Why all amps and receivers aren't the same. - Page 2

Arthur S · 09-28-2006, 10:59 AM

Seth

Tubes are well regarded because they produce euphonic harmonic distortion that is pleasing to the ear. Probably even-order harmonics. They also are much more sensitive to impedance variations during the interactions between speaker and amp. Transistor amps generally produce more odd-order harmonics that are not as pleasant to the ear. So, tubes may sound sweet, umm, because they are. That is not the same as identical to the original source.

If I was really interested in tubes, I would look for a used Sunfire amp. Some of them have a switch which has a voltage position for tube sound, and a current position for the more accurate, but different sounding solid state sound.

Seth=L · 09-28-2006, 11:06 AM

I understand now, thank you Jeremy.

I am now remembering this stuff from Physics. So if a stereo amplifier is rated to output 100 watts per channel 8ohms, and has an input of 700 watts or 5.8 amps. then it is reasonable to assume the amplifier can handle speakers with 4ohms and output 200 watts per channel?

Seth=L · 09-28-2006, 11:09 AM

I have heard that the Sunfire amps had a tube like sound. Maybe this is why their subs aren't that great. I know the tube amps don't repoduce accurate sound, at least to the source, but regardless they do sound beautifull.

I think if, I remember correctly the singel ended triode amps are one of the most difficult to integrate amplifiers out there, and the maintanance on those things is unbeleivable. If you have a High End turntable and cartridge with it, you may as well just quit your job to maintain the setup.

JeremyErwin · 09-28-2006, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth=L

I understand now, thank you Jeremy.

I am now remembering this stuff from Physics. So if a stereo amplifier is rated to output 100 watts per channel 8ohms, and has an input of 700 watts or 5.8 amps. then it is reasonable to assume the amplifier can handle speakers with 4ohms and output 200 watts per channel?

Depends on the class of amplifier. If it's class A, the theoretical efficiency is 50%...

Seth=L · 09-28-2006, 02:52 PM

I will have to do a study on different classes of amplifiers.

I was doing some test listening today and found that my Infinity IL10 bookshelf speakers can handle about 30 watts on extended continuance. The suitable amplifier range is 15-150 watts per speaker. So that likely means the stats would say the have a music handling of around 80-100. So it would seem even speaker power ratings are bloated.

Arthur S · 09-28-2006, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth=L

I have heard that the Sunfire amps had a tube like sound. Maybe this is why their subs aren't that great. I know the tube amps don't repoduce accurate sound, at least to the source, but regardless they do sound beautifull.

I think if, I remember correctly the singel ended triode amps are one of the most difficult to integrate amplifiers out there, and the maintanance on those things is unbeleivable. If you have a High End turntable and cartridge with it, you may as well just quit your job to maintain the setup.

Correct

Maintenance on tube equipment is a pain, not to mention bias adjustment, tube harmonics, etc. That is why the Sunfires with the 2 position switch, for tube sound, or solid state sound, are a good way to go for anyone who wants to dally in tube and still have solid state, all at the flick of a switch. I would not make any generalizations about Sunfire amps. One thing I will say is that the Cinema Grands are some of the highest powered, coolest running, lightest amps anywhere, and for this reason, they are used at Audio Shows to demo some pretty good HT systems. 5-7 channels X 200 watts (much more into 4 ohms), and less than 47 pounds. They are killer for HT use.

Seth=L · 09-28-2006, 04:20 PM

My dad has one, and it does pack a serious punch and it mellows down his Klipsch speakers as well. I think the reason they are so light is they don't have a power transformer and use the AC current dirrectly as their subwoofers do.

Arthur S · 09-28-2006, 04:53 PM

I think they do have a power transformer, but it does not have to be a large one. That is one reason they are so light. The other reason they are so light is because they do not have to have heat sinking, because they are a variation on switching amps. In fact there are not even any cooling slots on the top of the amps! Think Bash, think Panasonic 10 pound receivers, like XR57, and the like.

Your dad knows what he is doing!

JeremyErwin · 09-28-2006, 06:11 PM

I came across this website the other day. Just though you might get a kick out it.

Quote:

3) Want Even Less Heat. Pull Out Half the Tubes!
Switch to summer mode! Removing 8 tubes cuts the idle heat down to about 185 watts per channel. That's the same as a T16 monoblock. Power output will be reduced to 65 watts into 8 ohms and 40 watts into 4 ohms. These lower levels are perfectly adequate for the vast majority of applications and you end up with a 100% compliment of spare tubes. Removing 4 tubes cuts the heat by 20% and the amp will make 115 watts into 8 ohms and 75 watts into 4 ohms. It's literally an amp for all seasons.

I guess this means that for your long winter listening sessions, you can turn off that rackety furnace, and just enjoy the warm sound.

Chu Gai · 09-29-2006, 06:34 AM

If you want to mimic what Carver did with the 'tube sound', add something like a 4 ohm high power resistor to your speaker wires and listen to the difference.

Seth=L · 09-29-2006, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyErwin

I guess this means that for your long winter listening sessions, you can turn off that rackety furnace, and just enjoy the warm sound.

Pun intended.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chu Gai

If you want to mimic what Carver did with the 'tube sound', add something like a 4 ohm high power resistor to your speaker wires and listen to the difference.

Would that be hard on my amp?

Seth=L · 09-29-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthur S

I think they do have a power transformer, but it does not have to be a large one. That is one reason they are so light. The other reason they are so light is because they do not have to have heat sinking, because they are a variation on switching amps. In fact there are not even any cooling slots on the top of the amps! Think Bash, think Panasonic 10 pound receivers, like XR57, and the like.

Your dad knows what he is doing!

Touché Arthur.

Here is a picture of the Cinema Grand:

Here is a picture of the Cinema Grand Signature: