A few words about... Kingdom of Heaven - The Director's Cut - Page 5

Max Leung · 07-25-2006, 07:11 PM

I am amazed that some people (including critics) still do not understand the central message(s) of this movie.

Perhaps these people do not like this movie at a gut level. They cannot explain why in a lucid manner, so they purposely misunderstand plot elements, selectively forget important dialog and scenes that spell the central theme clearly, and just plain get the facts wrong.

It boggles my mind.

JediFonger · 07-26-2006, 08:23 AM

that's precisely why i posted the quote. you have your own morals and i have mine, that's relativism through and through. you can use Platonic, Aristotlean and Socratic logic to come up with something that is more right and more wrong. But once you throw those baselines out the window, discussions become irrational. thus ends my contribution on this. that's why we shouldn't get into these discussions to violate TOS in the 1st place. it never ends properly. you can spat on from here, but you won't be met with any answers rational or irrational from me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Reynolds

I think you're measuring the film by your own moral yardstick and because you disagree with an action of a character, you cannot enjoy the film. Is it not possible to enjoy a film in which the protagonist makes errors? In which his judgement is not always perfect?

Aaron Reynolds · 07-26-2006, 08:49 AM

YiFeng -- I don't think the discussion has become contentious in any way. I'm trying to feel out your thoughts on this and you keep dodging the main question -- can you not enjoy a film in which a character does a morally dubious thing?

No one is trying to use any kind of logic to determine more right and more wrong as far as I can see, and I don't think anyone wants to -- what would be the point? We already know you didn't like the film and it won't change your evaluation of it.

Myself, I'm just curious about what kind of films you can like if they can only have central characters who are pure and good in every way. That's not a taunt or an attempt to be offensive -- I really do not understand at all where you're coming from.

You seem to have enjoyed Lawrence of Arabia, and I'll admit it's been close to a decade since the last time I saw it, but isn't he also flawed?

JediFonger · 07-26-2006, 09:04 AM

i love a good film that explores flawed characters. take fight club. my fav. movie of the 90's. that answers your question.

but i don't think KOH is about that. KOH calls upon Balian to be a tour guide through the Crusades. and every turn any character has to present the issues are turned down/watered down to avoid controversy.

Max Leung · 07-26-2006, 01:01 PM

You did seem to enjoy V for Vendetta as well! So, I can accept you like movies with flawed characters.

I'm not sure how you can think of Balian beiing a tour guide for the Crusades though. But at least it makes more sense than your moral relativism comments that seem very out of place when taken in the context of the movie.

Maybe the movie had too much talking, not enough "action"?

JediFonger · 07-26-2006, 01:48 PM

in the documentaries, disc3 i think, scott free production's exec. made a point about balian as a character that takes us through the crusades.

it isn't about talking vs. action. it's more about the feeling after you watched a great film. remember the 1st time you watched your fav. film? you just feel so exhilarated (sp?) and excited that you want to see it again. for me it was Lawrence of Arabia. the first time really stomped all of my senses because of the large size of the epic story, the 2nd time i noticed the personal elements and every time after that i found more and more things to really enjoy... EVEN THE INTERMISSIONS =). and after watching LOA everytime you just feel really good. i don't think any films in the past year has given me that unless i pick up a classic.

CraigF · 07-27-2006, 01:38 AM

Man, I hope you didn't read anything I said, and that it didn't influence you in your purchase (yeah, like!). I was just talking about the DVD, not the story.

FWIW, I like this a lot better than LOA. LOA is virtually a modern myth if you investigate what really happened as far as is recorded, more like a Hollywood "inspired by" movie, which means made up to be a good story for a movie to make $$$. At least KoH happened long enough ago that the facts are not so well-recorded, so the "could be, good story" factor is a little less obnoxious, to me at least.

I think this movie will be much more highly regarded in a time when its content is a little less bothersome (and relevant) to some people. Ah, movies that try to show some truth and go beyond childish stereotypes/fantasy and present some important ideas get squashed, and superhero movies rake it in. If you thought about it for just a second too long it would tell you a lot about the society you live in.

willh51 · 07-27-2006, 04:46 PM

Ridley Scott seems to do a damn good job with extended cuts. I really enjoyed the theatrical and I think I'm going to watch my D.C. dvd tonight. Here's hoping I'll love that as well.

JediFonger · 07-28-2006, 11:42 AM

gladiator's DC is really good. it doesn't really impact it positively or negatively, if anything it gives gladiator more texture. but KOH's DC gives it much more than that. it's almost like a different movie =). and as we'll get to experience next year Bladerunner will also rock =).