Stalled series? There's Hope! - Page 8

Professor Echo · 07-04-2008, 04:39 PM

I think the future for TV shows on DVD will probably eventually go the boutique route along the lines of Time-Life, with complete series being released at once and in gift packaging. One could argue this should have been the pattern from the beginning, with studios showing more confidence in their product and distributing series as an entire set with commensurate pricing. As far as profitability goes I'm sure they would have taken a hit doing it this way, but they had to have enough marketing foresight to see that the cash cow of TV on DVD was not going to last forever. In other words, they may not have engendered the same success as they have with the quantity of first season sets sold, but in the long run it might have been less of a gamble had they appealed to the true fans of a given series from the very start instead of the potentially fickle casual fans and all their impulse buys.

I'm sure more learned minds than mine will come up with plenty of reasons why the studios would consider such a measure to be absolute folly, but we may yet see these kind of complete series releases, either from the studios directly, or through an intermediary like Time-Life. As series runs on home video are only now being tested within the last few years, save for the Time-Life VHS sets, there is no predicting what will happen as the marketplace constantly evolves. The same way that no one ever foresaw the initial phenomenal success of TV on DVD, no one apparently saw the eventual collapse of it. If it is to succeed in any fashion and not become a home video dinosaur, it may have to scale back on expectation and start re-inventing itself as a niche product with a small, but devoted following.

Steve...O · 07-04-2008, 05:21 PM

Duplicate post.

Steve...O · 07-04-2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Lambert

Certainly this is the main point we have tried to emphasize with them, and other studios (all "majors") that have sometimes had similar complaints, for years now (and one would think it's a point so obvious that it doesn't need repeating). Nevertheless, we still get this complaint from time to time. I guess a couple of the majors feel that their marketing/publicity "machine" is big enough that they don't really need us.

Dave, I'm assuming that you and Gord deal primarily with the marketing people as opposed to the operations/executive types. Since these individuals' job security revolves around proving their value as marketeers there may be some professional one-upsmanship going on from their standpoint. After all, if the business leaders decide that TVSonDVD.com or some other internet outlet can be as effective at getting the word out about a product at a lower cost then they may consider outsourcing the work to entities such as yourself. This is just a thought; I know you didn't want to drag the conversation out and I wouldn't blame you if didn't want to touch this comment with a 10 foot pole

To address some other comments in this thread. Although we may disagree with or be disappointed by some of the decisions made by the various studios, they are not idiots. The aforementioned marketing staffs have bundles of sales data showing the typical life cycle of a product (X% of sales in month 1, Y% in the first 6 months, etc.) as well as where their sales are coming from (internet, Walmart, Best Buy, etc.). They also have access to research showing which prospective titles are most likely to do well once brought to market. To suggest they ignore this data borders on the ludicrous.

TravisR · 07-04-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve...O

To address some other comments in this thread. Although we may disagree with or be disappointed by some of the decisions made by the various studios, they are not idiots. The aforementioned marketing staffs have bundles of sales data showing the typical life cycle of a product (X% of sales in month 1, Y% in the first 6 months, etc.) as well as where their sales are coming from (internet, Walmart, Best Buy, etc.). They also have access to research showing which prospective titles are most likely to do well once brought to market. To suggest they ignore this data borders on the ludicrous.

Very well said.

David Lambert · 07-04-2008, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Radke

As for me, I'd LOVE to buy all the shows I'm interested in, but many of us are on extremely tight budgets, especially with today's economy.

No doubt, and studios HAVE to recognize that. But unfortunately the reaction may be to "make less, if noone can afford to buy them". That may be "less product, period", or that may be "less (and therefore cheaper) content per release"; i.e. more half-season sets...or even to break the seasons into smaller portions like thirds or quarters! I've been nervous that this kind of thing may happen...and nervous about it for quite a while now, especially with some of the older shows that run 30+ episodes for a single season. When we see that "Season 1, Volume 3" title tag, then all hell's gonna break loose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichieMagoo

Maybe that drop-off is a result of the studios taking so long to release subsequent seasons, though?

...The fact that bootleggers often offer the incomplete shows which the studios refuse to continue, speaks volumes as to their viability.

The latter is certainly a debatable: while it's easy to think "hey, bootleggers wouldn't be sellling those full-series sets if it wasn't profitable for them", there's also a very valid point that they have much less of an overhead, too. Hey, it's not like they're paying for licenses, royalties, remastering, or anything else that goes into a studio budge.

As for the former point, there's certainly something to be said for that. But as I indicated, sometimes a studio just doesn't have the data they need right away to make a decision. If you don't know how Season 1 sold yet, you may have to wait for that data to come in before you can decide on green-lighting Season 2, y'know?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan^H

But that's where I'm stumped. If season 1 of a show sells great, how can the second season do worse, and the third even less? Obviously if you buy the first season of a show your a fan and are going to want to continue the seasons. Do fans lose interest in the series and call it quits, or is it they just get back logged and need time to catch up?

Ah, but you're missing an entire category, and a pretty darn big one: the CASUAL FAN. The person who likes a show, gets it on DVD, then watches those episodes and realizes that this is enough for them. Perfect example here is the release of The Andy Griffith Show. I had three co-workers (back before TSoD became a full-time job for me) who loved, loved, LOVED that show, and always asked when the DVDs would come out. When it came out, two of them bought it, loved it, and purchased ever release on street date. The third guy bought Season 1, and enjoyed it, but realized "this is enough for me" and didn't feel the need to own further episodes. Even though his favorite episode wasn't in that season; it was a few later. He didn't care; what he had was good enough. If he had a hankerin' for some Andy, he could scratch that itch.

Other "fans" buy the first season, and realize that it doesn't hold up to their memories and isn't enjoyable any more, so they never buy more releases. Still others are picked up by non-fans, as a gift for a fan (say, a mom or dad, or a grandparent) who would never buy it for themselves. Well, having bought the first release for that person, the gift-giver isn't committed to buying the rest of the seasons for this fan...and whatever reasons (often financial) that prevented the fan from buying it themselves in the first place, persist and keep them from picking up more seasons.

Add that to the people who don't buy subsequent seasons because of dissatisfaction with prices or quality, or irritation at half-season sets or edits or music changes, or people who just haven't gotten around to buying the second season or maybe never got around to finishing watching the first season, or maybe never even got word that more seasons were coming out because they're not online all the time like we are, etc.; there are LOTS of reasons why further releases don't sell as well as the first release. I'm sure we could add tons more reasons to the list than I just stated here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jab_B!

well, it doesn't make sense that the companies act like the initial sales are the only ones that matter.

If my post made it sound like that's the case, then I apologize. I don't think I said that, though. I've seen LOTS of examples of studios, including CBS/Par, Sony, Warner, Fox, and others, who will indicate to us many months, or even years!, after a title's release that they are still looking at sales figures for that title and waiting for it to get above a certain mark before making a decision on a further release. It's often "never too late" in some cases for a studio to un-stall a stalled show because the numbers finally made it. But how long it took will certainly factor into the decision, yes? And obviously it means a decision is made much later; the point I was trying to make had to do with why the studio looks at the earliest sales data to make the quickest decisions on whether to move forward with the next release.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

I think the future for TV shows on DVD will probably eventually go the boutique route along the lines of Time-Life, with complete series being released at once and in gift packaging.

I think that there's certainly room for this, and more of it...but that it will never take the place of people running down the street to Wal-Mart or Best Buy to pick up the latest and greatest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve...O

Dave, I'm assuming that you and Gord deal primarily with the marketing people as opposed to the operations/executive types. Since these individuals' job security revolves around proving their value as marketeers there may be some professional one-upsmanship going on from their standpoint. After all, if the business leaders decide that TVSonDVD.com or some other internet outlet can be as effective at getting the word out about a product at a lower cost then they may consider outsourcing the work to entities such as yourself. This is just a thought; I know you didn't want to drag the conversation out and I wouldn't blame you if didn't want to touch this comment with a 10 foot pole

Okay, I'll dare to "touch it"!

Yes and no on the marketing people; let's just say "it depends on the studio". Mostly "yes", though. What I guess most people don't know is that Gord primarily talks to the studio folk, though I also do sometimes (especially at the independent companies; I leave the majors to Gordo). I more often talk to the "retailer friends," "anonymous sources" and "industry contacts"...you know, the "spies".

But yeah, we recognize that some of the people we deal with are worried about their jobs. However, I am also frankly worried about mine; I want TVGuide.com to renew my contract, so that means I need to bring da' funk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravisR

Very well said.

Agreed; Steve...O's second paragraph is dead-on.

RickER · 07-04-2008, 11:30 PM

Without a doubt, i can be a casual fan myself. I can name a dozen shows i own that i am one and done with! I only wanted the first season of Rawhide. Sure, the studio made it easy for me to quit when they went to split seasons after season 1. I stopped with season 3 of Mission: Impossible, season 4 of Hawaii Five-0, season 5 of Star Trek: TNG (and i am a huge Trek fan!)

Why? Time and money! Damn guys, four seasons of a show is just about 100 episodes! And i have, maybe 40 or 50 different shows on DVD. True, most didnt even run 1 full season, not to mention 5 or 10 seasons. But really, how many times will i be able to watch what i already have? I am in my mid 40s now, at best i have another 40 or so years left to watch TV, and i still have some wants sixmilliondallarman...so i have to draw a line for myself too!

brett tolino · 07-05-2008, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gord Lacey

But you're guaranteeing that the show won't be continued if you don't buy it.

The problem with classic TV, and the subject of an upcoming editorial, is that there can be HUGE dropoff between sales of season sets. You want to know why a show got to season 4 and not further? It's because 30% of the people that bought season 1 collected up to season 4. The dropoff is simply too huge for the companies to continue releasing the show. I have sales data from one studio, and they saw nearly a 70% dropoff between seasons 1 and 2 for a series. YIKES!

Gord

Hi Gord, love your site btw...

You may want to inquire as to what the wait was between Season One and Season Two, much less Season Four. If it was over a year or two wait, there's your answer for the drop off.

The average consumer has a very limited attention span (something Marketing should already know, this is common sense 101) and making them wait over a year or two between releases makes them lose interest, contributing greatly to the drop off in sales. Average Joe doesn't want to wait YEARS for a show to reach completion and once they've seen the years between S1 and S4, many just say F*** it.

Also, As history has proven these past ten years, for many of us, continuing to buy the shows doesn't guarantee the show will be continued either.

So many of us fans have come to the conclusion that even with our continued support, the shows still don't come out... and we've had ten years worth of purchasing these things to prove our point.

With that, I've come to learn that its not my responsibility to buy a show just to see it released to completion because more often than not, my continued support does not make a dent in a studios 'sales expectations'.

Worse, for the shows many of us did support seasonaly that do reach completion, a studio then releases a complete box set with extras and bonuses unavailable in the individual releases, which to me, is a slap to the consumers who supported the releases long enough even to warrant a full box set.

Many people come here stating with great conviction that if we want the shows, we should or need to buy them no matter how poorly or uneconomical the studios release them (The Paramount Volume set thing and the way Paramount is releasing them is quite costly to the consumer).

And as stated above, the long wait -- sometimes, years, between seasoned releases impacts the sales levels immensely.
Studios do little or no advertising to let a consumer know the product is out there. Since most of the average joes do not come to internet sites to find out product release dates, how are consumers supposed to know that Season 3 of their favorite show is out now when its been almost 3 years since the prior release (Party of Five anyone?). People cannot buy what they don't know is out and the years between releases kills demand.

Maybe other studios should Get Smart and start releasing their product complete to combat this once insolvable dilema. I understand the studios problem but its easy to blame the consumers for a product line not selling to expectations. They need to accept responsibilty that the way they are releasing contributes greatly to sales for a studio exists to serve consumers, not the other way around.

RichieMagoo · 07-05-2008, 03:55 PM

Ya know? It's funny- with th