[John-Miles]

Ok, so im looking for a new amp, ive currently got a Yamaha RXV-1300 but i am thinking of upgrading for the HDMI and High Def audio, and generally more power to run my speakers.

Right now I am leaning towards the Pioneer. As near as i can tell from the spec sheets it is the most robust of the three in terms of power output.

A far as i can tell it is the only one rated at 140 W/ch with all channels driven, the spec sheets on the other two seem to avoid stating one way or the other.

if anyone has any input on these three it would be greatly appreciated.

[Dave Moritz]

Hey John,

I am in the same boat as you right now, I am also researching a receiver to replace my current ht receiver. I currently also have a Yamaha but mine is about 11 years old (Yamaha RX-V995). While the three you have choosen are all good its a matter of what one you like the best.

Yamaha RX-V3800: MSRP $1,699.95
140 Watts per channel (20Hz - 20KHz) X 7

Denon AVR-4308: MSRP $2,499.00
140 Watts per channel (20Hz - 20KHz) X 7 All Channels Rated @ 0.05 THD

Pioneer VSX-94TXH: MSRP $1,600.00
140 Watts per channel (20Hz - 20KHz) X 7 All Channels Rated @ 0.09 THD

All three of these rating are 8 ohms.

The only way to know if any of these receivers is actually more robust or has more head room is to look deeper into the specs. Another sign IMHO is to see how much the reciever draws from the wall socket. I do like Denon but IMHO the Denon AVR-3808 may be a better buy. It has most of the same features as the 4308ci but with 10 less watts per channel. And unless the 3808ci is that lacking which I doubt. That extra 10 watts will not be noticed in terms of volume or head room, not in this case.

Believe me its not an easy choice and while my Yamaha has been good to me over the past 11 years. I am leaning towards the Denon AVR-3808ci (MSRP $1,599.00) as it seems to be the best bang for the buck. The Denon also has the Audyssey set up that can be actually upgraded to the Audyssey Pro. Pioneer Elite's MCACC does a good job but I feel the Audyssey is alot nicer. I am not sure if the 94TXH can be updated via ethernet but the Denon can be.

Now if you like the Pioneer the most by all means do not let anyone talk you out of it unless there are any serious flaws? Which I am not aware of any such things with the Elite receivers. But as far as power goes I am willing to be they are identicall to each other. There are members here that have purchased the 3808ci and have nothing but good things to say about it. I was thinking about getting the 4308ci to be honest but can not justify the extra cost. Not with what it is offering over the 3808ci, now if the 4308 would have offered a Reon HQV or Realta HQV then I might just have to get it. But it has the same Faroudja chip that most of the receivers out there are using. A few of them might be using an older chip that does not upconvert, but most of them are using the Faroudja. All three of your choices have 4 HDMI 1.3a inputs as well. So basically the only difference is features and what room correction software they use.

These are my considerations at this time, but due to the audio pop and heat issues I am not so sure about two brands at this time.

Denon AVR-3808ci
Onkyo TX-SR 875 or 905
Integra DTR- 7.8 or 8.8
Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH

At this time I am leaning towards the Denon 3808ci. Its been a very hard decision so far as I have really wanted to go with a Reon solution but the only two brands that use it. Well they seem to have a few issues that may just cause me to go with a Faroudja solution instead. And one last thing about the Denon and I am sure things could have changed but I doubt it. I was able to go to the 03' and 04' CES show in Las Vegas and the Denon demo used 4 ohm M&K speakers in a 7 channel configuration. Well at least in the 2004 show they did, I can not swear that they did a 7.1 in 2003 though. Anyway the Denon system was set up in a good size room and they pushed that receiver which I think was the 3806 at the time? Even after they pushed the receiver which did not seem to run out of steam ever run at 4ohms. The receiver did not run hot and it actually did not seem to break a sweat. I have head Pioneer Elite in peoples homes as well and they sound very good as well.

Sorry about the post going on, I hope this helps in some way?

[John-Miles]

Dave,

thanks for the input, thats a HUGE help.

I do have one major concern witht he denon though, looking at the spec sheet, it seems like the power rating was done without all channels driven.

It lists the power for the two fronts, and then the center and the surrounds and then the rears.

It gives me the implication that the testing was done with only 2 channels running at a time, and the Pioneer clearly states that their power rating is with ALL 7 channels driven at the same time.

For me as well the extra 10 watts is important, mainly because my current Yamaha is rated at 110, and ive really noticed it running out of steam since i hooked up my Paradigm Studio 60's to it. ... so basically yeah i dont want to risk not having the headroom i need you know?

[Dave Moritz]

Hey John,

I honestly do not think a company like Denon would rate there receiver with anything but all channels driven. I am as impressed with the Denon line up as I was in 2004 when I went to CES. So I have no doubt that the Denon will even drive speakers even at 4ohms. If I remember correctly the Denon actually puts out closer to advertised power than the Yamaha and Pioneer Elite. Not putting Yamaha down, they still make a very good product and there dsp modes are great for those you love dsp modes. I have a Yamaha and I basically never use the dsp modes.

You could go with the Denon AVR-3808ci that should have no problem driving your Paradigm's. Or you could consider the Onkyo TX-SR905 that uses a toroidal transformer and it puts out very close to what they advertise. Altough the Onkyo's do run hot and they have some quirks so you will want to read up on reviews and owners threads. And the Onkyo 875 and 905 both have the Reon scaler like the Integra 8.8 receiver. And you might be able to find the 905 online for close to what you would spend on the 3808ci. How ever like I said research it and check it out in person.

The best one is the one that features, specification and price best match your needs. Let us know what you end up with and how it works out for you.

[John-Miles]

I will definitely do that Dave,

Just a sort of aside, do you know any way to actually measure the power output from a receiver?

the only thing i can think of would be to use an spl meter with the same room and speakers swapped between receivers and see which is louder at a given volume. (or dB ratign as they mostly use)

[Dave Moritz]

Quote:

do you know any way to actually measure the power output from a receiver?

Sorry I have no idea how to test for actual output. The spl meter would actually give you different results depending on how efficient your speakers are.

[John-Miles]

Yeah i know thats why i was thinking of using the same speakers and everything, get ti set up in the store or something to keep everything the same but the amps.

I suppose a volt meter would work as well, across the terminals while playing something into speakers... hmmm gonna think more about this

[Robert Crawford]

My Denon 4308 has no problems driving my Paradigm Studio 100s.






Crawdaddy

[John-Miles]

Tanks for the input Robert, its good to know that cause i have been seriously thinking of upgrading my studio 60's to 100's at some point and making the 60's my surrounds

[Holadem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John-Miles

Yeah i know thats why i was thinking of using the same speakers and everything, get ti set up in the store or something to keep everything the same but the amps.

I suppose a volt meter would work as well, across the terminals while playing something into speakers... hmmm gonna think more about this

Actually I strongly I suggest you stop thinking about this . You're not gonna measure anything useful with a mere voltmeter. And I really mean no offense, but the fact that you would believe you could tells me you have no business attempting to measure anything at all in the signal path.

Where is the spec sheet of concern? I looked at this: Denon USA | AVR-4308CI but found nothing suspicious.

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H