Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released? - Page 13

Jaime_Weinman · 04-20-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Levine

Wow. If the numbers in the full article are correct ("...which could have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per episode."), then my guess at 1 million dollars would be WAY short.

We could hardly know for sure unless we got an idea of every song used and how much it would cost, but I doubt that figure. Let's say a real rock recording usually costs somewhere in the tens of thousands. Some of the WKRP episodes, the ones that used six or seven songs, could therefore cost over $100,000. But most of the episodes didn't use six or seven songs; it was usually more like two or three.

There's no doubt that even keeping "essential" songs would cost hundreds of thousands for the entire set. Multi-millions, probably not. In any case, it's kind of moot because Fox's music budget for this set was clearly well below anything reasonable.

Bob Hug · 04-20-2007, 04:23 PM

"WKRP" aside for the moment, what's a revelation for me in the article is the sales of "The Mary Tyler Moore Show." Season 1 did 150,000 units, so that means that the other three seasons released to date averaged 75,000 units. Although this is just one show, it's fascinating to see the drop-off in sales after the season 1 release. I wonder how many other series released on DVD have this sort of drop in sales after the first season.

pitchman · 04-20-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaime_Weinman

That's a really good (and fair to both sides) article, and I don't just say that because I'm quoted in it.

I guess so.

Personally, I have a problem with Fox rationalizing away everything due to poor sales of Mary Tyler Moore (of which I own all 4 of the released-so-far sets) and then using that as a barometer to gauge the sales worthiness of future MTM (and non) programs as potential TV on DVD releases. I just think using Mary Tyler Moore this way is bad.

First off, MTM played to death in reruns on Nick at Nite for over two decades. And, as much as I personally love the program, the comedy gets pretty dated sometimes. Also, and most importantly, MTM is one of those shows that got better and funnier as it went along, IMO.

When you get right down to it, the first season of MTM is just not its best. I do give Fox credit though for doing a bang-up job with that first season. In fact, based entirely on the quality of that set, I continued to buy each subsequent release. That is the point I was trying to make many posts ago. If you do a quality job the first time around, it pays dividends down the road.

At the end of the day, I can't buy into the rationalization that since Mary Tyler Moore didn't sell well, neither will WKRP. They are totally different programs that appeal to entirely different demographics.

RickER · 04-20-2007, 06:32 PM

FOX cuts every corner it can with TV on DVD, but they didnt used to. I cant see WKRP music costing more than say music did for the first season of Happy Days, and we know that was a million to clear that. Course Paramount went cheap for season 2. But at least they tried with season 1! I might say that Earl could sell more than 300,000 units if it had all its music used. At least Earl had SOME of the original music. Northern Exposure had SOME of its music intact too. How much original music does WKRP have...none?

Brian Himes · 04-20-2007, 07:08 PM

So, season 1 of Mary Tyler Moore sold 150,000 units and this is considered poor sales? Hmmm.....interesting. I find that a little hard to swallow. I don't know how many units Fox expected to sell of Mary Tyler Moore season 1, but I think that 150,000 units for a 30 year old sitcom is pretty good. Maybe Fox is expecting too much. I don't know. I do know that Fox did little in the way of promoting Mary Tyler Moore. I didn't see or read one thing about season 1 coming out. I just happen to see it on the store shelf and picked it up.

I think that using Mary Tyler Moore as your marker for WKRP is a mistake. And it doesn't make any sense to give WKRP the same kind of budget that Mary Tyler Moore got. Sure, I know that they have to use something to get an idea how many to manufacture and judge costs, but...I don't know. Couldn't they find someting a little more realistic to judge it against?

This whole thing is just one big mess. I'm over this whole music replacement issue, and music licensing costs. It all just give me a headache.

David Levine · 04-20-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Hug

I wonder how many other series released on DVD have this sort of drop in sales after the first season.

Pretty much all of them.

Some shows like 24 or The Shield keep a higher retention rate, but they all drop a lot after the first set. I'd say if a 2nd season does 65% of the 1st it's doing amazingly well. Most see at least a 50% dip and it gets worse as each sucessive box comes out.

As an example of how strong 1st seasons are, going back to 24, the 1st season, in 2007, is still outselling all the other seasons on a week-to-week basis.

Now studios know this and they plan for the degredation, but sometimes it does get to a point where it isn't worth continuing. And other shows will probably never stop. The 9th season of the Simpsons has sold 18% of what the 1st season did, but it's still outselling most new releases and a HUGE number of 1st seasons of other shows. The numbers are that crazy.

Elena S · 04-20-2007, 09:16 PM

Aren't music and voice tracks recorded separately? If that's the case, then why didn't they just remove or replace the songs that were underneath the dialogue rather than cut the scenes altogether?

RickER · 04-20-2007, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elena S

Aren't music and voice tracks recorded separately? If that's the case, then why didn't they just remove or replace the songs that were underneath the dialogue rather than cut the scenes altogether?

I bet with a show that old, and done on video tape to boot, nothing exists except the episode master tapes. I know you can go back and take out sounds you dont want, but once again that costs money.

MatthewA · 04-20-2007, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elena S

Aren't music and voice tracks recorded separately? If that's the case, then why didn't they just remove or replace the songs that were underneath the dialogue rather than cut the scenes altogether?

I think that is only the case for film-based TV shows. I might be wrong.

Gord Lacey · 04-21-2007, 12:28 AM

Guys, Randy is giving us a "writer's cut" version of his article while we'll be running on Monday, and it'll answer some of the questions that have come up from the information in his article (he even addresses one of the posts here). Trust me, it's great stuff, and further explains what went on with the set, and takes a closer look at the MTM sales. Something tells me this will be a hot topic for awhile yet.

Gord

Traveling Matt · 04-21-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Hug

I wonder how many other series released on DVD have this sort of drop in sales after the first season.

Bob,

I could be wrong here, but I think it is the nature of the business that, in general, almost all tv series drop in sales as each progressive season is released on DVD. That's why the first season of a show is often the strongest in terms of quality (ie: remastering of materials, quantity of bonus features, etc).