Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released? - Page 12

David Levine · 04-19-2007, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitchman

But I think the "serious fan" customer base is strong enough that if Fox offered an alternative UNCUT season one DVD of WKRP for $100-$125, they would still have enough takers to turn a tidy little profit on the deal.

I don't.

Since we have no real point of reference, I'm going to use the number that's been thrown around to clear Freaks & Geeks - 1 Million Dollars.

Say it costs Fox 1M to totally clear WKRP. And let's say they decided to sell it to the mass merchants. Maybe they do 250,000 units. If that's the case, you have to add $4.00 to the cost of goods for each set. In turn that means an $8.00 jump in MSRP since the retailers are going to want 50 points. That's do-able and could turn a profit. But what if they project 100,000 units? Then you're looking at a $10.00 cost of goods per unit, and roughly a $20.00 bump in MSRP. Will you still sell your estimated 100K, or now with that daunting price point, maybe only 50,000 sell through and you have to eat 50,000 units in return. That's a losing deal because each of of those units returned has probably $15-20.00 of their money already in it. Then all they can do is try to discount the heck out of them to get some money back. I can see why they'd be gunshy about this route.

So now let's look at a high end set for the "serious collector". Maybe they get lucky and sell 10,000 pieces. That's a $100.00 added to the cost of goods. If it's sold through retail stores, you're looking at around a 200.00 box set for a single season of a sit-com. That won't fly. They could sell it themselves to cut out the middle-man, but now you have to figure out how to sell (website, TV spots? etc), and if Fox isn't already set up to sell directly to consumers, that's a big problem. Maybe by selling it themselves, they can cut the price to 150.00, but suddenly, you aren't really making a whole lot of money for your effort. 10,000 x maybe 40.00 net profit = 400K. Not a lot of money for a studio like Fox.

And what if you end up only selling 5000 or 2500? You can't price it at 300-600.00, so you are going to lose big money on the deal and people are going to get fired for attempting this. I mean if only 2500 people ordered a 150.00 set, they'd actually lose over $250.00 on each set. That's over a 600,000 net loss.

I'm glad we didn't have the property. I'm not sure there is a way to win with it.

george kaplan · 04-19-2007, 07:56 AM

Pop quiz:

The cut/butchered/edited/music-replaced dvd of WKRP : The Real WKRP as

a) Les Nessman's tape : Real walls
b) Herb Tarlek's clothes : Great fashion
c) Dr. Fever : Real MD
d) Turkeys : Birds that can fly
e) all of the above

Jaime_Weinman · 04-19-2007, 10:27 AM

The thing is, there's a midpoint between clearing all the music (therefore necessitating a huge price) and cutting out almost all the music, which is what Fox has done.

If Fox had cleared some of the songs -- let's say, clear songs that were intertwined with dialogue (instead of just cutting up scenes, which is what they've done), they would have had to price the set higher, but how much higher? Not $100, certainly. It would be more like $49.99, which is comparable to the price for a set of The Simpsons, which uses maybe one or two real songs per episode.

The problem is, I think, that ever since they lost money on the Mary Tyler Moore Show Season 1, Fox doesn't want to release any non-current TV show at a list price over $39.99. But I think they made a mistake in trying to release WKRP on a budget that would justify that price level. You don't have to clear everything to get a legitimate WKRP release, but you've got to have the budget to clear something.

Brian Himes · 04-19-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaime_Weinman

The thing is, there's a midpoint between clearing all the music (therefore necessitating a huge price) and cutting out almost all the music, which is what Fox has done.

If Fox had cleared some of the songs -- let's say, clear songs that were intertwined with dialogue (instead of just cutting up scenes, which is what they've done), they would have had to price the set higher, but how much higher? Not $100, certainly. It would be more like $49.99, which is comparable to the price for a set of The Simpsons, which uses maybe one or two real songs per episode.

The problem is, I think, that ever since they lost money on the Mary Tyler Moore Show Season 1, Fox doesn't want to release any non-current TV show at a list price under $39.99. But I think they made a mistake in trying to release WKRP on a budget that would justify that price level. You don't have to clear everything to get a legitimate WKRP release, but you've got to have the budget to clear something.

I think that this sums things up pretty well.

I don't think that Fox was in a 'no win' situation with WKRP. There was a middle ground that they could have tried for instead of butchering the show just to sell it at a budget price.

It's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out come April 24. I think a clear message is going to be sent to Fox over these issues with WKRP. Unfortunately, it's the fans that are in a 'no win' situation. If we buy this release, then we're tellilng Fox that this is acceptable. If we don't buy it, then ther rest of the series will not be released.

The whole thing is just one big mess.

Jon Martin · 04-19-2007, 11:53 AM

But as mentioned earlier, just how much say does Fox have in this?

It is an MTM property. Fox didn't have anything to do with the production of the series. Does Fox now own it outright? Are there deals in place that cuts down on any potential profit?

Jaime_Weinman · 04-19-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Martin

It is an MTM property. Fox didn't have anything to do with the production of the series. Does Fox now own it outright?

Yes. Fox bought out MTM in the late '90s and they now own all the MTM properties. MTM no longer exists, basically.

Matt.Koz · 04-19-2007, 12:12 PM

As much as I'm disappointed in the cuts and music substitutions, I will buy this. I guess I fall into the some is better than none camp. I do respect others' decision not to purchase but I'll buy this and hope that Fox will release season 2 and put a little more care into it or at least buy me some time until episodes become available for download with original music.

One can dream.

HenryDuBrow · 04-19-2007, 02:28 PM

I got my set today, looking forward to see the damage for myself. Knowing that it's a potential big seller, if we assume for a moment it'll do well, anyone think Fox will revisit the series later with more care and songs cleared?

Brian Himes · 04-19-2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HenryDuBrow

I got my set today, looking forward to see the damage for myself. Knowing that it's a potential big seller, if we assume for a moment it'll do well, anyone think Fox will revisit the series later with more care and songs cleared?

I doubt it.

pitchman · 04-19-2007, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Levine

I don't.

Say it costs Fox 1M to totally clear WKRP. And let's say they decided to sell it to the mass merchants. Maybe they do 250,000 units. If that's the case, you have to add $4.00 to the cost of goods for each set. In turn that means an $8.00 jump in MSRP since the retailers are going to want 50 points. That's do-able and could turn a profit. But what if they project 100,000 units? Then you're looking at a $10.00 cost of goods per unit, and roughly a $20.00 bump in MSRP. Will you still sell your estimated 100K, or now with that daunting price point, maybe only 50,000 sell through and you have to eat 50,000 units in return. That's a losing deal because each of of those units returned has probably $15-20.00 of their money already in it. Then all they can do is try to discount the heck out of them to get some money back. I can see why they'd be gunshy about this route.

I'm glad we didn't have the property. I'm not sure there is a way to win with it.

David, I appreciate your well thought out response.

If that is the reality of the current marketplace, then that is fairly sobering news.

Is there a reason that DVD manufacturers can't go the way of record labels with a vanity type subdivision for these types of release. I am thinking specifically of the great success that Rhino has had with their Rhino Handmade division, or Hip-O with their Hip-O Select. They sell strictly limited edition (and usually numbered) box sets of 5,000 or less directly on the Web. Some titles take time to sell out while others sell out in a matter of days or weeks. Those that do usually wind up on eBay at three or four times their original selling price.

If you were take this approach with WKRP, would it be possible to offer up 50,000 season sets at $100 ea. and sell them exclusively through the Fox Web site? No point sharing with retailers. Every dollar from every copy sold goes right back to Fox. Also, this may be a pipedream so excuse my ignorance here, but could licensing fees be negotiated downward due to the fact that they are clearing for a fixed number of units?

Bob Hug · 04-19-2007, 04:04 PM

Despite the negative advance publicity, "WKRP" is currently ranked at #69 for DVDs at Amazon; make of it what you will.