalled at the language and attitude expressed in it- and the fact that all the characters were always just yelling and screaming at each other...what a nerve-wracking show!

70sTVlover · 07-07-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichieMagoo

For instance, from a derscription I read somewhere, I was led to believe that I might possibly like Curb Your Enthusiasm- but when i watched a clip of it on the internet, I was appalled at the language and attitude expressed in it- and the fact that all the characters were always just yelling and screaming at each other...what a nerve-wracking show!

Same thing happened to me, overuse of bad language ---- no thanks!

Rick Thompson · 07-07-2008, 05:46 PM

I've lways wondered why, given the major networks' affiliations with their video companies -- CBS with Paramount, NBC with Universal, Fox with Fox, etc. -- why they didn't use the summer dog days to promote their classic DVD lines.

Take an evening where a network is just getting killed or has awful demographics (read "old folks") -- Saturday springs to mind. Run the shows they have video rights for two-week runs. Call it "A Classic Summer Saturday." The ratings couldn't be any worse, the programming would be inexpensive and it would be free advertising for shows they sell. They could throw in a "This show is available on DVD at fine video stores everywhere or at XYZ Network.com" announcement or ad. I suspect there would be a spike in sales of those shows and the network would make money both ways.

But what do I know?

Jay_B! · 07-07-2008, 05:55 PM

I don't like cussing when it's overdone, but Curb Your Enthusiasm is such a hilarious show that it doesn't matter. The first two seasons of that show were brilliant. Yes, Larry swears like a sailor, but at the same time, he is the anti-hero of the show. He is the main character and protaginist, but he's always getting into trouble and biting off more than he can chew, so it's not like he's depicted as a role model or anything. Personally, I think he equalled Seinfeld with that show. Some of the episodes are so funny I can laugh just thinking about it (like the "beloved aunt" typo or when the deranged nanny started going nuts when she hears Looney Tunes music).

And I agree with Travis, the 50's and 60's weren't so great if you were a minority.

Jay_B! · 07-07-2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Thompson

I've lways wondered why, given the major networks' affiliations with their video companies -- CBS with Paramount, NBC with Universal, Fox with Fox, etc. -- why they didn't use the summer dog days to promote their classic DVD lines.

Take an evening where a network is just getting killed or has awful demographics (read "old folks") -- Saturday springs to mind. Run the shows they have video rights for two-week runs. Call it "A Classic Summer Saturday." The ratings couldn't be any worse, the programming would be inexpensive and it would be free advertising for shows they sell. They could throw in a "This show is available on DVD at fine video stores everywhere or at XYZ Network.com" announcement or ad. I suspect there would be a spike in sales of those shows and the network would make money both ways.

But what do I know?

why repeat classic television when you have plenty of cheapo forgettable reality tv fluff to shove down and dumb down America's throat?

Bert Greene · 07-07-2008, 06:40 PM

I generally have a problem with the relativist view that all eras automatically have the same quotient of bad television. Plus, 'what' constitutes poor programs in peoples' eyes? The classic era obviously has its aesthetic high points, like "Playhouse 90," "US Steel Hour," "Omnibus," and whatnot, which the critics championed. But what was downright BAD? Was it things like second or third-tier westerns? Innocuous fluff like "Celebrity Bowling?" Was it the local kiddie programs, with hosts wearing sailor caps or cowboy hats, dragging out old Popeye cartoons? Teen dance party shows? Back then, the critics seemed to razz things like genteel party-game shows like "What's My Line?" and "Masquerade Party." But are these shows really bad? I find them rather charming myself. Was it the mild-mannered silliness of "Mister Ed" that was so egregiously lacking? Not my cup of tea, but nice fare for the kids to watch at grandma's house on an early Sunday evening. Just what it aspired to be. I've seen all sorts of old-time obscurities, including many short-lived shows, and I just haven't encountered much that was all-out awful. I really have to grasp at straws to find examples, like the tacky, made-for-syndication "Night Court USA" or the notoriously idiotic "My Mother, the Car."

Proportionately, I find that nowadays, at very least, 75% of television to be gut-wrenchingly unwatchable... the horrid daytime talk shows with their degenerate subject-matter, the grotesque self-absorbedness of characters on reality shows, the sitcoms that can't go for more than 60 seconds without flinging out a crude sexual innuendo, the ever-increasing length of commercial breaks and the ever-increasing abrasiveness of said commercials, the crime shows that wallow in perverted subcultures each week between putrid autopsy footage, and now even the news channels deem that the asinine exploits of Spears, Lohan, etc., constitute legitimate news. I used to enjoy just the simple daily presence of television in the house, but it's now just too obnoxiously vile for my tastes. It reached a point that it was no longer worth navigating through, even if there were a few hidden gems scattered around. Oh, well. Does any of this define 'bad tv?' I dunno. I guess I don't even particularly care. But when making comparisons, I just can't accept that the percentage of all-out drek is some kind of steady constant from decade to decade.

Anyway, I think one of the reasons classics fans (like me) are so spirited in these discussions is that DVD's, for us, are the only game in town... the only viewing option. Couple this with the fact that in many cases, we haven't seen some of these old favorites in ten, twenty, thirty years. That's a LONG wait. By the way, is it all that much of a 'personal' insult that someone slam modern television? I do know many people who have all but abandoned current tv, as it either didn't address their tastes, or they feel it's an affront to their moral standards, something they naturally refuse to compromise. Sure, they are mostly older folks, so naturally they don't count for much in the current pop-culture paradigm. Considering the dismissive treatment they receive, I can hardly begrudge a bit of curmudgeonly griping. In fact, it seems downright warranted at times.

Jay_B! · 07-07-2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bert Greene

I generally have a problem with the relativist view that all eras automatically have the same quotient of bad television. Plus, 'what' constitutes poor programs in peoples' eyes? The classic era obviously has its aesthetic high points, like "Playhouse 90," "US Steel Hour," "Omnibus," and whatnot, which the critics championed. But what was downright BAD? Was it things like second or third-tier westerns? Innocuous fluff like "Celebrity Bowling?" Was it the local kiddie programs, with hosts wearing sailor caps or cowboy hats, dragging out old Popeye cartoons? Teen dance party shows? Back then, the critics seemed to razz things like genteel party-game shows like "What's My Line?" and "Masquerade Party." But are these shows really bad? I find them rather charming myself. Was it the mild-mannered silliness of "Mister Ed" that was so egregiously lacking? Not my cup of tea, but nice fare for the kids to watch at grandma's house on an early Sunday evening. Just what it aspired to be. I've seen all sorts of old-time obscurities, including many short-lived shows, and I just haven't encountered much that was all-out awful. I really have to grasp at straws to find examples, like the tacky, made-for-syndication "Night Court USA" or the notoriously idiotic "My Mother, the Car."

Proportionately, I find that nowadays, at very least, 75% of television to be gut-wrenchingly unwatchable... the horrid daytime talk shows with their degenerate subject-matter, the grotesque self-absorbedness of characters on reality shows, the sitcoms that can't go for more than 60 seconds without flinging out a crude sexual innuendo, the ever-increasing length of commercial breaks and the ever-increasing abrasiveness of said commercials, the crime shows that wallow in perverted subcultures each week between putrid autopsy footage, and now even the news channels deem that the asinine exploits of Spears, Lohan, etc., constitute legitimate news. I used to enjoy just the simple daily presence of television in the house, but it's now just too obnoxiously vile for my tastes. It reached a point that it was no longer worth navigating through, even if there were a few hidden gems scattered around. Oh, well. Does any of this define 'bad tv?' I dunno. I guess I don't even particularly care. But when making comparisons, I just can't accept that the percentage of all-out drek is some kind of steady constant from decade to decade.

Anyway, I think one of the reasons classics fans (like me) are so spirited in these discussions is that DVD's, for us, are the only game in town... the only viewing option. Couple this with the fact that in many cases, we haven't seen some of these old favorites in ten, twenty, thirty years. That's a LONG wait. By the way, is it all that much of a 'personal' insult that someone slam modern television? I do know many people who have all but abandoned current tv, as it either didn't address their tastes, or they feel it's an affront to their moral standards, something they naturally refuse to compromise. Sure, they are mostly older folks, so naturally they don't count for much in the current pop-culture paradigm. Considering the dismissive treatment they receive, I can hardly begrudge a bit of curmudgeonly griping. In fact, it seems downright warranted at times.

but can you not say there is even one decent current show? If you honestly feel like Supertrain and Pink Lady And Jeff are better than the best shows on television now, you're no more openminded than the teenagers who think anything who predates Seinfeld and Friends (and I am sure to these kids, those shows are now "ancient television" as well) is unwatchable because it's old.

Curtis F · 07-07-2008, 07:41 PM

I got caught up in it this afternoon, too but... What's this thread about again?