Can't Criterion do better?

DarrylWHarrisJr · 07-20-2003, 10:59 PM

In reference to the few Kurosawa films that I have and love... I just picke up Akira's Rashomon (these things are expensive, but I'll get to that in a second) and this thing looks worse than Seven Samaurai or The Hidden Fortress. I know it's a 50's film, but I've seen what others have done to their back catalog (see North By Northwest) and I must say that Criterion to be just that, they have got to do better than this for the $35 they are charging me at retail (yes, I know I can get it on-line cheaper). And don't get me starting the the jitter of the picutre (on the close ups during the confessions). I'm dying to pick up Throne of Blood but I'm hesitant to shell out the bucks for a sub par picture quality. Is this the best we are ever going to get? Some one call Robert Harris! Sidebar: Whoever does the covers for these things is freaking awesome. Makes me not want to open the package for the fear of damaging it.

Richard Kim · 07-20-2003, 11:12 PM

First of all, Rashomon looks WAY better than Seven Samurai (Criterion's supposed to release a newer DVD based on a better print).

Second, consider that Criterion probably could not obtain a properly restored print of Rashomon from the Japanese distributor and did the best they could with it.

DarrylWHarrisJr · 07-20-2003, 11:15 PM

Yes I understand that, but shouldn't they have tried to remove as much dust and scratches as possible...? This one had a lot of them..

Jeff Kleist · 07-20-2003, 11:27 PM

I'm sure they did. Unfortunately budgets for such things are not unlimited, and is very expensive.

Brian PB · 07-21-2003, 12:08 AM

I am perplexed by your comments on Criterion's Rashomon: this is a fine transfer using elements superior to those that Toho had provided for Seven Samurai. Is it pristine? No. The elements show signs of their age (50+ years), but according to Donald Richie's definitive The Films of Akira Kurosawa, the original negative no longer exists (though a dupe negative does). I've watched this DVD three times (including last weekend), and I think as a package it's worth every penny.

If you don't believe me, here are a number of online reviews that highly praise Criterion's efforts:

Digital Bits
DVD Talk (DVD Savant)
DVD Angle
DVD Movie Central

Perhaps your expectations are too high--no studio or distributor (Criterion included)is able to work miracles with compromised or deteriorated elements. Criterion searches for the best available elements and attempts a transfer which respects the original look and sound of the film. Iin the case of Rashomon, I think they've done a fine job.

**HTF Ads**

Patrick McCart · 07-21-2003, 01:03 AM

Well, they could have pulled an Artisan and DVNR the heck out of it.

North By Northwest is really an impressive DVD (even after 3 years), but you really need to be less sensitive to film defects. Some criticized Warner's The Thin Man when it came out for having too much film damage. To be perfectly honest, the photographic quality of their transfer is beautiful.

I'm not sure exactly what is the exact film damage for this title (I have yet to see it), but if it has great photographic quality...enjoy it. A wonderful print with some specks and lines is a lot better than a pristine 3rd generation dupe print.

Adam_S · 07-21-2003, 02:31 AM

Also consider that when you see restoration demos like on Grand Illusion, they're showing you the repairs they were able to work after finding a dupe/original (I can't remember which now) negative v. the print source they had available before for their laser for instance. Criterion had access only to theatrical prints of Rashoman, Toho lets noone touch their negatives, and until recently didn't provide the US with the best elements. I've not watched the DVD yet, but I can attest that a theatrical print I saw was in quite bad shape, but still magnificent to view. DVD, to me, means the oppurtunity to see films in full standard NTSC resolution films on home video, it doesn't mean perfect images every moment. A perfect DVD of a film still doesn't come close to watching that same film in the theater, even if it has some print damage/wear.

Adam

Jon Robertson · 07-21-2003, 04:13 AM

Adam - I'm not sure that's correct anymore. All of Criterion's Toho transfers after the whole Yojimbo/Sanjuro debacle have been taken from much higher-quality elements. Rashomon, according to the liner notes, was taken from a 35mm fine-grain master positive, which is much too high-a-quality to actually project. It also wasn't licensed from Toho, but Dalei, whoever they might be.

The elements for Rashomon are in very poor shape indeed, but one can't hold Criterion responsible. Criterion have said in the past (when that big fuss got kicked off over their Eisenstein boxset) that they only take digital image restoration as far as they can before it starts to alter the actual look of the film (ie. the removal of film grain).

In an ideal world, all transfers would be done like this.

And, fear not, Throne of Blood is in much better shape. Pick it up without delay!

Damin J Toell · 07-21-2003, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Some one call Robert Harris!

Not to speak for Mr. Harris, but something tells me that his restoration work decidely resembles Criterion's Rashomon transfer much more than it does the digital thing that is the North by Northwest DVD. Jon Robertson's words above about transfers looking like film are key as to this point.

DJ

rich_d · 07-21-2003, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Not to speak for Mr. Harris, but something tells me that his restoration work decidely resembles Criterion's Rashomon transfer much more than it does the digital thing that is the North by Northwest DVD. Jon Robertson's words above about transfers looking like film are key as to this point.

Damin/All:

Jon's point about film grain (and the loss thereof) is a good point and one that I believe many embrace.

But let's spend a moment on "the digital thing that is the North by Northwest DVD."

Last I checked all DVDs are digital. Who knows, maybe at some point someone will use a film grain enhancer module on North By Northwest and it will look more "film-like" and better than any other Hitch DVD around.

What would you say then?

Kyle Tippett · 07-21-2003, 10:11 AM

In regards to the "jittering" picture during the confession scenes: DVDs are tranfers of film, most commonly starting as 35mm stock (excluding such as BARAKA and DERSU UZALA). If the absolute best print that Home Vision was able to obtain is in fairly faded and scratched condition, they often do the absolute best they can, (keep in mind, this is usualy kust a guy like you or i on a computer, depening on his day, the restoration for some scenes may be sh*t). anyway, lets say the print is able to be restored to look fairly decent, on a frame by frame basis... there is another issue that then comes up. if this film has made the circuit for 58, or even 20 years... think of how many projectionists that goes through.... wouldnt you like a frame of toshiro mifune from an original mid 50's printo of rashomon? i would.. so there goes one frame... and another... eventually the film will look like the diner scene in Breathless, filled with jump cuts, or "jittering"
i really beleive that criterion/HVE does the best they can with what they have. i just bought Kino's Dersu, cause it was shot on 70mm, and i just for a new 46" tv, when i put it in, it didnt look too hot either... but its 30+ years old, what should i expect? its simply not possible for us now to Completely remove all wear and tear (or cut) from 30-50-80 year old films... for example, you put in Dryer's Passion and you arent disappointed, or Kino's Faust... there from when? 1918-27? i thought that passion looks great, the contrast is excelent, and there isnt too much missing, allthough there is some gone. anyway, film restoration is done by people on computers, not computers alone, and it does leave the clean room, so ther will always be dust... even on Eraserhead (allthough very little)