Need help on figuring out what is wrong with certain DVDs

Jay E · 03-19-2007, 09:00 AM

Hi

I just recently bought a new HDTV 1080 TV and a new Oppo DVD player that upconverts to 1080 and I notice certain problems with my DVDs now. I am a complete novice when it comes to these things so please excuse my ignorance.

1 - I just tried to watch my 1943 Munchausen DVD from KINO and after 20 minutes gave up due to the image problems. Whenever someone moves, or the camera moves, it is not smooth - it appears that the image is being trailed as they or the camera moves (is this was they call ghosting?). I've read reviews of the KINO DVD and none of them state any problems with the transfer, in fact the reviews were glowing. Very frustrating.

2- In other DVDs I will find have objects moving around in the background, such as walls, lamps, trees, mountains etc...which is very annoying. This happens quite frequently. I just watched my Breaking Away DVD and objects in the picture kept moving around so much it felt like I was watching the film while on LSD.

If someone can explain what these problems are I would appreciate it. Is there a way to fix these problems? Is there a way of adjusting my DVD player or my TV so that they can play these DVDs without these problems (I never noticed these problems when watching on my old picture tube TV).

Many thanks for any help.

TomDaniel · 03-19-2007, 09:32 AM

Hi-

Yeah, HDTVs are great, but they tend to amplify the problems of less than stellar DVDs, problems you may have never noticed until you got that nice new TV set.

I don't have either DVD, but I can answer the first question, based on much experience with Kino, Image Entertainment, New Yorker (usually), Facets, and others of their ilk. They regularly use PAL masters for the NTSC DVD, when the film is of European origin (and sometimes when it isn't). These play with double images/blends/ghosting which makes the DVDs virtually unwatchable on a decent sized TV set. It's not the fault of either the TV or your Oppo. Nothing can be done (except to, maybe, buy the PAL version of Munchhausen).

I see shaky backgrounds sometimes also, but better people than I will have to explain the reasons.

Mark Zimmer · 03-19-2007, 09:49 AM

Yes, PAL conversion issues are your problems with Munchausen. It crops up with frequency in places where it shouldn't---such as Warner's set of the Chaplin films. If teeny-tiny houses like Synapse and Mondo Macabro can do a proper NTSC/PAL conversion for a minor cult film, not to mention cheap Chinese players being able to do it on the fly, I fail to see why the major studios can't manage this task.

I'm not counting Kino and Milestone (another frequent offender) in that group by the way; I know they don't have the budgets of Warner so I'm willing to cut them some slack, especially when they don't have access to a proper master. I believe that some of the time on their licensed pictures they get a master that has already been converted and there's not a lot they can do about it. Other titles that show this problem are Milestone's otherwise superb PHANTOM OF THE OPERA set and Kino's METROPOLIS. I opted for the UK METROPOLIS myself to limit the ghosting issues.

Tory · 03-19-2007, 12:03 PM

Hey does this sort of problem allow one to see through people? Either my x-ray vision has come back or there is something wrong with the DVD, yes?

Richard Gallagher · 03-19-2007, 12:20 PM

In addition to what the others have said, you might want to try setting your Oppo to show Munchausen in 480i or 480p rather than upconverting it. When I looked at it on my upconverting DVD player, it seemed to me that in both 720p and 1080i the upconversion actually made the ghosting worse.

It doesn't appear that there is a PAL version of Munchausen available. I checked at amazon.co.uk and Movie Mail, and neither of them show a PAL version for sale.

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Jonathan-S · 03-19-2007, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Gallagher

It doesn't appear that there is a PAL version of Munchausen available. I checked at amazon.co.uk and Movie Mail, and neither of them show a PAL version for sale.

I already have the R2 Eureka version - and I just found it on both these sites but you need to search on MUNCHHAUSEN (2 'h's). The Amazon listing claims it's directed by Georges Melies (!) but it is the 1943 German film. I assume it's PAL (being a UK release) though it doesn't actually say which system on the case.

Jonathan-S · 03-19-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay E

2- In other DVDs I will find have objects moving around in the background, such as walls, lamps, trees, mountains etc...which is very annoying. This happens quite frequently. I just watched my Breaking Away DVD and objects in the picture kept moving around so much it felt like I was watching the film while on LSD.

If this is the same problem I occasionally see, I suspect it results from excessive attempts at image stabilization during the digital transfer, which keeps an unsteady print stable at the expense of having outlines within it move around. I call it a "jigsaw effect". Perhaps someone with more technical knowledge can explain it better.

I noticed it on some of the first DVDs I bought - such as the very early Eureka DVD releases of silents here in the UK - and it annoyed me so much I almost gave up on DVD and reverted to VHS! I must admit I've rarely encountered it since and the more recent DVDs I've had from Eureka, such as the Masters of Cinema series, do not suffer from it.

Jay E · 03-19-2007, 01:26 PM

Thanks for the information provided so far. maybe I will switch my DVD to 480 and see if that helps.

Some other DVDs where I see objects moving about are Stalker, the Russian War & Peace & Querelle, but there are quite a few others as well. I was wondering if this has anything to do with edge enhancement?

Richard Gallagher · 03-20-2007, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan-S

I already have the R2 Eureka version - and I just found it on both these sites but you need to search on MUNCHHAUSEN (2 'h's). The Amazon listing claims it's directed by Georges Melies (!) but it is the 1943 German film. I assume it's PAL (being a UK release) though it doesn't actually say which system on the case.

That explains why I couldn't find it! Thanks.

It is indeed the PAL version.