Denon AVR-3808CI: An Overview - Page 4

WayTooSmall · 01-08-2008, 03:05 AM

I am still confused on whether to use Bitstream or PCM from my PS3 to this receiver. I have it set to Bitstream right now and I am getting 5.1 surround but the True HD decoder light is not coming on (on the front of the Denon) when I watch "The Reaping" which has dolby true HD. I thought that to let this receiver do the decoding I needed to have it set to bitstream but only the Digital light on the input signal indicators is coming on. Thanks for the input.

edit: Also, one reason I bought this receiver was the optical outputs. I use pioneer wireless headphones for some movie viewing and usually just run an optical cable from my components to the base. I am now running an optical cable from the 3808ci to the base via the 1st optical out on the back but am getting no signal. If I unplug the optical from the receiver and put it directly into the ps3, i then get a signal. Does anyone here know how I can get the optical out to work on the 3808. The light is coming out of it but no signal is being sent.

TonyD · 01-09-2008, 04:30 PM

simple qestion on denon.

i have had denon for 8 years now starting with 3300 now 3803.
soon, hopefully a 3808.

question i have is on volume display.

it is always a negative number.

usually -22 for normal listening level.

why does it start as a neg number and continue as neg even while getting louder.
and while getting louder the actual number goes lower.

now i know since it is in neg, the number getting lower means closer to zero, or larger.
so why is volume display below zero to start.

Patrick Sun · 01-09-2008, 07:31 PM

Probably not quite right, but 0 dB typically represents unity gain level for the amp's output on the receiver, so less than the amp's "full" power output is denoted with -x dB for the volume level, where x is the value of the amp's power output in terms of decibel level. So there may be positive x values (meaning you are over-driving the amp past its nominal output, and scratching toward its amp headroom limit), most of the time, the volume level will be expressed in terms of a negative decibel value.

In other words, the low-level audio signals (generated from audio channels from the HDM player) are attenuated by the volume level control from its nominal signal level. When you are at the max low-level volume level, that corresponds to a value of 0 dB, the unity gain level for the amp, that's just how it's expressed in audio engineering circles based on the logarithmic math that describes sound levels in terms of decibels.

No one in their right mind listens at the max amp level unless they are aiming for premature deafness. Any level of attenuation of the low-level audio signal is expressed as a value less than zero dB, so that's why the volume levels are typically negative dB values. So you might have volume levels that start from -72 dB and go up the way to 0 dB in increments of 2 dB as the volume level is increased, and it might also go higher, like +12 dB (depends on the amp design and its limits). An easy way to find out the highest volume dB value is to pause the DVD player, and just turn up the amp's volume control and see how high the volume value reaches, but you'll probably hear some hiss from the speakers as you max out the volume as the amp is being required to amplify anything from the signal, but some electronics may introduce the hiss at the noise floor, but some receivers have good silencing protocols to eliminate the hiss if you turn up the volume on a "blank" audio signal.

TonyD · 01-09-2008, 08:32 PM

wow, um. hmm.

i guess i'm still used to old times when volume level started at 0 and on a really good radio could go all the way up as far as 11.

the denon 3308 lowers to -80 and goes up to 1, in .5 increments.

i was talking to someone the other day about my 3803 because i'm trying to sell it and i couldnt explain in simple terms to her why the volume moves in negative numbers

it was basically, 'i don't know"

Patrick Sun · 01-09-2008, 09:47 PM

Sorry, remnants of a EE education from a few decades ago, tried to explain it in layman's terms as much as possible.

buzzfunk · 01-09-2008, 11:41 PM

Hey Guys,

Just joined the Forum. Looks like great info everywhere.

I'm thinking about making the Denon my first avr but im still wondering about something. I get the 7.1 part but is it possible to use it with a 5.1 setup for right now?

Also could someone recommend some speakers for this unit, within the $1k range.

Thanks a lot!!

joseph westcott · 01-10-2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzfunk

Hey Guys,

Just joined the Forum. Looks like great info everywhere.

I'm thinking about making the Denon my first avr but im still wondering about something. I get the 7.1 part but is it possible to use it with a 5.1 setup for right now?

Also could someone recommend some speakers for this unit, within the $1k range.

Thanks a lot!!

7.1 will support up to 7 speakers and a subwoofer. Some receivers and speakers provide support for biamping. I believe this Denon does support this. You can power two speakers with the extra two channels to double the power going to the two selected speakers, if your speakers also support this capability.

Yes, you can just use 5 speakers and a subwoofer.

MikeS · 01-10-2008, 07:42 PM

Wow! Off topic a bit but it is great to see so many familiar names still posting here. I've been out of the game for a few years after building my dream system.

The old B&K Ref 30 is still working well but I'm ready for an upgrade. I've looked for a decent pre/pro in the 2-3k range but have come up empty with all the features I want.

I too have narrowed my choices to the Dennon 3808 (or 4308), The Elite and the Yamaha. I plan on buying this weekend after completing all my research but the Denon and the Elite are tops on my list. I've never much cared for the sound of the Denon amps but I'll be keeping my MM9000 amp and my Adcom 555's so the amps in recievers are less an issue for me. I like the ability to upgrade the 3808 but I like the look of the Elite more. Since listening in a store is damn near impossible I'll just audition at home and take back the one that comes up short.

I'm also planning on dumping my Samsung HLR-6178W for the new Samsung HL-T6189. Full 1080p here I come!! I was one of the first people to buy the HLR Sammy and got screwed on no 1080p HDMI inputs.

Wish me luck! I'll report back in a week or so.

DaveF · 01-11-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyD

wow, um. hmm.

i guess i'm still used to old times when volume level started at 0 and on a really good radio could go all the way up as far as 11.

the denon 3308 lowers to -80 and goes up to 1, in .5 increments.

i was talking to someone the other day about my 3803 because i'm trying to sell it and i couldnt explain in simple terms to her why the volume moves in negative numbers

it was basically, 'i don't know"

To paraphrase Patrick, it's a geeky way of displaying volume. "0" is set at some arbitrary volume and negative values (-10 dB, etc) are lower volumes than that, meaning the volume has been attentuated (reduced) by that many dB.

Frankly, it's a display either designed by marketing wizards who think geeks are more likely to buy a "dB" display, or it was created by engineers with too little contact with the real world (I say that as an engineer). It's a silly way to show volume for a consumer electronics device. But some companies do it anyway (and I suppose some consumers think it makes them smarter and have better audio to dial in dB than arbitrary units).

Me, I want my volume to adjust in a base-Pi system.

And I was really excited to learn about this receiver until I found it was $1500. I wish that had been noted in Ron's initial overview. That would have saved me the heartbreak of getting revved up for a purchase and then finding it's out of my budget.