Warner Bros properties

FrosteyV · 05-13-2008, 06:52 AM

I'm fairly new to this forum, and this is the first thread I've ever started, so please excuse me if this topic has been discussed before, but does anyone know why Warner Bros (or whoever owns the rights) is so reluctant to release some of their classic shows from the 50's and 60's? They are sitting on a treasure chest of great old detective and westerns. 77 Sunset Strip, Surfside 6, Bourbon St. Beat, Lawman, Sugarfoot, Bronco, Maverick (the complete series), Hawaiian Eye, The Gallant Men, Cheyenne, the Roaring 20's, Colt .45, etc. They could be making a mint, especially on 77, and Hawaiian Eye, it seems to me.

Bob Hug · 05-13-2008, 07:23 AM

Richard, while I can't say conclusively, it's likely that the studio believes it can earn more on more recent and current shows than with vintage shows. There was a time, several years ago, when I thought Warner was going to be one of the best companies for vintage releases, but that time has pretty much come and gone. If you look at the company's pre-1970 output, it's pretty miniscule.

Adventures of Superman (released all 6 seasons)
Cheyenne (released season 1 plus a 3-episode sampler)
F-Troop (released both seasons plus a 6-episode sampler)
Gilligan's Island (released all three seasons)
Maverick (released a 3-episode sampler)

I may have missed a show or two, but what you see above is pretty much the studio's pre-1970 output. That said, I do see one possible ray of hope for Warner, and that's licensing. Warner did license the entire series of "The Man from U.N.C.L.E." to Time-Life last year. For the studio to release some of the great vintage shows that you list, I think licensing to an independent probably offers the best chance for us to see these shows. The question remains, however, will Warner license other shows to independent releasing companies?

FrosteyV · 05-13-2008, 07:28 AM

Thanks Bob. This might be a dumb question, but any idea why the major studios are so reluctant to license their shows? Again it seems to me that if they are afraid of spending a lot of money to restore and sell these series without a substantial return on investment, why not just license them out and get a guaranteed fee?

AndyMcKinney · 05-13-2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrosteyV

Thanks Bob. This might be a dumb question, but any idea why the major studios are so reluctant to license their shows? Again it seems to me that if they are afraid of spending a lot of money to restore and sell these series without a substantial return on investment, why not just license them out and get a guaranteed fee?

That has always amazed me about Warner and Sony/Columbia. You'd think if they didn't see certain properties as commercially viable, they'd like to get some money from the "poor schmuck" who wants to licence it from them. Without licencing, I'm afraid we'll never get to see shows such as Logan's Run or Quark make it out. They'd only need one release each and they've undergone film-to-tape transfers already (since they were both shown on cable around 1990).

Bob Hug · 05-13-2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrosteyV

Thanks Bob. This might be a dumb question, but any idea why the major studios are so reluctant to license their shows? Again it seems to me that if they are afraid of spending a lot of money to restore and sell these series without a substantial return on investment, why not just license them out and get a guaranteed fee?

Well, Universal, for one, is now doing quite a bit of licensing to companies like Shout! Factory (Ironside, McHale's Navy), Arts Alliance America (Banacek, B.L. Stryker), and Timeless Media (Laredo, Cimarron City, Restless Gun, Riverboat, The Tall Man, Checkmate, Arrest and Trial). And, as I mentioned, Warner has at least experimented with licensing an older show with "The Man from U.N.C.L.E." But I'm unclear as to whether Fox, Sony and MGM have done any licensing of older shows. CBS Paramount doesn't have to go the licensing route as they actually release older shows from the 1950s and 1960s.

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David Levine · 05-13-2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrosteyV

Thanks Bob. This might be a dumb question, but any idea why the major studios are so reluctant to license their shows? Again it seems to me that if they are afraid of spending a lot of money to restore and sell these series without a substantial return on investment, why not just license them out and get a guaranteed fee?

One reason is they often don't feel it's worth their time/resources.

It's not as simple as accepting a monetary advance and waiting for royalties to come in. The studio needs to track down and deliver the episodes in some form. If they are in possession of any artwork or photos, those have to be found and supplied. Then they need to have at least 1 point person that is available for constant communication with the studio they license the property to. Then anything that the licensing studio does (artwork, menu designs, ancillary features, etc.) needs to be approved by the studio, by it's legal department, potentially creators of the show, etc.

It can all make sense if it's a show that is going to sell decently, but if it's something that is going to project to do 2500 units over it's lifetime, it becomes "more trouble than it's worth" to a big studio.

Dan McW · 05-13-2008, 11:26 PM

There's some good news about Maverick, pending a DVD set. Encore Westerns will be airing it weekdays this summer, after a July 4 marathon to launch the run, and has Lawman, Cheyenne, and How the West Was Won waiting in the wings.

Universal's Wagon Train and The Virginian also appear to be in the hopper at Encore, although a press release on Encore's site mixes those titles in with a list of licensed Universal films. Since the '40s Virginian film is already in Encore's stable, surely that refers to the '60s TV series, which the Westerns channel has aired before.

The press release mentions WB series "such as" those four I listed, so maybe others in Richard's first post could turn up on Westerns or another Encore channel.

Starz Bulks Up Movie Line-Up - Jan 23, 2008

Elena S · 05-14-2008, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan McW

There's some good news about Maverick, pending a DVD set. Encore Westerns will be airing it weekdays this summer, after a July 4 marathon to launch the run, and has Lawman, Cheyenne, and How the West Was Won waiting in the wings.

Universal's Wagon Train and The Virginian also appear to be in the hopper at Encore, although a press release on Encore's site mixes those titles in with a list of licensed Universal films. Since the '40s Virginian film is already in Encore's stable, surely that refers to the '60s TV series, which the Westerns channel has aired before.

The press release mentions WB series "such as" those four I listed, so maybe others in Richard's first post could turn up on Westerns or another Encore channel.

Starz Bulks Up Movie Line-Up - Jan 23, 2008

Wow, that's really good news.

The short answer to the original question, though, is that those in charge of releases these days are too young to remember the vintage programs that many of us loved. Therefore, they don't really know what they have.

Sky King · 05-14-2008, 06:19 AM

While I applaud Warner Brothers for releasing "The Adventures Of Superman" on DVD, it's apparent their heart really wasn't in it.
Aside from the fact that the visual quality of the prints, especially the B/W episodes, was subpar, they didn't even pay Noel Neill (Lois Lane) or Jack Larson (Jimmy Olsen) for their appearances in this DVD set. Noel and Jack did it gratis, for the love of the show.
This DVD set could have been SO MUCH BETTER !!!

Jeff Willis · 05-14-2008, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan McW

There's some good news about Maverick, pending a DVD set. Encore Westerns will be airing it weekdays this summer, after a July 4 marathon to launch the run, and has Lawman, Cheyenne, and How the West Was Won waiting in the wings.

Dan,

Thanks for the info on the Encore plans! I've wanted "How The West Was Won" (assuming this is the 70's miniseries with James Arness) on DVD for a long time. I'm hoping that this means a studio DVD release is more of a possibility for these shows, as we've seen happen with some other shows after an Encore run (Time Tunnel, etc).

Mike*SC · 05-14-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Levine

One reason is they often don't feel it's worth their time/resources.

Indeed, it's not as simple as just saying "You want to release it? Fine! Give me the money and I'll tell you where to find it." And it's not simply that elements must be unearthed (not just finished episodes -- if there are issues of music substitution, for instance, the elements must be delivered with clean, music-free audio). It's that binding contracts with people involved with the original show are still in force, regardless of whether the original studio licenses the property. Money is still owed, in some cases artwork must be approved, and on and on. And Warner Bros. cannot simply shrug and say "Hey, we didn't do it!" if somebody objects. They are still the responsible party.

All this takes time and money, regardless of who's releasing the actual DVDs. And this is not money Warner Bros. would just swallow -- they'd need to pass the cost on to the licensor.

So who knows? Maybe Warner Bros. has considered licensing some of their shows out. Perhaps they've even offered to, and the potential buyer has balked at the price. I have no idea.

The point is, it seems easy to say that they should let somebody else take the risk, at little cost to them. But other risks remain, and the cost is rarely little.

FrosteyV · 05-14-2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan McW

There's some good news about Maverick, pending a DVD set. Encore Westerns will be airing it weekdays this summer, after a July 4 marathon to launch the run, and has Lawman, Cheyenne, and How the West Was Won waiting in the wings.

Universal's Wagon Train and The Virginian also appear to be in the hopper at Encore, although a press release on Encore's site mixes those titles in with a list of licensed Universal films. Since the '40s Virginian film is already in Encore's stable, surely that refers to the '60s TV series, which the Westerns channel has aired before.

The press release mentions WB series "such as" those four I listed, so maybe others in Richard's first post could turn up on Westerns or another Encore channel.