Do I Have All This Hooked Up Correctly?

Panevino · 07-07-2008, 08:18 PM

Hello, Forum!

New to the board and wanted to post my first thread...if anyone could help with the following queries, I would appreciate it...

I have a Panasonic DMP-BD10A Blu-ray player running HDMI OUT (for audio and video transfer) via a Monster HDMI 1.3 capable cable to an Onkyo TX-SR605's HDMI IN (1)...from there, a second HDMI cable (gold-tipped, heavy gauge, supplied by my installer, not sure of the brand) is running from the receiver's HDMI OUT to a Sony KDS-50A2020 SXRD HDTV's HDMI IN (Video 6)...that's it...no other connections between the player, receiver and display, except for, of course, the speaker cable feeding my Polk 5.1 array from the Onkyo...

First of all, do I have this all connected correctly in order to pass high definition video (1080p) from Blu-rays and upconverted DVD video at 1080p (from the Panasonic player) PLUS pass all the high resolution audio codecs on Blu-rays AND legacy codecs on DVDs? Here are some concerns and some background:

This Panasonic player does not support bitstreaming of the new surround codecs -- onboard are decoders for Dolby Digital Plus (not relevant to any BD titles I have or know of), Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD-HR...NOT DTS-HD Master Audio...now, because the player can't output the bitstream signals of these codecs, in the player's Digital Audio Output menu, I have selected "PCM" for Dolby Digital Plus/TrueHD and "Bitstream" for DTS-HD -- the reason being TrueHD tracks can be decoded internally by the player and sent out over HDMI as multichannel PCM to the Onkyo, where the receiver reads "MULTICH" on the display...and the logic behind leaving "DTS-HD" on "Bitstream" from this player is that MASTER AUDIO tracks on Blu ray titles are recognized and handled by this machine through the "DTS-HD" audio setting...leaving this to "Bitstream" allows the 10A to take the "Core" DTS mix from a Master Audio track and send THAT bitstream to my Onkyo, where the receiver decodes it as standard DTS...so that's why I leave those settings like that...

Does this sound like I have this all set up correctly? I have left the Onkyo's "HDMI MONITOR" selection in the Setup menu to YES, as I think that is what allows the receiver to pass the video straight through to the display...do I have this right? The "Immediate Display" selection, under "Miscelaneous" in the Setup menu, which I was told softens the image on video pass through, has been left OFF...is there anything else that I SHOULD be setting on the 605 so it passes the HDMI video straight through? All HDMI assignments have been made properly (actually, all I'm using is HDMI 1 input), but does how I described my setup sound like it's prepared correctly to pass the 1080p video over HDMI from the Panasonic player straight through the receiver and out to the display with no signal clipping or degredation?

Thanks in advance, once again, to anyone that could shed some insight here...

David Willow · 07-07-2008, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panevino

Hello, Forum!

New to the board and wanted to post my first thread...if anyone could help with the following queries, I would appreciate it...

I have a Panasonic DMP-BD10A Blu-ray player running HDMI OUT (for audio and video transfer) via a Monster HDMI 1.3 capable cable to an Onkyo TX-SR605's HDMI IN (1)...from there, a second HDMI cable (gold-tipped, heavy gauge, supplied by my installer, not sure of the brand) is running from the receiver's HDMI OUT to a Sony KDS-50A2020 SXRD HDTV's HDMI IN (Video 6)...that's it...no other connections between the player, receiver and display, except for, of course, the speaker cable feeding my Polk 5.1 array from the Onkyo...

First of all, do I have this all connected correctly in order to pass high definition video (1080p) from Blu-rays and upconverted DVD video at 1080p (from the Panasonic player) PLUS pass all the high resolution audio codecs on Blu-rays AND legacy codecs on DVDs? Here are some concerns and some background:

This Panasonic player does not support bitstreaming of the new surround codecs -- onboard are decoders for Dolby Digital Plus (not relevant to any BD titles I have or know of), Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD-HR...NOT DTS-HD Master Audio...now, because the player can't output the bitstream signals of these codecs, in the player's Digital Audio Output menu, I have selected "PCM" for Dolby Digital Plus/TrueHD and "Bitstream" for DTS-HD -- the reason being TrueHD tracks can be decoded internally by the player and sent out over HDMI as multichannel PCM to the Onkyo, where the receiver reads "MULTICH" on the display...and the logic behind leaving "DTS-HD" on "Bitstream" from this player is that MASTER AUDIO tracks on Blu ray titles are recognized and handled by this machine through the "DTS-HD" audio setting...leaving this to "Bitstream" allows the 10A to take the "Core" DTS mix from a Master Audio track and send THAT bitstream to my Onkyo, where the receiver decodes it as standard DTS...so that's why I leave those settings like that...

Does this sound like I have this all set up correctly? I have left the Onkyo's "HDMI MONITOR" selection in the Setup menu to YES, as I think that is what allows the receiver to pass the video straight through to the display...do I have this right? The "Immediate Display" selection, under "Miscelaneous" in the Setup menu, which I was told softens the image on video pass through, has been left OFF...is there anything else that I SHOULD be setting on the 605 so it passes the HDMI video straight through? All HDMI assignments have been made properly (actually, all I'm using is HDMI 1 input), but does how I described my setup sound like it's prepared correctly to pass the 1080p video over HDMI from the Panasonic player straight through the receiver and out to the display with no signal clipping or degredation?

Thanks in advance, once again, to anyone that could shed some insight here...

Everything looks good. You are correctly seeing MULTICH on the Onkyo. Only comment is you really don't need to overpay for the Monster Cable. The gold tipped no name is probably just as good.

The 605 passes the video to your TV unchanged when using HDMI.

Are you having a problem or just confirming that you are correct?

Panevino · 07-07-2008, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Willow

Everything looks good. You are correctly seeing MULTICH on the Onkyo. Only comment is you really don't need to overpay for the Monster Cable. The gold tipped no name is probably just as good.

The 605 passes the video to your TV unchanged when using HDMI.

Are you having a problem or just confirming that you are correct?

Hello, David!

Thank you for your prompt reply!

Looking at your home theater page via your link, it seems that you're using Monster Cable, too...

...just kiddin'...

But, with regard to that, does it matter what "kind" of HDMI cable is carrying the 1080p video and high resolution surround soundtracks? The cable doesn't HAVE to be 1.3a-ready or anything like that?

To answer your last question, yes, I would like to confirm that everything is right, but I'm also not that impressed with the way 1080p Blu rays look on my screen, and standard DVD upconversion is absolutely ATROCIOUS out of this Panasonic player -- the discs are riddled with jagged edges, macroblocking, ringing and more at 1080p...I am currently looking for a new BD player with better DVD upconversion.

But my Sony display confirms that "1080p" is the incoming HDMI resolution being passed from the player to the receiver to the display...I just wanted to be sure this setup is okay -- that is, HDMI OUT to HDMI IN to HDMI OUT to HDMI in -- and that this shouldn't be "degrading" the signal in any way as opposed to running the player direct to the display for video...

The problem is, there's only one HDMI A/V out from the player, so how else can I pass 1080p video AND the high resolution surround codecs without using one HDMI cable? I don't really wanna go multiple analog cables; that's not what I bought my Onkyo '605 for, with onboard TrueHD and Master Audio decoding...

David Willow · 07-08-2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panevino

Hello, David!

Thank you for your prompt reply!

Looking at your home theater page via your link, it seems that you're using Monster Cable, too...

...just kiddin'...

I also had Sony speakers in the mid 90's. We should all learn from our "mistakes"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panevino

But, with regard to that, does it matter what "kind" of HDMI cable is carrying the 1080p video and high resolution surround soundtracks? The cable doesn't HAVE to be 1.3a-ready or anything like that?

To carry the PCM signal from your BD10 to your Onkyo, any decent HDMI cable will do. Now, if you to get a new BD player that bitstreams to the Onkyo, then a 1.3a compliant cable is recommended. Monoprice and BlueJeans cables sell these online much cheaper than you can get in a store (and WAY cheaper than Mon$ter).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panevino

To answer your last question, yes, I would like to confirm that everything is right, but I'm also not that impressed with the way 1080p Blu rays look on my screen, and standard DVD upconversion is absolutely ATROCIOUS out of this Panasonic player -- the discs are riddled with jagged edges, macroblocking, ringing and more at 1080p...I am currently looking for a new BD player with better DVD upconversion.

I've heard good things about the BD10. I'm not sure what is happening here. I have the BD30 and I'm very impressed with it. DVD's look good on my 61" screen. Maybe check your picture settings on the BD10. The BD30 has a pop up menu that has additional picture settings that you can only access while playing a movie. The BD10 may be the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panevino

But my Sony display confirms that "1080p" is the incoming HDMI resolution being passed from the player to the receiver to the display...I just wanted to be sure this setup is okay -- that is, HDMI OUT to HDMI IN to HDMI OUT to HDMI in -- and that this shouldn't be "degrading" the signal in any way as opposed to running the player direct to the display for video...

The onkyo will pass the 1080P signal straight through.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panevino

The problem is, there's only one HDMI A/V out from the player, so how else can I pass 1080p video AND the high resolution surround codecs without using one HDMI cable? I don't really wanna go multiple analog cables; that's not what I bought my Onkyo '605 for, with onboard TrueHD and Master Audio decoding...

You have it hooked up correctly. It may just be a setting in your BD10 or your TV. Another way to confirm you are passing a 1080P signal, press and hold the display button on the Onkyo (not the remote).

I currently have the Panasonic BD30, the Onkyo 705, and a JVC 61" H-ILA TV and the BD picture is spectacular. The JVC uses the same technology as your Sony (LCoS). I LOVE this TV.

Maybe as a test, hook the BD10 directly to your TV using the, cough cough, Monster cable. If the picture improves, it may be the no name cable's fault.

pat00139 · 07-08-2008, 05:48 PM

Lots to talk about here...

The Panasonic players are notorious for having pretty bad upconversion capabilities. I haven't really read any reviews that really praise the upcinversion. The BD video quality is generally accepted as being very, very good.

As far as BD players go, none of them (save for the Sammy 1200, Sammy 5000 combo and Denon 3800) have particularly excellent upscalers, though most of them will probably do a better job upscaling than the Panny players. If you want a really good upconverting player, I recommend the Oppo players. I own the Oppo 983 and it does an outstanding job. Granted, it's got a pretty powerful video scaler and deinterlacer, but it's worth every penny.

There's absolutely no way of getting the high-def audio codecs without using HDMI (or analogues, which you don't want to use). The reason for HDMI is to simplify everything. Through digital coax and digital optical, you can only get 2-channel PCM. The setup you have is correct, however your television may need to be calibrated. That's the only thing I can say. Perhaps going in and changing the brightness and sharpness settings may help. Also, how long have you had your TV? Maybe your bulb is getting old.

What is it about the BD picture that disappoints you so much, by the way? Different movies have different cinematography, so, for example, Blood Diamond will look very, very grainy, but the Pirates of the Caribbean movies will look very crisp and clean.

HDMI cables would not generally be a problem. If they are a problem, it's very, very obvious. HDMI 1.3 certified cables are somewhat of a gimmick. The only difference between them and non-1.3 certified cables are that the certified ones have been tested to handle a certain bandwith. Truth be told, ALL HDMI cables on the market now can handle 1080p/60hz with 8-channel PCM, whatever the company. You can get a cheapo monoprice cable or a top-of-the-line Straight Wire cable and both will look the same, especially when using 6- or 8-feet cables. Only when you go over 30-35 feet do you want start looking at higher-end cables. As David said, checking out Monoprice and Blue Jeans Cable is a good idea. Blue Jeans have actually made an HDMI cable that can go up to 150 feet without loosing signal! Their site is very informative and explains basically everything you need to know about HDMI.

I have a Panny DMP30 going to an Onkyo 805, using an Epson 1080UB projector, and the blu-rays I watch look absolutely fabulous. I've calibrated the projector myself based on a few reviews of it I've read, so I'm pretty sure it looks good enough.

One last thing, what movie are you watching that disappoint you? Perhaps they've not transferred properly.

**HTF Ads**

Panevino · 07-09-2008, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Willow

I also had Sony speakers in the mid 90's. We should all learn from our "mistakes"

Didn't realize those cables were from the mid 90s...

Quote:

To carry the PCM signal from your BD10 to your Onkyo, any decent HDMI cable will do. Now, if you to get a new BD player that bitstreams to the Onkyo, then a 1.3a compliant cable is recommended. Monoprice and BlueJeans cables sell these online much cheaper than you can get in a store (and WAY cheaper than Mon$ter).

Okay, well let me explain and elaborate a bit on my original post...I BELIEVE a Monster 1.3 capable cable IS connecting my player to the receiver to send the new codecs AND the legacy type (Dolby, DTS, etc. from DVDs)...BUT let me explain a bit more:

I can't remember what cable it was because I picked it up at the store I purchased most of the system components from and was distracted by talking with my installer and salesperson who was at the cable display with me; I can't remember EXACTLY what kind of Monster HDMI cable it was -- but I'm pretty sure it was a 1.3-"ready" one.

Now, I know I'm not sending the new codecs via bitstream over this cable from my player as this Panasonic doesn't support Master Audio at all, and it doesn't send TrueHD over bitstream -- it internally decodes it as PCM. But still, given this, should the cable I have be "okay" for sending at least legacy Dolby and DTS track, as well as uncompressed PCM and decoded TrueHD PCM tracks?

Quote:

I've heard good things about the BD10. I'm not sure what is happening here. I have the BD30 and I'm very impressed with it. DVD's look good on my 61" screen. Maybe check your picture settings on the BD10. The BD30 has a pop up menu that has additional picture settings that you can only access while playing a movie. The BD10 may be the same.

Okay -- please see the post underneath your original post regarding Panasonic's upscaling "issues"; they are infamous for these problems because of the UniPher and other Sigma chips they're using...this player is just horrid for DVD upconversion to 1080p...as for the picture controls, I leave these on NORMAL when playing back DVDs and Blu rays because the other settings -- Soft, Fine, Cinema and User -- all seem to destroy the quality even more.

Quote:

The onkyo will pass the 1080P signal straight through.

Couldn't get a straight answer on this no matter where I asked; thank you...now you're SURE the TX-SR605 will do this?

Quote:

You have it hooked up correctly. It may just be a setting in your BD10 or your TV. Another way to confirm you are passing a 1080P signal, press and hold the display button on the Onkyo (not the remote).

Like I said, I'm leaving the BD10 on "Normal" picture which is what I was told it should be on for optimum transfer of what you're supposed to be seeing on the disc...my display has been calibrated.

Quote:

Maybe as a test, hook the BD10 directly to your TV using the, cough cough, Monster cable. If the picture improves, it may be the no name cable's fault.

Oh boy; I was suspecting it MAY be this...I hope not. Thanks for your help; looking forward to hearing back from you!

Panevino · 07-09-2008, 01:50 AM

Hey, Pat!

Thanks for the replies; let me address them individually so it's easier...

The Panasonic players are notorious for having pretty bad upconversion capabilities. I haven't really read any reviews that really praise the upcinversion. The BD video quality is generally accepted as being very, very good.

Thank you for confirming my worries that Panasonics are notorious for this level of upconversion; I have read so many reports on this and can't help but think that's going to be it with them -- that's why in another thread I started about picking a new BD player I wanted to eliminate Panasonic from the list. As for the BD performance, I have heard bad things about it too, and my own eyes confirm it -- not "bad" per se, but there's a "noisy, twitchy dithering" that pops up on BDs and a reviewer who did a test of the 10A complained about the same thing; it also seems to lack that "depth" and "pop" that is supposed to accompany high definition playback...

As far as BD players go, none of them (save for the Sammy 1200, Sammy 5000 combo and Denon 3800) have particularly excellent upscalers, though most of them will probably do a better job upscaling than the Panny players. If you want a really good upconverting player, I recommend the Oppo players. I own the Oppo 983 and it does an outstanding job. Granted, it's got a pretty powerful video scaler and deinterlacer, but it's worth every penny.

I just returned an Oppo 983 because I didn't care for it, either, and didn't think it was worth 400 bucks -- I decided to put the money back into a new Blu ray player that upscales at least decently and handles bitstream output of TrueHD and Master Audio.

I have considered the $2000 Denon flagship player -- is that the model you mention above? This has the Reon chip I believe and is supposed to do an awesome job upscaling DVDs...supposedly better than the Anchor Bay chip that's in the Oppo...would you recommend this player? Is it worth the 2 grand do you think? There are NO other players on the market currently that upscale that well? (Note: Please see my thread in the High Definition Hardware area about this...)

There's absolutely no way of getting the high-def audio codecs without using HDMI (or analogues, which you don't want to use). The reason for HDMI is to simplify everything. Through digital coax and digital optical, you can only get 2-channel PCM. The setup you have is correct, however your television may need to be calibrated. That's the only thing I can say. Perhaps going in and changing the brightness and sharpness settings may help.

My TV has been calibrated -- not professionally by an ISF tech but I used a setup disc and got pretty good results; surprisingly, most of the values weren't far off Sony's defaults for things like Color, Hue, Sharpness, etc.

So, the ONLY way to get 1080p AND the high resolution surround codecs is through the HDMI connection if I want them to be passed digitally, correct? Just one HDMI OUT to one HDMI IN, and then another OUT to IN...yes?

Also, how long have you had your TV? Maybe your bulb is getting old.

I don't think it's that old; from perhaps since this past November or so?

What is it about the BD picture that disappoints you so much, by the way? Different movies have different cinematography, so, for example, Blood Diamond will look very, very grainy, but the Pirates of the Caribbean movies will look very crisp and clean.

As I explained before, there's like a "noisy twitchy dithering" on the discs; plus, there's a lack of depth and three dimensionality that I see on BD demos in some stores when they're running, say, an LCD set...my player/display combo just isn't wowing me...

HDMI cables would not generally be a problem. If they are a problem, it's very, very obvious. HDMI 1.3 certified cables are somewhat of a gimmick. The only difference between them and non-1.3 certified cables are that the certified ones have been tested to handle a certain bandwith. Truth be told, ALL HDMI cables on the market now can handle 1080p/60hz with 8-channel PCM, whatever the company. You can get a cheapo monoprice cable or a top-of-the-line Straight Wire cable and both will look the same, especially when using 6- or 8-feet cables. Only when you go over 30-35 feet do you want start looking at higher-end cables. As David said, checking out Monoprice and Blue Jeans Cable is a good idea. Blue Jeans have actually made an HDMI cable that can go up to 150 feet without loosing signal! Their site is very informative and explains basically everything you need to know about HDMI.

I appreciate this information; as I said, I'm not positive what is running back there, but I AM getting picture and sound over these cables; there are no MAJOR problems to speak of aside from the poor DVD upconversion, but that's because of my player...

One last thing, what movie are you watching that disappoint you? Perhaps they've not transferred properly.

Problem discs for me so far have been Independence Day (looks HORRIBLE on my setup; there's a grainy, noisy "static-like" artifact in some scenes; it really doesn't look all that much better than the DVD)...John Carpenter's Halloween looked awful, too...parts of Resident Evil: Extinction (the dark, underground, indoor scenes are riddled with a noise and grain)...Michael Clayton looked awful to me, too...and the PIRATES films don't "leap off the screen" like I've seen them do on other setups and read about how they're supposed to...