THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: Warner wants your input.....

Ronald Epstein · 07-24-2007, 03:40 PM

I had an extended conversation with Warner Brothers today about
their plans to put THE BOWERY BOYS out on DVD. After all,
these films have been amongst the most requested titles that the studio
has not yet released to the format.

The truth of the matter is that Warner could have released many of
the 48 1-hour films at any time. In fact, there were plans to release
the first 6 films as early back as 2005. The problem has always been,
however, that the studio didn't want to do a half-ass job for the fans.

Based on the feedback the studio received during prior HTF chats and
related threads, it seemed that most people wanted the studio to wait
to obtain the best elements possible and then release the films in
chronological order.

Let me begin by talking about one title in particular that has become
a huge stumbling block in getting these movies out: Mister Hex,
which was released in 1946. Right now, what Warner has on hand
is a 16mm print that has been duplicated over several times. The
transfer is filled with burn marks and splices -- the sort of transfer
you would find in a bargain bin from an obscure company. In fact,
to make matters worse, the studio doesn't even have a complete
negative, though they are continually optimistic they will eventually
find a 35mm print from a collector.

The rest of the titles in the Bowery Boys catalog look mostly
acceptable, and because of that, the DVDs would be priced according to
quality. What this means is that the titles would be available at budget
prices.

The studio feels they can get the Bowery Boys films out rather quickly.

What they need to know is whether all of you would support a
"Best of" release plus added features, with hopes of doing a
chronological effort at a later time.

We are posting a poll to obtain your feedback. Additionally, you
can be assured that the folks from Warner Brothers will be reading
your comments. Be polite!

LaurenceGarvey · 07-24-2007, 06:08 PM

I have never understood why some folks insist on "chronological" releases. Warners didn't do a chronological release of their Fred & Ginger films, their films noir, or most of their other releases. The first batch of Bowery Boys films, chronologically, are not as strong as their later films (they're much more closely related to the crime-type melodrama/comedies of the East Side Kids days than they would be to the later comedy-oriented Bowery Boys we know and love) and a casual movie buff sampling the series with a "Chronological Vol. 1" might well eschew future purchases. I urge Warners to go with a "Best of the Bowery Boys" Vol. 1, and give us the best of the Bowery Boys!

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Steve...O · 07-24-2007, 06:37 PM

This is a tough call. I have always believed that waiting for better elements is the right thing to do. In my opinion, a release should be done right the first time At the same time, I don't think an entire series should be held up because of the occasional problematic print.

To me, it makes sense to release a "series" in chronological order. One can follow character development and progression and watch the Bowery Boys turn into the Bowery Middle Aged Men over the course of 48 films. I have great respect for Mr. Garvey's point of view, but I can't compare one off films like noirs or films with the same co-stars playing different roles to a series with a recurring set of characters.

My preference and recommendation would be to stick with chronological releases but if a title is problematic, defer its release until a better source can be found. So, for example, if Mr. Hex goes from Vol 1 to Vol 4 or Vol 5 that would be fine. If WHV feels there is no hope to find a better print, include it anyway, warts and all, with a disclaimer that better elements simply do not exist.

To me this modified approach is better than buying a "Best Of" and then double dipping later. Truth be told though, I will support whatever WHV decides to do. The worst thing that can happen is a "Best Of" doesn't sell because of consumers waiting for the chronological releases.

A big thank you to WHV for once again showing a lot of class by reaching out to their consumers and getting input! Thanks also to Ron for providing this opportunity to respond.

EDIT: I love Ron's idea below about spine numbers. That is a great suggestion and will keep the "Mr. Monk" in all of us happy. This may not work perfectly if WHV uses double or triple features, but will be close enough.

Steve

Ronald Epstein · 07-24-2007, 07:22 PM

The folks at Warner do have a lot of class. No other studio would
take the time to discuss this matter with me and then offer our
membership the opportunity to weigh in their opinion -- one that
could very well gauge whether these DVDs make it to market sooner
than later.

My thoughts are this....

To have one problematic transfer hold up an entire series of
films for this long is something I am having problems coping with.

Steve makes a great point. Get these films out as soon as
possible. If you go the chronological route, simply skip
Mr. Hex and release it later.

Another point I'd like to bring up....

Obviously the earlier films are not as polished as the later ones.
In order to interest audiences not familiar with the work of The
Bowery Boys, why not mix up these releases a little bit by
releasing Best Of collections with offerings from different
years mixed together.

If you want to do something really special to preserve the
chronological aspect, put a # at the bottom of each spine indicating
where that film falls in the entire series according to year of release.
This way, you can ship these DVD titles out of order, but once all
released, the collector can rearrange the titles on their shelves
by the number indicated on the spine.

Let's get these films out, shall we?

Bob Furmanek · 07-24-2007, 09:25 PM

I would also STRONGLY suggest that Warners reach out to the collecting community. If there are no decent 16mm elements (and the 35's are MIA) I know that private collectors have decent 16mm prints which may be better than material the studio has in the library.

Case in point: the STOLEN COSTUME episode of Superman from the first season. WB used a worn out, cued up 16mm syndication print for the DVD, and there are mint prints out there among private collectors.

**HTF Ads**

Michael Elliott · 07-24-2007, 10:47 PM

These films and Warner has been discussed at another message board and one poster asked how long Warner was willing to wait since the die-hard fans of this series are getting older and (in his words) "dying off". It seems like the longer they wait that sales might go down.

Fox jumped around on their Chan releases and included two of the first two films (BEHIND THE CURTAIN & THE BLACK CAMEL) on Vol. 4. As Laurence said, no studio goes 100% in order. It would be nice to start with Bogart's small, supporting roles of the 1930's and see him progress as an actor up to his "Golden Age" but that's not how things work. Each box set jumps around by including great films and some less than classic works from different periods. It would be easy to release all of the Val Lewton titles in one set but we're talking about 48 films here.

I also see where Steve is coming from by seeing the boys "grow older" but as Ron pointed out, one film shouldn't prevent 47 from being released. Warner is the best studio out there for a reason but at the same time I think it's important for all studios to know that fans want certain films and most will take a 16mm transfer over nothing at all.

I seriously doubt those on quality control are going to be holding their fingers for The Bowery Boys to be released. I doubt the HD crowd are going to be buying these to show off their theaters. These films have a strong group of fans and I'm sure these fans want to own official copies no matter if one or two don't look as great as another title. Anyone with a limited amount of knowledge knows that not every film can look brand new so if someone does complain about one transfer being off then that problem is with that person and doesn't (or shouldn't) reflect on the studio in question.

I'm not trying to start a heated debate but there's a big difference between a quality junkie and a film buff/junkie. I'm only 27 and I buy every classic release out there and there are thousands of other films I want to see Warner release and I hope they wouldn't release a Chaney title just because the quality wasn't great. I'd much rather have a 16mm print over nothing at all. Fans will do what they have to to see a film they want so I'd rather give my money to Warner for their 16mm print instead of giving it to "someone else" for their 16mm print copy recorded off TV.

And as Bob said, the private collectors for this type of thing (or even horror movies) are pretty strong so I'm sure they could find someone with a decent print. Case in point, there's one collector who has several prints of rare Lon Chaney silents but no one seems interested. He has the only prints in the world and I for one would love to see Warner reach out to him and include these on an upcoming release.

Back to the films in question....

I'm not a die-hard BB fan but as a film buff I want to watch everyone of them so I'd certainly support their release (especially THE BOWERY BOYS MEET THE MONSTERS (1954), which I've been dying to see for years now).

Edit to add: I'd also prefer double features for these releases no matter how they come out. Double feature single releases or perhaps a box set of five discs with two movies on each? Perhaps leave the troubled transfers for the last box?

Jack Theakston · 07-24-2007, 10:55 PM

I have to agree with Bob here. There are decent prints in private and archival collections, which WB can access if they want to do the fans right.

I can tell you exactly where there are several prints of MISTER HEX, but of course, WB can always hire me to do these things. Time is money, you know

Joe Karlosi · 07-25-2007, 05:04 AM

First, I really think it's a terrific thing that Warner is asking the fans for their input about this.

In a perect world, sure it would be great to have all The Bowery Boys films released in strict chronoogical order. But this can't always be accomplished, and from what I understand we're talking about only 1 film out of a whopping 48 that is "unacceptable"? I would agree with others that a starter set called "Best of the Bowery Boys" would suit me fine, though my concern with a title as limiting as that would be that we may not get ALL the films..... I would just hope that, whether the first release is called "Best Of" or simply "Volume One", we eventually would be able to own them all. And then, who really can say what the "best" films are? I think THE BOWERY BOYS MEET THE MONSTERS (1954) is one of the finest, and I'm pretty sure this one made the most money of all their films when originally released, and it's a big fan favorite. BLUES BUSTERS is also very good, as is MASTER MINDS... but I'm getting ahead of myself...

While it would be nice to see the "boys" grow older and see the changes in the cast and so forth, with these films they are all stand-alone movies, and there is no continuing storyline or anything which would require viewers to see them in strict order. It's not really a necessity. As has been suggested earlier, perhaps WB can start releasing them chronologically and then just skip MR. HEX. Or better yet, let the fans help you out with better prints, as has been suggested. I have just about all of these on VHS, taken from TV airings, and the quality is certainly acceptable on them. In fact, I also have MR. HEX, and it too looks fine, from memory. So there are prints out there. In some cases, perhaps Warner may indicate on the packaging that "every effort has been made to obtain the best elements possible for each film, though quality may vary".

I would want to see these released as soon as possible, even if it means skipping titles here and there while waiting for better elements. I am one of those fans who feels that the core audience for these films are mainly people who grew up with them on TV and the theater, now in their 40s and beyond. These people will likely be your key buyers who really know the Bowery Boys and aren't getting any younger.

Of course, there will be younger movie buffs out there, like Michael Elliott, who will try these films out as well.

Lastly, while Warner is second to none when it comes to releasing vintage older movies, and their quality is almost always impeccable, there have been times where some individual films or titles in any given set are not as pristine as others. I don't see why the Bowery Boys should be any exception to that. And while I like this series a lot, these particular movies are not exactly high art or cinematic "masterpieces". Thanks for the opportunity for the direct feedback, and I'll be eagerly anticipating VOLUME ONE (of many which will include all the films, I hope!) ASAP. My money is waiting.

Quote:

Obviously the earlier films are not as polished as the later ones.
In order to interest audiences not familiar with the work of The
Bowery Boys, why not mix up these releases a little bit by
releasing Best Of collections with offerings from different
years mixed together.

If you want to do something really special to preserve the
chronological aspect, put a # at the bottom of each spine indicating
where that film falls in the entire series according to year of release.
This way, you can ship these DVD titles out of order, but once all
released, the collector can rearrange the titles on their shelves
by the number indicated on the spine.

Agreed. A very good idea!