What is the OAR for High School Musical 1 and 2?

Rolando · 03-25-2008, 08:44 AM

Hi guys, hope you can help.

A quick search here did not turn up anything and going to IMDB did not help. Looks like both were made for TV movies so my theory is must 4:3 especially since we are talking about Disney. However I did see 1:1.78 on IMDB (not that they are 100% reliable but..) and I thought well maybe it was shot HD.

I want to get these for my daughter (she LOVES THEM!) and want to make sure I get the right one. Obvioulsy want OAR. I don't want to look for widescreen if it does not exist or if it is a tilt and scan version that hides top and bottom info that was meant to be seen.

So what is the intended OAR and are they both available on DVD and Blu-Ray?

thanks in advance guys!

**HTF Ads**

JeremyErwin · 03-25-2008, 09:58 AM

quoth the wikipedia

Quote:

Despite being filmed in the 1.85:1 aspect ratio, both the original and Remix Edition DVD releases featured a 1.33:1 "full screen" version (though not pan and scan as the camera stays directly in the center of the image), the format of the film as shown on the Disney Channel. The widescreen and high definition versions have subsequently been showing in the UK on BBC One, BBC Two, and BBC HD.

And dvd talk says

Quote:

(A note on that aspect ratio: the film was shot in a 1.85:1 format, as evident in footage seen in the disc's making-of, which features clips from the movie in hard-matted widescreen. However, it was broadcast in a pan-and-scanned 1.33:1 ratio, the same ratio seen here on the DVD. Not one single shot of this cropped image seems to be missing any information - in fact, it looks to be framed quite well in 1.33:1. So well, in fact, that I would assume the movie was intended for the standard broadcast ratio, but was filmed with some extra padding on the sides, a little bit of spare image that could be included in any future high definition broadcasts/video releases. Disney's choice to release this with only a full screen option should therefore not be viewed as a slight at all.)

Essentially, it's your choice.

MattH. · 03-25-2008, 10:17 AM

Yes, the standard DVD editions of HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL and HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL 2 are only available in full frame editions.

The Blu-ray disc of HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL 2 (the original hasn't come out on Blu-ray yet) is widescreen (there is no 1.33:1 option).

I found the widescreen framing much more exhilarating to watch (and of course, color, clarity, and dimensionality were increased in spades on BD) and felt that it helped the big production numbers gain more excitement on the Blu-ray over the full frame presentation on the sDVD. My colleague Ken McAlinden disagreed and didn't find the full frame presentation suffered at all.

Douglas Monce · 03-25-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyErwin

quoth the wikipedia

And dvd talk says

Essentially, it's your choice.

DVDtalk has their information a little bit off. If this show was shot on film, then the extra padding wouldn't be on the sides, it would be on the top and bottom of the frame as that is the area that is covered by the matte to get the 1.85:1 frame.

The upshot of this is that there is no panning and scanning if the open matte area was used for the full frame version. You are just seeing the image area that is normally covered by the projector aperture plate. If this is the case then you aren't loosing any image at all. The only problem with this is if they weren't careful keep lights and mics out of this image area. But as this was primarily made for television, I have to assume it was actually framed with 1.33:1 in mind.

Doug

Ockeghem · 03-25-2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolando

Hi guys, hope you can help.

A quick search here did not turn up anything and going to IMDB did not help. Looks like both were made for TV movies so my theory is must 4:3 especially since we are talking about Disney. However I did see 1:1.78 on IMDB (not that they are 100% reliable but..) and I thought well maybe it was shot HD.

I want to get these for my daughter (she LOVES THEM!) and want to make sure I get the right one. Obvioulsy want OAR. I don't want to look for widescreen if it does not exist or if it is a tilt and scan version that hides top and bottom info that was meant to be seen.

So what is the intended OAR and are they both available on DVD and Blu-Ray?

thanks in advance guys!

Rolando,

I hope you get a chance to check out the music selections (special features) from High School Musical 2. The English and French versions of Gotta Go My Own Way (performed by fourteen-year old Nikki Yanofsky) are excellent as far as intonation and attack are concerned. Her québécois is a tad unusual if you're not used to hearing it, but I loved it. And her scat singing (not on these DVDs) is astonishing; examples of that may be found elsewhere if you or your daughter are interested in hearing it.

Ken_McAlinden · 03-25-2008, 02:45 PM

The 16:9 version of High School Musical 2 was also broadcast in HD by DirecTV a couple of weeks after it was originally broadcast in 4:3 SD on the Disney Channel.

Regards,

Rolando · 03-25-2008, 08:05 PM

Actually Douglas if DVDtalk is right about the first part of the quote: "[quote]A note on that aspect ratio: the film was shot in a 1.85:1 format, as evident in footage seen in the disc's making-of, which features clips from the movie in hard-matted widescreen.[/QUOTE]

then there is extra stuff on the sides that is cut off on the PAN and SCAN version as opposed to extra stuff revealed since hard matte means the "top and bottom" info on a 35mm print were never filmed on.

Douglas Monce · 03-25-2008, 08:19 PM

[quote=Rolando]Actually Douglas if DVDtalk is right about the first part of the quote: "

Quote:

A note on that aspect ratio: the film was shot in a 1.85:1 format, as evident in footage seen in the disc's making-of, which features clips from the movie in hard-matted widescreen.[/QUOTE]

then there is extra stuff on the sides that is cut off on the PAN and SCAN version as opposed to extra stuff revealed since hard matte means the "top and bottom" info on a 35mm print were never filmed on.

Well thats why I said IF the open matte was used for the full screen version. Shooting hard matte is actually pretty rare. Most films intended for theatrical distribution aren't shot hard matted much less a TV movie. I haven't actually seen High School Musical but I'm having a hard time believing that something that was always intended to be shown on the Disney Channel would be shot hard matted.

This would reduce their options in addition to reducing the image quality to virtually 16mm image area, if the 1.33 extraction area is with in the 1.85:1 hard matte. If this were shot in HD this would make since, but it is listed as having been shot in 35mm film. I guess if they are actually seeing extra image area on the sides in the HD footage thats on thing, but I find it very unlikely.

Doug

Ken_McAlinden · 03-26-2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

Well thats why I said IF the open matte was used for the full screen version. Shooting hard matte is actually pretty rare. Most films intended for theatrical distribution aren't shot hard matted much less a TV movie. I haven't actually seen High School Musical but I'm having a hard time believing that something that was always intended to be shown on the Disney Channel would be shot hard matted.

This would reduce their options in addition to reducing the image quality to virtually 16mm image area, if the 1.33 extraction area is with in the 1.85:1 hard matte. If this were shot in HD this would make since, but it is listed as having been shot in 35mm film. I guess if they are actually seeing extra image area on the sides in the HD footage thats on thing, but I find it very unlikely.

I do not know exactly how it was shot, but it is possible that it was shot in 3-perf super 35 which would have a native resolution of 16:9. This is very common for television productions. The 16:9 becomes the "open matte" version and the 4:3 center extraction becomes the "matted" version. Super 16mm is essentially the same deal (native 16:9 with a 4:3 center extraction when composing to support both aspect ratios).

Regards,

MattH. · 03-26-2008, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken_McAlinden

I do not know exactly how it was shot, but it is possible that it was shot in 3-perf super 35 which would have a native resolution of 16:9. This is very common for television productions. The 16:9 becomes the "open matte" version and the 4:3 center extraction becomes the "matted" version. Super 16mm is essentially the same deal (native 16:9 with a 4:3 center extraction when composing to support both aspect ratios).

Regards,

I believe Ken is exactly right about this. If you watch any of the featurettes showing filming in progress and look at the video monitors, you can see that both 4:3 and 16:9 framings are being accounted for on the monitor screen.

Jack Theakston · 03-26-2008, 08:28 PM

Most TV Movies and TV shows are shot open matte at 1.85:1 in case the TV deal falls through-- the unusued show can be edited into a feature-length film that can be released in movie theaters.

Usually in transfer or (in the day) during the live film chain, a significant amount of space on both the tops and sides are cropped off in overscan. This area, known as "TV Safe," is marked in the cameraman's viewfinders and coincedentally falls just below the 16x9 mark.

KUNG-FU, BATMAN, and VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA are but a few vintage TV shows that were shot this way. Other shows, such as THE TWILIGHT ZONE, for whatever reason, were not.

Douglas Monce · 03-26-2008, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Theakston

Most TV Movies and TV shows are shot open matte at 1.85:1 in case the TV deal falls through-- the unusued show can be edited into a feature-length film that can be released in movie theaters.

Usually in transfer or (in the day) during the live film chain, a significant amount of space on both the tops and sides are cropped off in overscan. This area, known as "TV Safe," is marked in the cameraman's viewfinders and coincedentally falls just below the 16x9 mark.

KUNG-FU, BATMAN, and VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA are but a few vintage TV shows that were shot this way. Other shows, such as THE TWILIGHT ZONE, for whatever reason, were not.

Exactly which makes much more sense than extracting the 4x3 image from with in the 16x9 image area.

Add The Man From U.N.C.L.E. to that list. They specifically shot two part episodes knowing they would be released theatrically in Europe.

Also I remember as a kid reading in TV guide that the Fall Guy was being shot protected for 1.85:1 not for theatrical release, but for future use on HDTVs. This was back in 1981. Ironically when it was released on DVD it was done full frame 1.33.

Doug