Need Movie Recommendations For Very Religious Person - Page 4

Louis C · 09-02-2003, 08:40 PM

...back to Toy Story...the only overt reference to religion I recall hearing is the crane scene where Woody calls them zealots for 'believing' in the crane. I wouldn't say this makes it a pro-athiest film. It does hold up to criticism blind faith as an earlier post points out.

(By the way if you think Pixar flicks are directed just at kids you may want to pay more attention to the dialogue.)

I think Toy Story is a parable about the Golden Rule. Woody doesn't treat Buzz as he wants to be treated, and look what happens. Sid doesn't treat his toys with respect, and look what the toys do to teach him a lesson.

Woody is wrongly judged for telling the truth and when then Rex finds out he was wrong says "Now I have guilt!"

Though I would hardly call this a overtly religious film, it definitely has some moral if not religious overtones.

If the central point of atheism is that existence is disorder or that there is no greater reason for our living, then I am at a loss as to how that point is demonstrated in Toy Story.

Jeff Kleist · 09-02-2003, 09:35 PM

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If the central point of atheism is that existence is disorder or that there is no greater reason for our living

No it's not. Atheism is lack of belief in a supreme being, simple and clear cut. What you're giving there is the dramatisized propogandistic version which is often followed by not-so-polite digs at atheist's moral underpinnings.

Bill Burns · 09-03-2003, 12:01 AM

Jeff has written quite a bit

:

post #20:

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(Re: Kundun and "the search for and coming of age of a new Dalai Lama") Which many hardcore Christians consider to be a pagan leader.

post #53:

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Talking toys and animals are abominations in the eye of some sects. But don't dismiss Toy Story just because it's not overt in its message.

Toy Story warns of the dangers of blind faith, and shows that making the world a better place requires someone to take action. There's also the aliens in the Claw machine, who believe they are getting raptured(for lack of a better term) every time one of them gets nabbed. The entire movie is an atheist parable.

"Dangers of blind faith?" Cough.

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Post #58 in its entirety

... followed by ...

post #59

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Please those who believe don't take offense to it, I realize that 98% of you aren't the frothing loons to which the description refers

"Frothing loons?" Ahem. Cough.

post #90:

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Some sects would claim ET was bad because it featured aliens, and that humanity is the only life in the universe and God's favored children. Spirited Away features "pagan" belief systems, so would be equally unacceptible.

Jeff, I dunno ... I think this is all very off track for the thread. But when Louis said:

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If the central point of atheism is that existence is disorder or that there is no greater reason for our living, then I am at a loss as to how that point is demonstrated in Toy Story.

You responded:

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Atheism is lack of belief in a supreme being, simple and clear cut. What you're giving there is the dramatisized propogandistic version which is often followed by not-so-polite digs at atheist's moral underpinnings.

Not-so-polite digs go both ways. You seem to be saying (and if this wasn't your intent, I respect that and please just consider this how I, a level headed and devout man of faith, read the above quotes): "keep it quiet, keep it to yourself, and sure, I acknowledge your right to believe, but hey, I'm gonna espouse what I see as the 'common sense' of atheism whenever I see fit, and if you question atheism when I do, watch out." Also, so far as I can see, you're the only one talking about sects, Jeff ("certain sects this, certain sects that"). Everyone else mentioning religion at all seems to be discussing matters of mainstream religious interpretation (I believe there was one post about naked aliens, but otherwise ...).

I'd suggest we avoid characterizing religion, either mainstream or otherwise, and lack of religion around these parts, or otherwise engaging in the debate about religious beliefs that has been explored, and continues to be explored, by billions of people the world over, a debate in which humanity has taken part since the very beginning of recorded history:

Ron Epstein (in his forum rules):

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3. No discussions concerning politics or religion. These type of discussions don't belong here. This prohibition extends to any aspect of the current international situation in the Middle East; this is not the forum for any such discussion.

This thread, as begun by James, is about inoffensive film recommendations, i.e. pictures someone sensitive to harsh content might watch without concern. He explained that violence was not a factor. Along those guidelines, some here have tried to offer sincere recommendations, and others seem to be needling James with sarcastic film lists. I'd suggest we try to remain constructive to the thread topic and in any analysis of the films we recommend (including Toy Story), which should really mean a concerted effort to avoid describing and especially characterizing religions and religious practices, or of course in any way attacking them. Avoiding debates about religion altogether is, again, something Ron has mandated.

That's just my input on the matter -- I expect you may wish to clarify the above, Jeff, or perhaps refute my interpretation of your comments, and that's fine, but I'm not trying to get into a debate about it. These things are powder kegs, and Ron and Parker wisely understand that in such matters it's best to confiscate all flints.

I've enjoyed the liveliness of the thread, and I don't want to see it closed (or become divisive) if we can avoid it. As James says, future references to the thread might yield fine suggestions for his Netflix account, and along those lines I'm happy to once again encourage a rental of The Winslow Boy, a completely inoffensive, live action G-rated film that also happens to have, as its director, one of the finest filmmakers out there: David Mamet. I'd also second the suggestion that one reference Screen It! before taking our word on what is and what is not offensive -- best to judge for oneself, and that website allows such judgments without having to watch the film in question first. There are also, of course, a number of fine religious websites that review motion pictures from a perspective of faith. One to which I often refer as a Catholic, but with which I do not always agree (such is usually the way of it with film criticism, after all), can be found here: http://www.usccb.org/movies/index.htm; I believe the reviews are written by laymen on that site on behalf of the USCCB (I'm not certain of this, though), and there are many more such sites from a multitude of denominations and perspectives.

andrew markworthy · 09-03-2003, 02:24 AM

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the climate and attitudes in the US when one says "very religious person" tend to be several degrees closer ot the extreme than in the UK. Some sects would claim ET was bad because it featured aliens, and that humanity is the only life in the universe and God's favored children. Spirited Away features "pagan" belief systems, so would be equally unacceptible.

[Please note that what follows is a cultural comment - I'm not being evaluative of religious beliefs]. Jeff, we *do* have people with that sort of belief and value system in the UK. They generally belong to what are often called 'happy clappy' churches (lots of emphasis on upbeat religious songs that you clap along to, holding your hands in the air whilst singing, accompanied by literal interpretations of Biblical writing, etc). [If you want an example, watch 'Oranges are not the only fruit' (warning - scenes of lesbianism throughout)]. There are fewer in the 'traditional' churches but they do exist, and it's safe to say it's a source of tension for a lot of churchgoers.

However, overall, it's safe to say that Brit churchgoers are a little more relaxed on such matters.

Mark Bendiksen · 09-06-2003, 10:55 PM

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Or maybe it's just about toys.

LOL...I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Is Toy Story just about toys? No. I think there are much deeper themes that the folks at Pixar address with all of their films, especially TS1 and TS2. Do I think that Toy Story is really about atheism? No. That's an amusing theory, but c'mon! I think John Lasseter would laugh in the face of anyone who proposed that idea.

Just my $.02...

Jeff Kleist · 09-06-2003, 10:59 PM

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Do I think that Toy Story is really about atheism?

That wasn't the point. The point was that it is an atheist parable, not a direct atheist film

Dan Rudolph · 09-07-2003, 03:23 AM

Wouldn't being an atheist parable make it about atheism? Few people would try to argue The Crucible isn't about McCarythism.

AllanN · 09-07-2003, 11:37 AM

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Spirited Away features "pagan" belief systems, so would be equally unacceptible.

My bad, I never really picked up on that, I just though it was a heartwarming and encouraging story.

Jeff Kleist · 09-07-2003, 01:40 PM

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Wouldn't being an atheist parable make it about atheism? Few people would try to argue The Crucible isn't about McCarythism.

No, it means that the same tenets and ideas to be applied to atheism, but the direct intent of the film is not to further a particular school of thought, though that may be the end result.

andrew markworthy · 09-07-2003, 03:22 PM

Reading through some of the arguments that have been made against 'blasphemous' movies, I'm reminded of a Brecht/Weill song:

You men who think you have a mission
To purge us of the seven deadly sins
Should first sort out the basic food position
Then you can start your preaching
Because that's where it begins.