Are we Spoiled? - Page 2

Gary OS · 03-09-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickER

You have to remember that many of the younger people dont remember a day without a VCR. They cannot understand that a time existed, and it was not that long ago, that you couldnt watch whatever you wanted. But when your 20-25, 25 or 30 years ago seems like a long time. And all the TV shows from their era, most of them like ARE all out on DVD, or you COULD have taped them.

Rick, I agree with you. But I believe the original poster and Hank are saying that we should even have the older shows on tape because many of them were run in the late 70's or early 80's on certain fledgling cable networks. Either that or we should have been taping and trading with people in the late 70's and early 80's - not an inexpensive hobby. If I'm wrong and these guys are only referencing shows that have aired in the last 10 to 15 years, then I don't disagree with them and I apologize. But I can't see any reasonable argument that says all of us should have, in our personal collections, those shows from the 50's and 60's that haven't aired in two or three decades.

And the other point is that even with a few of the older shows still being aired, you have to put up with cuts and horrible bugs. For instance, I love LEAVE IT TO BEAVER but I'm not about to archive the show using TVLand as my source. That thing is a monstrosity at this point and I will not waste my time archiving something so cut up and mutilated with animated, loud bugs whose audio overrides the dialog on the show. No way am I doing that.

And here's my last point on the collecting side of things. The reality is that even if someone has a collection of an obscure 1950's show I'm interested in, the chances are very great that the quality is going to be pretty poor. I've received my fair share of tapes where the quality was obscene. But I had already made the trade or bought it outright. No getting my money back on those things. So to me it's almost not worth it to spend a bunch of money on poor quality prints. I'm not looking for pristine prints, but some stuff is almost unwatchable. Therefore you have to take that into consideration when talk about old vhs tapes come into play. It's just not the same as getting studio prints.

Gary "hope that explains my position more clearly" O.

RickER · 03-09-2008, 03:21 PM

I agree Gary. I want The Six Million Dollar Man, but i want it on R1. I didnt keep the tapes off Sci-Fi 10 years ago cause they cut the hell out of it. I dont like the little TV bugs either, and even worse NOW, the pop ups!
Like you, i would rather live with my pleasant memory, then spend money on crap transfers or worse, edits!
I am happy with what i have for the most part. I have Land of the Lost and Ark II, among others. Shows i didnt think i would ever see again in my life! Shows that have turned up maybe one other time in the last 35 years! I wish i had more Adam-12. Yea, i am happy for the one season i have. To bad its on DVD 18s, as one of my discs is craping out...oh well, no point crying over spilt milk, as they say. I know you love Leave it to Beaver, and i bet your happy as can be to have the 2 seasons that are out. I tend to think you will see the others, sooner, and not later. But as i said, at least we have the memory, and we are not spoiled by TV on DVD.

As many times as i have brought up The Six Million Dollar Man, Jeff Willis cant be far behind.

Gary OS · 03-09-2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickER

As many times as i have brought up The Six Million Dollar Man, Jeff Willis cant be far behind.

Yes, my good buddy Jeff Willis needs to post more often. I've missed his upbeat comments and frankly, this board can use all the upbeat posts it can get.

Gary "Jeff Willis is a quality person" O.

Bert Greene · 03-09-2008, 03:41 PM

It really was great in the 80s, when the burgeoning cable channels were filling up their schedules with slews of old series. Every time you turned around, some new tv-rarity from the 50s/60s/70s would be given a run. Even fairly short-lived series. I tried my best to tape and preserve what I could, although it wasn't too much, thanks to a limited budget which greatly constrained me.

There is one thing that really gets to me, though. Initially, there were about 5 or 6 cable/satellite channels, then 10 or 12, then 20...and even without any special prognostic abilities, there was anticipation it would grow to 50 and 100 and more in the future, as indeed occurred. Under these circumstances, I would never, ever, have predicted that so many classic shows would disappear entirely, and be absent from view for 15-20-25 whopping years. With technology allowing a twenty-fold increase in channels/outlets, who in blue blazes would have imagined that classic standards like "Jack Benny," "Ben Casey," or "Make Room for Daddy" would be shoved aside and go unseen for DECADES? How could shows like "The Fugitive" or "Father Knows Best" become all-out rarities? That's what boggles my mind. Over 200 bloomin' channels. Think about it. That's a LOT of channels. Regardless of the usual arguments involving demographics and audience shares, am I supposed to think that, flipping through each of those 200 channels and wading through the tons of schlock they serve up, there's not a SINGLE damn place for a "Fugitive" rerun? Even at 1:00am?

It's probably a moot point, anyway, as any airings would undoubtedly be chopped to pieces, and inflicted with an assortment of grotesque pop-ups. In fact, I've all but written off commercial/cable television. As for dvd's, I think my obsession for them is directly attributed to the (aforementioned) long dry-spell of classic rerun fare. I want to 'own' copies of these shows, hold them in my hands, and just know that I have instant access to them any time I desire. I'm rarely inclined to really complain about anything (well, other than the travesty that is being made of "Route 66" on dvd, an all-time favorite of mine). I'm just thrilled when anything comes out, even if most of the tv-material that I'm really interested in has yet to be tapped, and remain unlikely candidates for dvd-release. So, I don't know about being 'spoiled.' I mostly just feel very, very grateful for this whole dvd trend, shortcomings and all.

Gary OS · 03-09-2008, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bert Greene

There is one thing that really gets to me, though. Initially, there were about 5 or 6 cable/satellite channels, then 10 or 12, then 20...and even without any special prognostic abilities, there was anticipation it would grow to 50 and 100 and more in the future, as indeed occurred. Under these circumstances, I would never, ever, have predicted that so many classic shows would disappear entirely, and be absent from view for 15-20-25 whopping years. With technology allowing a twenty-fold increase in channels/outlets, who in blue blazes would have imagined that classic standards like "Jack Benny," "Ben Casey," or "Make Room for Daddy" would be shoved aside and go unseen for DECADES? How could shows like "The Fugitive" or "Father Knows Best" become all-out rarities? That's what boggles my mind. Over 200 bloomin' channels. Think about it. That's a LOT of channels. Regardless of the usual arguments involving demographics and audience shares, am I supposed to think that, flipping through each of those 200 channels and wading through the tons of schlock they serve up, there's not a SINGLE damn place for a "Fugitive" rerun? Even at 1:00am?

It's probably a moot point, anyway, as any airings would undoubtedly be chopped to pieces, and inflicted with an assortment of grotesque pop-ups. In fact, I've all but written off commercial/cable television. As for dvd's, I think my obsession for them is directly attributed to the (aforementioned) long dry-spell of classic rerun fare. I want to 'own' copies of these shows, hold them in my hands, and just know that I have instant access to them any time I desire. I'm rarely inclined to really complain about anything (well, other than the travesty that is being made of "Route 66" on dvd, an all-time favorite of mine). I'm just thrilled when anything comes out, even if most of the tv-material that I'm really interested in has yet to be tapped, and remain unlikely candidates for dvd-release. So, I don't know about being 'spoiled.' I mostly just feel very, very grateful for this whole dvd trend, shortcomings and all.

Excellent! I can always count on Bert to express my feelings so eloquently. I agree with everything you wrote, buddy.

Gary "it really is amazing that with all the options, station-wise, the classics are still losing ground and losing it quickly - who'd have ever thought it would get this bad" O.

RickER · 03-09-2008, 04:05 PM

Your post is very true Bert. You know, even when these old show do turn up, without ads to promote them, just like you would see for a new show, no one will tune in. And, no one will buy the DVDs. Nobody but people that already know what it is. Plenty of old shows i never watched as a kid, or i was to young to know what i was seeing, turn up with no fanfare at all! To be honest, if a 44 year old guy who loves classic TV doesnt know about a show, i would imagine that few others would. Lets take The High Chaparrall from your list Gary. The only thing i remember is the theme (great theme by the way), and a few of the stars. Beyond that all i have is the faint memory of watching it with my dad. I couldnt have been any older than 5. My dad doesnt buy many DVDs, and he wouldnt even know if this show was out, or even on TV, because they wouldnt show any ads for DVD, or TV.

Hank Dearborn · 03-09-2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TravisR

That's it. They became collectors when DVDs started coming out. Not everyone knows collectors who have a warehouse of 3/4 inch tapes of every network broadcast dating back to the 1970's and 16mm prints for everything else.

Do you know such a person? Because I sure don't.

Hank Dearborn · 03-09-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary OS

Rick, I agree with you. But I believe the original poster and Hank are saying that we should even have the older shows on tape because many of them were run in the late 70's or early 80's on certain fledgling cable networks. Either that or we should have been taping and trading with people in the late 70's and early 80's - not an inexpensive hobby. If I'm wrong and these guys are only referencing shows that have aired in the last 10 to 15 years, then I don't disagree with them and I apologize. But I can't see any reasonable argument that says all of us should have, in our personal collections, those shows from the 50's and 60's that haven't aired in two or three decades.

And the other point is that even with a few of the older shows still being aired, you have to put up with cuts and horrible bugs. For instance, I love LEAVE IT TO BEAVER but I'm not about to archive the show using TVLand as my source. That thing is a monstrosity at this point and I will not waste my time archiving something so cut up and mutilated with animated, loud bugs whose audio overrides the dialog on the show. No way am I doing that.

And here's my last point on the collecting side of things. The reality is that even if someone has a collection of an obscure 1950's show I'm interested in, the chances are very great that the quality is going to be pretty poor. I've received my fair share of tapes where the quality was obscene. But I had already made the trade or bought it outright. No getting my money back on those things. So to me it's almost not worth it to spend a bunch of money on poor quality prints. I'm not looking for pristine prints, but some stuff is almost unwatchable. Therefore you have to take that into consideration when talk about old vhs tapes come into play. It's just not the same as getting studio prints.

Gary "hope that explains my position more clearly" O.

There are many people who's circumstances didn't allow them to record shows, especially in the early days of the hobby. Where I lived it was very frustrating because cable didn't come to my part of NY until late 1990. And I didn't make decent money until around 1987 or so, therefore before that I had to spend a good percentage of my income on the hobby. So I missed the great boom of rare reruns, at least being able to tape them myself. I had to beg and plead with people to try to get things like Mr. Novak recorded. Living in NY, which was always a terrible market - no cable, too few independent stations, everything cut to pieces - it was quite challenging to be a collector.
But getting back to the point about recording, I can see why so few people did this in the late 70s when prices on everything were high, but what about the late 80s or the 90s? Or even today. How many posters do you read complaining about these new shows that are filled with these treacly pop songs that get released and all of the music is changed? Now I couldn't care less about 99% of modern television but at the cost of blank DVDRs, something like 25 cents a disc, why is this still an issue? But yet you still read the same whining complaints over and over.

Regarding LITB, I know that it ran on TV Land for a long time. Was it on in the early days when they ran many of their shows uncut? I don't know the answer but that would have been a great chance to get them. I'm sorry I didn't have access to the channel as they ran other shows complete as well, like Bilko, which it looks like we'll never see.

RickER · 03-09-2008, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Dearborn

How many posters do you read complaining about these new shows that are filled with these treacly pop songs that get released and all of the music is changed? Now I couldn't care less about 99% of modern television but at the cost of blank DVDRs, something like 25 cents a disc, why is this still an issue? But yet you still read the same whining complaints over and over.

I agree Hank, i hate 99% of the stuff thats on TV too. But, the stuff i do like, Battlestar Galactica, and Doctor Who (funny, both remakes of old shows) i wouldnt record off TV because of the damn pop-up ads, and bugs in the corner. Pop-ups alone almost make me turn off TV. I wouldnt even have satellite, but my wife LOVES her football.